Cigar lounges? West Seattle’s state senator voices concern

Potentially of interest, since there’s at least one tobacco shop open in West Seattle and one on the way – a bill allowing such establishments to apply for cigar-lounge licenses is halfway through the State Legislature. Sen. Sharon Nelson (D-34th District), who represents an area including West Seattle/White Center, is upset about SB 5542, according to a news release we received – read on:

Legislation paving the way for the reopening of cigar lounges across the state passed the Senate Floor today, but not before receiving strong opposition from Sen. Sharon Nelson, D- Maury Island, and other progressive legislators, who say the legislation poses a public health risk to workers and will end up costing the state millions from healthcare expenses.

“Workers should never have to choose between making a decent living and staying healthy, but this bill forces them to do just that,” Nelson said. “Forcing employees to work in an atmosphere filled with cigar smoke is not only immoral, but extremely costly to taxpayers, who may have to foot the bill for workers’ medical costs associated with second-hand smoke exposure.”

Senate Bill 5542 would allow tobacco shops to apply for a special cigar lounge with the Liquor Control Board.

“In 2005, 63 percent of Washingtonians approved Initiative 901 that prohibits smoking in public places,” Nelson added. “The voters have been clear about where they stand this issue, and this bill undermines their will.”

The legislation now moves to the House of Representatives for further consideration.

33 Replies to "Cigar lounges? West Seattle's state senator voices concern"

  • foy boy May 17, 2011 (3:07 pm)

    If they are so worried about second hand smoke for workers, then why does this state turn a blind eye to the new pot smoking lounges that are popping up? I’m sure the workers there are not also sick. In white center there is a new pot house that sells pot but also lets you sit down roll up a dubbie and smoke away. Here is a product that is still ileagle federaly but you can smoke in a work place but cigs are leagle but god forbid you lite up. What gives ?

  • Not_So_New_Now May 17, 2011 (3:13 pm)

    Ummmmm. This is my issue with the opposition. IT’S A CIGAR LOUNGE. It’s like saying strip clubs should be illegal because non-stripping employees shouldn’t have to be subjected to nudity.

  • Mookie May 17, 2011 (3:37 pm)

    As far as I know, the place opening in the junction is a store, not a “lounge” and there will be no smoking on the premises.

  • Jim May 17, 2011 (3:40 pm)

    Why is the legislature spending time on a bill like this during an overtime session?

  • Alki Observer May 17, 2011 (3:42 pm)

    If the bill doesn’t force potential workers to apply for and then work in the cigar lounge, Senator Nelson’s claims of immorality are baseless. Not any more than anyone would be forced to go into the lounges. Its a free country after all, isn’t it?

  • foy boy May 17, 2011 (3:55 pm)

    Alki Obsever, Great point. Mookie, with any luck someday I’m sure they would like to open a lounge. But Alki, like someone asked me was how many new freedoms has the goverment givein us? Compare to how many have been taken away. But for now if you want smoke in public lounge you have to go to your local pot house.

  • Alki May 17, 2011 (4:02 pm)

    Try to stay on topic Foy Boy.

  • April May 17, 2011 (4:02 pm)

    Why are they backtracking? What happened in 2005 was a wonderful step forward for the health of our state. I can not believe that this bill passed in the Senate. Please, let’s not move backwards! Instead, let’s enforce the ban, and start charging fines to those who are breaking the law of indoor smoking and/or within 25 feet of a business entrance. Including the pot head lounges. Let terminally ill cancer patients buy their pot and smoke it at home. Where everyone else should be smoking their cigarettes and cigars where myself and the rest of the population does not have to be exposed to second hand smoke of any kind.

    Then take all those fines (you can walk down any street in Seattle and give out those fines left and right all day long) and use that money for those same people’s health care when the time comes. Or, for the clean up crew for all their cigarette butts everywhere.

  • austin May 17, 2011 (4:03 pm)

    “Its a free country after all, isn’t it?”
    .
    No, it is not.

  • cjboffoli May 17, 2011 (4:07 pm)

    Even beyond making the distinction between a store and a lounge, in 2011 doesn’t the presence of a tobacco store in the Junction seem anachronistic?
    .
    Tobacco use the the single most preventable cause of disease, death and disability in the United States. According to the CDC, nearly a half million people die prematurely from smoking to exposure to secondhand smoke and another 8.6 million live with a serious illness caused by smoking. This includes the use of smokeless tobacco, cigars and pipes which can have deadly consequences including lung, larynx, esophageal and oral cancers.
    .
    It is easy to represent tobacco use as a personal freedom and lifestyle choice for an adult. But an estimated 88 million nonsmokers in the US, 54% of which are children aged 3-11 years, are exposed to tobacco smoke.
    .
    In general, I’d like to wish any new small business well. But I certainly won’t be among the patrons of this new shop. And having seen the toll tobacco use and addiction has taken in my own family, I don’t think providing more access to tobacco is necessarily a positive thing.

