Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Ex-Gang Member Reaches Out to Local Youth
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March 19, 2012 at 8:09 pm #750990
DBPMemberNo. I certainly don’t mind if Carlos Garza tells people about how he found God.
But there’s a big difference between telling someone that YOU found God and asking them to bow their heads and pray along with you.
This is why many people object to religious invocations at school ceremonies: not because an invocation would be an expression of any one person’s faith, but rather because it would be an expression of everyone’s faith. Which it is not.
Another example:
When Mormons come to my house, I’m always happy to sit with them and discuss their beliefs — as long as I have nothing better to do. But I always draw the line when they ask me to kneel and “ask Jesus to come into my heart.”
Why? Because that would be “begging the question” or assuming as proven that which was to be determined by argument. Namely: Does God exist?
See the difference there?
March 19, 2012 at 9:46 pm #750991
JVMemberYour point makes sense, and I mostly agree.
Most people are okay with those types of general prayers when they are directed at a generic, “God” rather than the specific name (Jesus, Buddha, Allah, Al Gore, etc.)
Different people worship different things, and recognizing that fact together in a non-specific manner can be a uniting force.
March 19, 2012 at 11:05 pm #750992
JanSParticipantI think I’m with DBP on the God issue. I have always felt that what I believe is private, and I would not expect anyone ever to assume that I need to “find Jesus” as they did. That said, I’m glad this event had a mostly positive outcome.The message that Mr. Garza has needs to be brought to the public.
March 20, 2012 at 2:52 am #750993
DBurnsParticipantThanks for the offer, DBP, I was teasing about the beer :) I appreciate any event that will bring my teenagers together with me on a Friday night.
I thought I was right on time for 6pm, but I guess as the food gathering wrapped up, they started a bit before 6 – I got there as the first young teen was telling his story so I missed the prayer! I would have been okay myself with it but I totally agree about representation and being sensitive to others beliefs/non-beliefs – and I do think it is a topic to be “cleared up” with the event organizers. The room was an AA room and there were religious references prominently posted so perhaps Mr. Garza felt free to pray there – I am sure that he could have also been asked to re-word the opening so that he didn’t “ask” people to join?
BUT I did hear the homophobic comments loud and clear and just took the opportunity to chat with my daughter about that at Viva afterward – she is mixed and knows a whole lot about ignorance and that people’s own experiences lead them to their judgments and clearly Mr. Garza had his own regarding this. But he was as real as they come so I am certain that his words are from the heart and not meant to offend. Again, I thought the event was a valuable one, and I would actually say wholly positive.
March 20, 2012 at 5:37 pm #750994
acemotelParticipantWe have had this discussion at my own home, when some atheist family members take offense at some Christian ones who want to pray before the meal at Thanksgiving. I think it’s small-minded to make an issue of it, and yes, I was there at this event. If someone (including me) does not want to pray, it’s easy enough to opt out. I find the attitude of objecting to prayer to be just as rigid and intolerant as the thinking of those who would have us all on the Christian bandwagon (moral [sic] majority) As long as it’s not a REQUIREMENT, why not be accepting?
March 20, 2012 at 11:13 pm #750995
JVMemberGreat point Ace…too bad tolerance doesn’t flow in both directions.
March 20, 2012 at 11:34 pm #750996
DBPMemberACE: Thanks for coming to the meeting. I hope you liked the food . . . but . . . did you read ANYTHING that I just said?
Once again, for the record . . .
I DON’T object to people praying to anyone or any thing they want.
BY THEMSELVES.
I DO object to people who have been invited to speak at a public meeting — a meeting where there may be (a) atheists, (b) Muslims, (c) Jews, (d) other — being asked/told to join with them as they pray to “our Lord Jesus.”
Can someone please explain to me what’s intolerant about not wanting to be invited to chant someone else’s creed?
March 20, 2012 at 11:58 pm #750997
acemotelParticipantDBP: I read EVERYTHING you write, and I always like your thoughts, comments and photos, and especially your sense of humor. I think we have a difference of opinion here. We have been over this in my family a million times, and no, we just have to agree to disagree. I, personally, am OK if anyone wants to pray to Mohammed, Buddha, or Jesus (or anyone else) in my presence, as long as I am not REQUIRED to join in. And I will respect their ‘sacred’ moment. I understand this makes some other people very uncomfortable. There is not an easy answer to this issue, and it’s not an argument that can be ‘won.’ Because people often have very strong opinions in matters of faith, and the discussion often therefore veers to the emotional.
March 21, 2012 at 6:24 am #750998
HarmonicParticipantYouthism –
A 17 year old catholic raised girl took offense to the “Our Father” being said before cross country meets when in high school and “opted out”. Yet said it every mass on Sunday….
Maybe we all have some great knowledge at 17, eh? :)
And yes that was me.
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