Has Scott Walker been recalled yet?

[miws]

Only in your mind…only yours. Did you have something to add or was this just another “forgot my meds moment”? If you don’t like the politics… go to the pets forum or something

Wow.

Just wow.

Talk about needing meds……

Mike

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[JanS]

lol..Mike, I was going to let it slide…it speaks for itself..

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[miws]

Yeah, I find it kinda hard to let some of these slide, though….. ;-)

*Extends hand*

Here, JaN, let’s head over to the Pets Forum, and look at all the pics of the cute, (but sadly) lost puppies and kitties…. :-)

Mike

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[DBP]

Here’s a current collection of Seattle Times pieces on the Wisconsin recall election:

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/uwelectioneye/?from-stvn2

If you’re one of those who think it’s ignoble to talk about people, then move on.

Otherwise, DIG IN!

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[kootchman]

Back to topic….. it seems when given the CHOICE to belong to the union…not forced to by the power of a state government… members leave in droves.

The American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees (AFSCME) has lost more than 34,000 Wisconsin members, bringing their number in the state down to 28,745 from a height of 62,818 in March 2011.

National union leaders worry that a national extrapolation of Wisconsin’s trend would spell doom for organized labor.

Union leaders in Wisconsin blame several provisions of the law for the decline in membership, particularly the elimination of automatic union-dues collection. With public employees now able to opt out of paying union dues, many are electing to do just that, and the unions are cutting them loose as a result.

The only way unions can stay in power is government collusion. I bet you at least 8 more states either go right to work states, os tell unions that their membership loyalty is not up to the government. Just like any other non=profit or voluntary association.. dues are for the union to collect… not the taxpayers problem. Imagine, OVER 50 per cent left the union in 5 months…..

Read more on Newsmax.com: Wisconsin Public Employee Unions Losing Steam

Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama’s Re-Election? Vote Here Now!

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[kootchman]

Back to topic….. it seems when given the CHOICE to belong to the union…not forced to by the power of a state government… members leave in droves.

The American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees (AFSCME) has lost more than 34,000 Wisconsin members, bringing their number in the state down to 28,745 from a height of 62,818 in March 2011.

National union leaders worry that a national extrapolation of Wisconsin’s trend would spell doom for organized labor.

Union leaders in Wisconsin blame several provisions of the law for the decline in membership, particularly the elimination of automatic union-dues collection. With public employees now able to opt out of paying union dues, many are electing to do just that, and the unions are cutting them loose as a result.

The only way unions can stay in power is government collusion. I bet you at least 8 more states either go right to work states, os tell unions that their membership loyalty is not up to the government. Just like any other non=profit or voluntary association.. dues are for the union to collect… not the taxpayers problem. Imagine, OVER 50 per cent left the union in 5 months…..

Guess that’s 34,000 who will vote for Walker,… embarassing for the unions though.. imagine, half of your members preferring to dump you.

Read more on Newsmax.com: Wisconsin Public Employee Unions Losing Steam

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[JoB]

kootch..

most people won’t pay union dues to a union that has no bargaining power

that doesn’t mean that they won’t choose to join a union that does

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[kootchman]

DBP may be right though… WI found that they CAN balance a budget, CAN add more funding to schools, CAN provide chid healthcare, if they change the culture. States exist for the benefit of the society at large… it’s not a pinata’ for labor to exploit. They have bargaining power.. it has limits though. You did note that the didn’t even wait until the results of the recall came in? No, they jumped ship as soon as it was legal to do it. They were forced to join. If states are the little incubators, and the results in WI are a model, yep… Republican governors will take heed and encouragement. WA will go the road of NY, IL. CA and tax everything they can possibly think is taxable, and in the end, without controlling labor costs…. well just watch. I see Airbus is negotiating to build a new 320 plant in the USA….Washington never got a look. It’s going to be SC or GA….no one will open new plants in states with the voracious need to tax workers, companies, etc…..

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[miws]

States (and government in general) exist for the benefit of the society at large… it’s not a pinata’ for big business, and the mega wealthy, to exploit

Fixed That For You.