  • NaboCane May 17, 2011 (4:08 pm)

    Idiots. Instead of focusing on requirements for adequate ventilation, focus on obstructing them…these businesses that cater to a specific clientele. Way to go, morons.
    .
    I was and am all for the banning of smoking in bars where everyone goes to eat or drink; smoke has no place there at all. But a CIGAR LOUNGE?!

  • NaboCane May 17, 2011 (4:13 pm)

    By the way, don’t confuse things…cigars are pure leaf, no additives (unless they’re flavored), whereas cigarettes are literally the trash of tobacco production, with a list of over 100 chemicals added to make them addictive and preserve them.

  • HimAgain May 17, 2011 (4:14 pm)

    I say ban all smokeshops and replace them with Soapbox stores. Grandstand Supply houses too. BTW where can I go to a Dead Horse Beaters Anonymous meeting ’round here?

  • Alki Area May 17, 2011 (4:25 pm)

    I WISH we had a nice cigar lounge. Look, cigars are legal. If you want to have a lounge that is ONLY staffed/attended by folks who VOLUNTEER to be there, get over it! Or else make it illegal.

    I’m tired of mommy state where we waffle around and end up with these “quasi-legal” states for tobacco, marijuana or whatnot. S**t or get off the pot. Stop trying to have it both ways.

    P.S. I’m FOR a ban on all tobacco in general restaurants…but banning cigar smoking IN a cigar store where ONLY people who smoke cigars will be around is silly.

  • Tuesday May 17, 2011 (4:27 pm)

    Who is forcing people to work in these lounges? Let people think for themselves. If they want to risk working in second hand smoke let them. I think eating farmed fish is gross and unhealthy, but I support the right of others to eat it if they want. This kind of stuff is getting ridiculous.

  • The Hepcat May 17, 2011 (4:50 pm)

    The Hepcat agrees with Alki Area. I love me a Macanudo Portofino from time to time, and would gladly patronize such an establishment. Don’t like it? Don’t go there. Simple as that. I’d rather puff and pontificate with my like minded, educated, responsible cigar lovers who, in all honesty, are more interesting than the lot of you.

    Harumph.

  • Genesee hill May 17, 2011 (4:59 pm)

    I am still somewhat irked the Feds outlawed opium dens in the early 1900s.

  • Alki May 17, 2011 (5:22 pm)

    Let em open and see how it goes. If there is a demand for it then it will do well, if there isn’t then it wont.

    /agree Alki Area.

  • CandrewB May 17, 2011 (6:01 pm)

    Shouldn’t she be working on making us wear helmets in our homes or something? I mean if we can just save one life, isn’t all of the loses to our freedoms worth it?

  • Trick May 17, 2011 (8:32 pm)

    There’s a significant investment to comply that may limit the cigar lounges to about 2-3 in Seattle. Tini Bigs and El Gaucho for sure.
    Cigar smokers are occasional smokers. They would much rather not smoke around non-smokers, hence the argument about not patronizing it if you don’t smoke or want to pontificate about the health hazards associated with tobacco.
    I don’t go to Jak’s if I’m a vegetarian, right?
    I think we’ve lost the argument for personal accountability…..

    How do I know? I worked in a cigar bar for years and loved the clientele until it became illegal.
    And I don’t smoke cigars.
    For example Burt, who smoked only on his wedding anniversary, The Derby, and his birthday. He passed away at 86 from a non-related tobacco illness.
    Smoking a Greycliff doesn’t have to violate you if you choose not to participate.

  • foy boy May 17, 2011 (10:33 pm)

    Yea baby freedom wins. freedom wins We finaly got some of our rights to be human back. Tough s— you non smoking winneis to bad so sad you lose. If your worried about cost just look at how much it just cost to losk for a lost hiker. should we ban hiking. Cars kill over 45 thosand people every year should we ban cars? Heck the war has killed 4000 in ten years. By those numbers it’s safer to be at war then driv ing a car. By no means am I taking the loss of life by our troops lightly. this was just an example. There are alot of things that may seem not right but should we not be able to make our own choices I don’t tell you to ride a bike or drink grape juice. You do what you do I do what I do. Thats what makes America great.

