READER REPORT: Another new all-way stop in West Seattle – 45th/Spokane

This intersection change, unlike 59th/Admiral, was not accompanied by an SDOT announcement – so thank you to the person who just texted that photo and the news: 45th and Spokane, on the southeast end of the Madison Middle School campus, has been converted to an all-way stop. The texter says this follows two years of advocacy by parent Stephanie Kimball and will have a “huge” effect on “start/end of school chaos.” The intersection also has seen failure-to-yield crashes over the years, like this one.

Alki resident #3 September 1, 2017 (11:59 am)

Good to know. Thanks for the heads up.

Mark September 1, 2017 (12:17 pm)

In the past Stop Signs in Seattle were used where appropriate that led to driver respect. With proliferation of unwarranted signage lower motorist respect will occur and this reduces safety.

Jort Sandwich September 1, 2017 (1:23 pm)

Well, I guess that depends on your definition of “unwarranted.” SDOT must have felt the stop signs were warranted, since there have been several “failure-to-yield” crashes at this intersection. One way to reduce the number of “failure-to-yield” collisions is to install a 4-way stop sign at an intersection, kind of like what SDOT did here.

Motorists don’t get to decide where to place traffic control devices based on some ambiguous, undefined “respect level.” There is no rating system that street engineers use to determine the level of “respect” that a proposed change would create.

Mark, you have clearly and unambiguously advocated against stop signs, lower speed limits, lane reductions, or essentially any traffic engineering designed to slow down or otherwise de-prioritize automobiles on our streets.

Thankfully, a fresh generation of traffic engineers are looking at the overall safety of our city’s residents when they design our streets — and not just at how to get as many cars through a street as quickly as possible, no matter the consequence to human safety. I could not be more happy with this change in mindset.
- spooled September 1, 2017 (4:56 pm)
  
  I support Mark, for all the reasons you so clearly highlighted. Roads are for moving vehicles and freight as a primary use. Non-motorized users need to yield to traffic (driver’s should also avoid being deliberate jerks), behave in an alert and predictable manner, and cross when/where safe to do so while staying aware of vehicle traffic. It’s pretty simple to share the road with cars, motorcycles, other pedestrians, even cyclists. Watch your own backside and always assume the other person isn’t looking / can’t see you / isn’t going to stop.
- ellipses September 2, 2017 (10:39 am)
  
  Jort thank you for so eloquently describing this. +1
Mike September 1, 2017 (1:32 pm)

This is a pretty major intersection with a very wide road right at the corner of a school. Before the sign, people would race through the intersection and I saw many near misses with cars and pedestrians. This intersection needed the new stop signs, they need to do the same on Hinds.

polkaboy September 1, 2017 (1:11 pm)

it’ll be interesting to see the effect this has on traffic flow during pickup and drop off. Higher volumes of cars, a 4 way stop, a general lack of courtesy, patience, knowledge of the rules of the road…should be fun to watch.

Jort Sandwich September 1, 2017 (1:13 pm)

Awesome! More safety improvements that make it easier and safer for people walking!

C September 1, 2017 (1:36 pm)

Thank You Thank You Thank You! I often wonder every summer how many car/bike tourists get in accidents because they don’t understand our silly ” no stop or yield ” sign intersections w/out a round-about.

ps September 1, 2017 (2:02 pm)

This has no flags/warning and the first day it was up I almost ran the stop sign because I had no clue it was being implemented. I wonder how many folks will do the same. Normally when a traffic pattern is changed, you flag it or leave the signs up and covered for a few days so drivers familiar with the intersection are aware of the change. Is this not common practice in Seattle?

cjboffoli September 1, 2017 (2:27 pm)

Personally, I look for stop signs whenever I approach intersections. They’re big, red and octagonal so they’re very distinctive. I find that paying attention servers me better than stopping based on habit or memory.
- ps September 1, 2017 (5:02 pm)
  
  I’m sure paying attention has servered you well through many a stop signs installed on your street in the middle of the night with no prior notification. Maybe a quick spell check before making condescending comments? It will serve you better.
  
  There is a reason why flag and/or traffic revision signage is common practice–it may even be a requirement. It’s a safety issue that SDoT may have ignored. Point taken about paying attention while driving. Note that I said I almost ran it. Keyword: almost. I’m just surprised SDoT isn’t required to give notice or place signage when altering traffic patterns.
Mary September 1, 2017 (3:28 pm)

What cjboffoli said.
Maria September 1, 2017 (6:28 pm)

Came upon this yesterday and saw the signs very easily from a distance even though I’ve been driving by the school on Spokane for many years. Yes, traffic revision signs would have been nice, but certainly no reason anyone shouldn’t see this unless they are not being attentive. These are residential streets — no arterial, we should always be scanning for pedestrians in neighborhoods.

Jeff September 1, 2017 (2:07 pm)

I noticed just this morning that 51st and Dakota (the NW corner of Genesee Hill Elementary) is also a new 4 way stop. Seems like a great addition to me.

Chemist September 1, 2017 (2:07 pm)

This was a conversion of a 2 way stop (with stop signs halting 45th) to a 4 way stop.

Greg September 1, 2017 (2:15 pm)

This actually makes sense, especially since the existing stop signs were on the more heavily trafficked 45th and not Spokane. The sidewalks were repainted at the intersection also so all looks ready for school. Hopefully the signage will alleviate the free-for-all that happens in the morning and afternoon with school drop-offs and pick ups.

Cardriver September 1, 2017 (3:21 pm)

Several years ago the Seattle Times did a story on an emphasis patrol they did around schools because of demands from parents about their kid’s safety. The really funny part of the story was that 75% of the tickets they handed out were to parents dropping off or coming to pick up their kids.

WSB September 1, 2017 (3:28 pm)

And that’s what police say every time somebody requests enforcement for their neighborhood because they’re sure “outsiders” are coming in and disregarding the law … the majority of tickets, they reply, tend to go to neighbors. Speaking of tickets, I’m posting a photo separately in a moment … two people kindly let us know that SPD was out at the new 59th/Admiral all-way stop today, enforcing. – TR

Cardriver September 1, 2017 (3:24 pm)

Well I gotta ask. If stop signs are the magic bullet for no accident’s will someone start an initiative drive to do away with arterials and make EVERY intersection a 4 way stop.

Mark September 1, 2017 (4:23 pm)

Jort

There are national criteria as outlined in the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, MUTCD. This is the resource I reference.

I question SDoT based on the criteria as set forth in the MUTCD. And you never did provide reference of the other data source you claim to have seen, Admiral at 59th.

Traffic safety is achieved through proper Engineering, signage in itself is not effective.

AdmiralRob September 1, 2017 (6:51 pm)

Next thing to deal with at Madison are the parents that just stop in the middle of the road on 45th during pickup. Sitting their until their kids come out to the car… forcing other parents to go around. Unreal!!!

Park your car like a normal person, you are not that special.

TreeHouse September 2, 2017 (7:54 am)

I welcome this addition. The traffic engineers at SDOT might know a little more about traffic engineering than the average citizen. Comparing present day choices to traffic decisions 20 years isn’t comparable as new information and education about this has changed. Thanks SDOT for making us and our loved ones a little safer.

Don Brubeck September 2, 2017 (8:32 am)

It is great to see improvements like this to create safe routes to school. When more parents and kids can walk to school, there will be less kids delivered to school by car. That is good for the kids and good for the people who just need to drive or ride bikes through the area.

Sorry, comment time is over.