Mike

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[JoB]

kootch..

it is true that if a shop is a union shop,

then workers will have to join to receive the benefits of the negotiations made on their behalf.

it is also true that if all the workers in a shop are not union,

the union has less bargaining power when it comes to negotiating wages and benefits for workers.

the choice is simple

join and receive the benefits

or don’t join.. and you are on your own

When Scott walker removed the benefits of public union membership in Wisconsin

of course people dropped out

they were in it for the benefits

and if the benefits return

the advantages will once again outweigh the disadvantages

and they will rejoin their unions…

voluntarily

it appears that abortion isn’t the only platform on which you are anti-choice

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[kootchman]

He didn’t remove the benefits. No matter how many times you say it it isn’t true. Have you even bothered to look at what was passed… couple days ago you said they were no minimum wage jobs…you have read nothing would be my suspicion…cause you are making blatantly false assertions. He restricted administrative and legislative raises to NO more than inflation. Second, He asked unions to pay 12% into their retirement account. Private citizens look at that and wish they had that deal. Now, if the unions are doing a cracker jack job, and the citizens believe they deserve a raise… they can get more.. if the taxpayer approves. Sort of puts the voice back in the bosses corner.. the people who pay the taxes. Funny, who vociferously the left attacks fiscal discipline… you won’t be content until we all look like Ill>?,,, then what? where do the sugar cookies come from then? Now they owned their own insurance company and charged the bargaining units of government twice what was availalbe. No one shut down the union owned insurance company, they just made them put their offer on the table along with any other competitive bids. Those are not draconian measures. The end result is the budget is balanced, there is a surplus for emergencies, and the state now has a sterling bond rating. Compare that to Illinois, NY, or CA…. basket cases. I am anti-choice.. I AM antigendercide, and I believe anyone can choose not to get pregnant. Those are good choices. … but those are sideshow issues..for states and communities to decide…but we have no more business subsidizing PP than we do Solyndra or Cargill, or anyone else.. jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs…..

JoB.. 50% of the members fled the union.. before the recall has even occurred and when the state doesn’t do the dues collection for the union….. seems no one values them enough to stay. No one forces me to pay for Animal Rescue.. but I do it automatically, every month, right out of the checking account. because I see value in what they do. Simple to set up. More unions will fall. They have to..they are breaking the states and cutting into essential services. Hell they dropped out so quick, so fast, they couldn’t even support their recall budget objectives.

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[JoB]

kootch..

yes i did look at what was actually passed

and it did severely restrict the bargaining power of public unions

times are tight.

choosing not to pay for benefits you are no longer getting is not a political statement kootch.

it’s an economic statement.

one Republicans have chosen to ignore.

as for your second little bomb…

“I AM antigendercide, and I believe anyone can choose not to get pregnant”

Indeed

I am personally offended by that remark.

Any woman who has been raped or been the victim of incest would be..

and i am both

Nor do i fail to see the hypocrisy of limiting access to the options women have to prevent birth

and then holding her solely accountable for birth prevention.

Kootch.. you can’t walk the walk

and not just because you aren’t a woman.

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[kootchman]

See you take a small small small portion of the industry of voluntary life termination and “rape and incest” becomes the standard of objection. You can’t make room in absolutism for exceptions? I can. BUT you declare that republicans declare war on women and give PP a pass on termination, after 20 weeks, for scraping the uterus clean .. for the sole justification that it was a female.. what did you call them… “potentials”? That IS gendercide.. EVEN PP FIRED the zealot they admit it was wrong and Texas PP has a statewide retraining underway. You are indignant that I don’t think it’s my job to have to pay the BC costs on demand well JoB who IS responsible for conception then? The taxpayer? Remember the PP slogan “My Body”… well who is going to guard it if you won’t. I have no objection to R and I terminations.. but gender preference? That’s not a war on women? Gender does not confer deep wisdom. It’s just gender. Men are held accountable, but they don’t have a uterus… they are held financially accountable, when they can be found or have the resources. But … no galoshes, no BC….? No nooky. we are talking about gender preference, a diversion to R and I is just a diversion.

Times are tight? Their economic condition didn’t change JoB…nothing was taken away. There was no roll back in pay or compensation. Ahhhhh they have to pay 12 per cent of their own retirement… how tragic. The taxpayer generally has to pay 50% of theirs… under good plans. Unions have done what they did in the private sector… they overplayed their hand. FINALLY the bosses get to sit at the table to negotiate.. they have a recall election underway. Like I said, their is a limit, and sinking the good ship Party Barge with excess is the limit.