  • LP May 17, 2011 (10:38 pm)

    Her arguement against this is ludacris! People that work there smoke or want to be there. It’s a niche market and No one will be exposed the smoke who doesn’t want to be.
    Sales of Cigars mean more tax dollars.
    Let’s get back to living in the free world!

  • Mike May 18, 2011 (6:48 am)

    This will cost the state millions in health care? Has Washington’s budget been nice and fat since it banned all smoking 6 years ago? Surely the savings must be evident by now.

    Virtually every state that bans smoking exempts tobacco shops and many exempt cigar bars as well. California exempts smoke shops. Ditto for Oregon, where El Gaucho was allowed to keep its cigar bar. And about 35 other ban states. Washington was out of step with the rest of the nation when it banned smoke in a “smoke shop.”

    You would not expect a non-drinker to intellegently recommend a single-malt scotch or wine, and you would not take a cigar recommendation from someone who does not smoke them.

  • Danny May 18, 2011 (7:47 am)

    We should probably ban all fast food … or all food deemed unhealthy. The general public, as well as the welfare of the workers in these restaurant are at risk. This food is unhealthy and leads to heart disease, obesity and death. Forcing workers to work in these environments, where they almost all end up eating the food at the fast food places, is just wrong!

    Oh and bars too. Alcohol is also dangerous and can lead to liver disease. Subjecting bar tenders and patrons to this deadly poison needs to be stopped!!

    Oh, and cars and buses. It seems like every day we hear about someone dying from a car or bus. No one should be forced to have to take a car or bus to work or use one for work, because it can kill!!

  • Joan May 18, 2011 (8:51 am)

    Right now there are no ‘public’ places to enjoy a cigar, but you can make the drive to a couple of tribal cigar lounges, or join the private cigar club over in Sodo for around a grand plus monthly dues… And the ventilation systems of these places are phenomenal! I experience way, WAY more air pollution while pedaling the bicycle to work than I do visiting those establishments!

    In this thread I read the complaints about second hand cigarette smoke hazards, and see the response from cigar smokers stating cigars are a different type of tobacco product, plus workers and patrons have a choice about where they work and hang out. It doesn’t seem like these answers are taken into consideration by those in the former camp. Why is that?

  • MichaelJMcFadden May 18, 2011 (9:06 am)

    I applaud the vote, however, the fees ($17,500/year!!!) are ridiculous: they amount to nothing more nor less than an outright extortion/protection racket run by the state government to steal money from a vulnerable minority. The expenses will ultimately of course come directly out of the pockets of the smokers who will patronize these venues in the form of higher prices. There is some degree of justification for states to charge a thousand dollars or so for a liquor license since inspectors must be paid to inspect such places to be sure they’re not selling fake booze etc, but there’s no such justification for a cigar lounge or tobacco shop. It’s extortion and should be illegal, pure and simple.

    And the prohibition against smoking cigarettes in a cigar lounge is simple nonsense: Can the State of Washington produce even a SINGLE scientific study that gives sound evidence that “second hand cigar smoke” is any safer than “second hand cigarette smoke”? Of course not: none exist.


    Michael J. McFadden
    Author of “Dissecting Antismokers’ Brains”

  • linkup May 18, 2011 (1:17 pm)

    First of all,all cigar lounges should be ok as long as there are an equal number of cigarette and pipe lounges.

    Don’t be fools,this is all about banning cigarettes and it is getting ugly.

    There should be no bans as no one is forced to work anywhere they do not like.

  • cjboffoli May 18, 2011 (2:00 pm)

    Danny: Food provides nourishment. A glass of red wine or a beer with dinner is actually heart healthy. Cars provide transportation. But smoking tobacco has almost immediate negative cardiac and vascular consequences for the smoker and the people in the immediate vicinity who breathe that smoke. So your comparisons are illogical. Tobacco is a 1000x more potent drug than alcohol (even more addictive than heroin). The US Surgeon General has said that there is no safe level of exposure to tobacco smoke. There are safe levels of exposure to cheeseburgers, alcohol and driving cars.
    .
    Smoking in the US kills more people than alcohol, AIDS, car accidents, illegal drugs, murders and suicides COMBINED. The total annual public and private health care expenditures caused by smoking are around $96 billion. The annual health care expenditures solely from secondhand smoke are around $5 billion.

  • CurlyQ May 18, 2011 (4:14 pm)

    Thank you, cjboffoli, for bringing some sanity and science into this discussion!

  • FrankGrimes May 18, 2011 (4:48 pm)

    Sanity and science my rear end, especially since your side can’t even produce one death certificate from anyone who’s ever died from SHS exposure. Till the day the anti-smokers can prove that, maybe you need to worry about more important things than the very few who want to gather together and hang out in an adult-oriented cigar bar, which anyway, NO ONE except those who enjoy smoking cigars will patronize anyway!