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[JoB]

kootch..

thanks to your republican brethern…

female soldiers in the US military who are raped and become pregnant can not receive abortions in military hospitals.

it seems that exceptions for rape are not made even for our female soldiers defending their country overseas…

btw Kootch..

the rape stats for our female soldiers are definately not trivial.

nor is your offensiveness on this subject.

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[kootchman]

No rape is not trivial, soldiers, sailors, Marins, republicans, democrats, .. anyone. However, the issue at hand, despite the diversionary attempts, was, your vaunted group, PP, will upon demand, conduct gender biased abortions. That has been confirmed, it’s on tape. These are things we expect in the most primitive of cultures. I goes to the heart of total embrace with no critique. Should I draw by inference then, that you support valuation of life by gender preference? Or,, can you find the lines of distinction? Second there are no limits to access to birth control. 7-11 will be glad to dispense to any young couple the requisite barrier method. Should it be more than a casual, impulsive judgement, one can get birth control at many locations in King County. You raise red herrings that don’t exist. Five card monty anyone?

Here is the current law.

“But by 1996 the Republican-controlled Congress had instituted the current blanket ban on abortions at military facilities, allowing them only in cases of rape or incest, or to save the life of the mother.” Some women are indeed transferred out of the battle zone to more appropriate military hospitals, or even civilian hospitals where attending physicians do not feel a field hospital tent is the appropriate place.

So again, you speak a complete falsehood. Zealotry is not conducive to sharing the microphone. They ARE allowed for rape, incest, and live of the mother. Citing Mother Jones again?

Gender infanticide in not a custom we should bring back from our exposure in places like China, India, Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan et al. It seems you are wrong again. Simple question, JoB do you condone termination of life brcause the life is female.? That is an all out war on women…and that didn;t come from republicans. when you skydive…. ya bring a parachute or you don;t jump.

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[JanS]

yes, it’s an opinion piece…would you call her a liar?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/planned-parenthood-does-not-support-sex-selection-abortion/2012/06/04/gJQAKHTVEV_story.html

having said that, I suppose you could say that all doctors who perform abortions support gender based abortion, because I’m betting that they don’t ask why the woman wants an abortion, so it probably happens.

Of course we don’t support gender based abortions. I haven’t seen the videos…but PP doesn’t ask why you’re gonna have an abortion either…that’s entirely the womans prerogative, now, isn’t it? Sure , it’s wrong, but I’m sure it happens…everywhere, not just Planned Parenthood. But this sure is easy to lambast Planned Parenthood by the Bill O’Reilly’s and Laura Ingraham’s of the world…feeds right into their Fox “News”, doesn’t it?

In a convoluted way, a law against this would be government interfering in private lives,wouldn’t it? And don’t you always say gov’t. is too big, and should get out of our private lives? Oh, did I just hear you say ” Not in all cases”?

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[JanS]

and the fact that the House voted to not pass the bill on gender abortion does not mean that House Dems support gender based abortions as some more conservative rags are saying (and comments form right wingers saying all Dems are Satan, etc)…it means that it was a bad bill, and probably tried to do too much. Rewrite and try again…

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[kootchman]

So, then I assume that tacitly at least, the right to abortion is not absolute? You can find some lines afterall. That’s good. It’s progress. I also said, as life progresses, and as the Supreme Court has ruled, the state’s interest becomes more compelling. The states interest is more at 22 weeks than at moment of conception. Just as the state says it has an interest in your life should someone try to take it. Conservative news did not create the story, they merely reported it. PP procedures and conhseling on how to skirt the law and deceive Medicaire was the story. what was the old banner on the NY Times? All the news that’s fit to print? Now it’s “just the news the reflects favorably on liberal causes.. and nothing else.”

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[JoB]

kootch…

“your vaunted group, PP, will upon demand, conduct gender biased abortions. That has been confirmed, it’s on tape.”

well, no…

you leave out the part where several attempts were made to find a planned parenthood staff person who would speak with someone about a gender based abortion failed.

you leave out the part where no abortion was performed.

you leave out the part where that staffperson was fired for incompetence.

you also leave out the part where you justify denying the women who serve in our military abortions after rape because you have a vendetta against planned parenthood

and the part where you justify depriving women of basic health care and cancer screening because you have a vendetta against planned parenthood

you leave out the part where bully tactics to eliminate funding for a legal procedure are harming women who depend upon the other services that organization provides for their very lives…

you left all of that out

in your haste to “prove” your point.

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[JoB]

kootch..

“”But by 1996 the Republican-controlled Congress had instituted the current blanket ban on abortions at military facilities, allowing them only in cases of rape or incest, or to save the life of the mother.” Some women are indeed transferred out of the battle zone to more appropriate military hospitals, or even civilian hospitals where attending physicians do not feel a field hospital tent is the appropriate place.”

again.. you left out the part where the law and practice don’t meet.

you left out the part where rape affects roughly 1/3 of women who serve overseas in our military

oh.. and the part where the majority of those rapes are perpetrated by fellow servicemen

you left out the part where military hospitals don’t provide abortion services for those servicewomen.

you left out the part about who pays for that abortion when a woman asks to be turfed stateside to get an abortion at a civilian facility

you left out the part about what that does to the servicewoman’s career

you left out a lot

in your haste to prove your point.

tell me kootch…

do you even know any servicewomen?

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[JoB]

kootch..

“So, then I assume that tacitly at least, the right to abortion is not absolute? You can find some lines afterall. That’s good. It’s progress.”

no….

you can assume we support the right to choice

since the woman seeking the abortion is the one who will be assuming the financial, moral and legal responsibility for the fetus she carries should it come to term

she should get to make her own choices based on her own criteria.

you don’t get to decide for her kootch

regardless of whether or not you approve of her criteria or her decision

neither do i

god knows, I don’t approve of many of the conclusions you post here..

and you give us full access to your criteria…

when you are ready to let anyone else make life decisions for you based on their personal moral beliefs

we can talk again about making life decisions for women about their pregnancies.

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[kootchman]

I think you are full of BS frankly that 1/3 of deployed women are raped. It happens, but 33 per cent? I can’t find that stat on integrated naval commands, army field units, … Marines don’t forward deploy women… I served with women JoB… you have served where? Your direct experience is ? A conversation with? There are 200,000 women serving… 2009

That year there were 2,974 cases of rape and sexual assault across the services. And of those, only 292 cases resulted in a military trial. And IF there is a pregnancy.. by rape, they can receive an abortion at a military hospital. RU 238 is given upon request.

Distracting again…ya got that five card monty thing down pat… PP got caught aiding medicare fraud, and assisting in gender based life termination, It happened, PP fired people when it was exposed, admitted it, and are re-training their clinics… you are the only one denying it. The intricacies of how to do were not made up on the fly.. the poser was given an unhesitating “how to” by the PP nurse. Some didn’t… some did. As long as PP provides federal funds for abortion.. they are going to be under assault. Public money, public scrutiny and public protest are acceptable. If they want to keep federal funding,… stop providing abortion services so they may continue to offer all their other services. You are going to lose ALL PP funding.. the polls now show 53 per cent of voting age Americans oppose federal funding of elective abortions.

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[JoB]

kootch…

blather on if it makes you feel better…

but be aware that it is blather.

i am not going to go looking for the stats on rape within the military kootch because i am pretty sure they came from a source that you would immediately dismiss…

a women’s publication.

but then.. the fact that you would dismiss any source that came from women really is the point..

isn’t it?

funny thing.. when i want to know about women’s issues.. i look for sources that are actually concerned about women’s issues..

you look to sources that have a vested interest in not reporting women’s issues accurately

kind of like congressional hearings on abortion rights that exclude women…

I re-posted a wonderful graphic on facebook today

a pic of a woman doing a self breast exam

giving thanks for those who care so much about the right to life that they deny women early cancer screening…

i won’t bother finding it to post here

since women’s health is clearly irrelevant to you.

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[Smitty]

Walker retains his seat.

Let the excuses begin………….

Spin, baby, spin………..disco inferno……spin, baby, spin…..

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[clark5080]

pretty convincing too 15 points as it stands now

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[Author]

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