    Never mind that Washington state still hasn’t gone far enough, in my opinion, to once again allow any adult-only establishment prohibiting minors from entering or being employed at all times(and like the state smoking laws in Georgia, Tennessee, and Arkansas) the right to permit or ban tobacco smoking, regardless if one likes cigars, cigarettes, or pipes. But the allowance of cigar bars to exist is a much-needed first step in Washington state to restoring the property rights of all who wish to be able to enjoy tobacco smoking inside their own business, and I applaud this move. All those on the anti-smoking side should be ashamed for trying to stop this bill from becoming law, especially since NO ONE has ever been forced against their will to work in a cigar bar, and the only ones who would choose to work in such a business anyway are those who truly enjoy cigars.

  • ironic_chef May 18, 2011 (4:54 pm)

    @cjboffoli,

    …Tobacco is a 1000x more potent drug than alcohol (even more addictive than heroin)…

    Based on what? Are you kidding? Alcohol seriously impairs motor skills and the ability to function. Tobacco does not. In fact, recent studies have shown that tobacco (nicotine), actually sharpens brain function.

    http://dengulenegl.dk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/meta-analysis-acute-effects-of-nicotine-and-smoking-on-human-performance.pdf

    Furthermore, the claim that tobacco and nicotine is more addictive than heroin is ludicrous. I’ve met and known many people who are “social smokers” both of cigarettes and cigars. I’ve also known people who suffered from opiate addiction. The symptoms of withdrawal are nothing in comparison, and I’ve never heard of a “social heroin user”. Tobacco may be a difficult habit to quit, but it is nothing remotely close to heroin.

    …The US Surgeon General has said that there is no safe level of exposure to tobacco smoke. There are safe levels of exposure to cheeseburgers, alcohol and driving cars…

    And that’s really the crux of it – fewer people believe the myth of second hand smoke, or what the US Surgeon General claims. There is nothing in the Surgeon General report that supports that claim, though she made it. Imagine – an authority figure lying to advance an agenda! Further, the more the anti smoking groups concoct new lies about things like third hand smoke, (yes, it’s true, that’s what is coming next; http://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/2011/05/more-thirdhand-smoke-garbage.html ), the more the BS detector goes off in even more people. Look at the sentiment in the preceding comments.

    http://www.bmj.com/content/326/7398/1057.full

    Even if you do believe in the dubious claim of SHS, there is absolutely no reason to think that adequate ventilation can’t be used to mitigate it.
    .
    …Smoking in the US kills more people than alcohol, AIDS, car accidents, illegal drugs, murders and suicides COMBINED. The total annual public and private health care expenditures caused by smoking are around $96 billion. The annual health care expenditures solely from secondhand smoke are around $5 billion…

    The anti-smoking people may lay claim to this, but I’ve never seen where these numbers come from. Where are they? Can I see them? And what about the MSA which our own glorious governor spearheaded in making a reality? Wasn’t that supposed to reimburse the state for the costs that smokers impose on society? What about the taxes on tobacco – where on earth do they go if not to pay for the burden smokers place on society? Funding other children’s health care perhaps (SCHIP)?

    http://www.forces.org/evidence/evid/cost.htm

    Like it or not, people do smoke, and will continue to do so. Further – it’s a legal product, and provides more revenues to society than it costs.

  • CandrewB May 18, 2011 (5:58 pm)

    I don’t know where this whole “cigarettes are more addictive than heroin” thing ever came about, but it’s not rational. I smoked for ten years and quit cold turkey a decade ago; it was challenging but not that difficult. Millions can say the same. However, at the height of my cigarette addiction, if I found they were all of a sudden illegal, would it have ever crossed my mind to prostitute myself for nicotine.

  • Danny May 19, 2011 (8:30 am)

    “…Tobacco is a 1000x more potent drug than alcohol (even more addictive than heroin)…”

    Haha, yeah that one got me too. I know many people, myself included that do or did smoke cigars/cigarettes on a social basis, i.e. when drinking. I don’t do it anymore, but I was never addicted or suffered from any diseases or death.

    This argument is silly. And then trying to refute that fast food is less dangerous than cigarettes? Are you kidding me? Look at the obesity rates in this country! And last I checked, heart disease was the number one cause of death in this country.

    I’m not anti-fast food or pro-smoking. I just believe people should be able to enjoy their vices, if their vices cause no harm to others. And smoking a cigar in a cigar lounge doesn’t harm any innocent people.

Sorry, comment time is over.