Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Unreasonable Speed Limit SW Admiral Way
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April 1, 2010 at 6:11 pm #594374
hooper1961MemberI am a Professional Engineer with expertise in Traffic Engineering. In June 2006 the City arbitrarily and capriciously lowered the speed limit on SW Admiral Way (s/o of SW Olga Street to West Seattle Bridge) from the reasonable 35 MPH limit to an unreasonable 30 MPH limit. The change was without any technical basis.
I submitted a Professionally prepared Traffic Study to the City that documented that the 35 MPH limit was reasonable and safe. The City has never refuted my analysis.
Follow-up review of City accident data for the before and after the speed limit change was conducted. The City data shows that the unreasonable 30 MPH speed limit has resulted in a 15% increase in accidents; thus the City erroneous decision to lower the limit from 35 to 30 MPH made the corridor less safe!
Fellow West Seattle residents I encourage you to contact the City (206.684.4000) and raise your concerns and request the Speed Limit be reverted back to the reasonable 35 MPH limit that existed prior to June 2006.
April 1, 2010 at 6:26 pm #691731
KBearParticipantThis is the Internet. We’re all traffic engineers here.
April 1, 2010 at 6:53 pm #691732
hooper1961MemberYes I know if you have a drivers license you are a Traffic Engineer.
However, I am a Professional Traffic Engineer and have 26 years of Traffic Engineering work experience and am a expert in the field of Traffic Engineering. My credentials include PE (Professional Engineer in Washington) and PTOE (Professional Traffic Operations Engineer, per the Transportation Professional Certification Board, Inc.)
April 1, 2010 at 6:55 pm #691733
charlabobParticipantWhy I do suspect that someone was busted by the motorcycle cop lurking between the for sale cars for the last few days. :-)
As a Professional Heckler, I wonder how a Professional Speed Trap Evaluator can tell that the decreased Speed Limit was responsible for the Increase in Accidents.
This is the Virtual Bus, KB — we’re all bozos on this bus.
April 1, 2010 at 6:59 pm #691734
hooper1961MemberI obtained before and after accident data from the City. Extensive Traffic Engineering documentation clearly shows that speed limits set to low or too high reduce traffic safety. The safest limits are those that are set based on nationally recognized criteria, speed limits that are consistent to motorists expectations.
April 1, 2010 at 7:16 pm #691735
AimParticipantThis particular horse has been beaten to death, and at this point we’re flaying the bloody remains. Can we move on to a new horse?
http://www.google.com/search?q=admiral+speed+limit&sitesearch=westseattleblog.com
April 1, 2010 at 7:23 pm #691736
JanSParticipantoh, yeah…it’s common knowledge that cars simply want to go faster than the speed limit on the Admiral Hill.Why, just the other day one of those cars passed us by…we were going 32 MPH, they were going 45 mph…must have been one of those naturally occurring faster cars. They even had to weave in and out of traffic to maintain their speed.
:)
April 1, 2010 at 7:44 pm #691737
hooper1961MemberAnd when the limit was reasonably posted at 35 MPH you likely would have been traveling at 37 MPH making the speed differential significantly less; thus safer traffic operations.
April 1, 2010 at 7:47 pm #691738
mpentoParticipantHooper if you will get a bumper sticker that says “traffic engineer on board” I’ll think about it.
Engineers say that using cyanide has been shown to significantly reduce death from other causes.
A young engineer was leaving the office at 6 p.m. when he found the CEO standing in front of a shredder with a piece of paper in his hand. “Listen,” said the CEO, “this is important, and my secretary has left. Can you make this thing work?” “Certainly,” said the young engineer. He turned the machine on, inserted the paper, and pressed the start button. “Excellent, excellent!” said the CEO as his paper disappeared inside the machine. “I just need one copy.”
April 1, 2010 at 7:55 pm #691739
hooper1961Membervery funny
April 1, 2010 at 7:59 pm #691740
hoffanimalParticipantWhy all the hate on the engineer? That speed limit is stupidly slow.
April 1, 2010 at 8:04 pm #691741
hooper1961Memberthank you, contact the City at 206.684.4000 and let them know.
April 1, 2010 at 9:02 pm #691742
CarsonParticipantHooper, I think I know you, do you live close to that darn Sidewalk Parking Jeep house on 39th and Admiral? I am guessing if you are one and the same, then you know me and Carson. While I think Admiral can handle 35 mph, I don’t think the curve at the top of the hill can and neither can the part between say Met Market and the Overlook. Right now its 30 mph, so traffic flows a little faster (maybe 35-40?), at times too fast, if you make it 35, people will drive even faster. Whats the hurry that 5 MPH makes a difference?
April 1, 2010 at 9:25 pm #691743
alki_2008ParticipantIf 5mph higher doesn’t make a difference, then what does it matter if it’s 30 or 35? People that are driving 40mph aren’t going to change their speed whether the limit is 30 or 35 or 40. The only time they’ll adjust their speed is if they see a cop out there.
Also, I’ve mentioned this before (long while back), but there isn’t a speed limit sign anywhere between Olga (viewpoint entrance) and right after Lander. Someone turning right onto Admiral from California SB won’t know what the speed limit on Admiral is. Someone coming out of the viewpoint won’t see a speed limit sign until they get to Lander. I’m referring to Admiral WESTbound, by the way.
It’s great (not!) to see how logical arguments are rebutted with immature ramblings and personal attacks.
April 1, 2010 at 9:31 pm #691744
hooper1961MemberI am unveiled; the section for 35 MPH is from south of SW Olga Street to the West Seattle Bridge. It was posted at 35 MPH prior to June 2006 and operated safely and efficiently and thus should not have been changed. And it is not true people drive faster with higher speed limits. The Technical Traffic Science shows that most motorists drive at prudent speeds regardless of the limit. Setting the speed limits that is consistent to what most motorists choose to drive improves Traffic Safety.
You identified that most people drive the corridor at 35 to 40, City data indicates the typical speeds are 40 to 49 MPH. And based on what I see the typical motorist drives the corridor at 40 to 45 MPH. Reverting the limit back to 35 MPH would allow law enforcement to focus their enforcement to motorists driving unreasonably fast and not ensnare the typical motorist.
April 1, 2010 at 9:43 pm #691745
maplesyrupParticipantI dunno about that, alki_2008. If I’m going to speed I keep it within a range. Like 5 miles over in residential areas and 10 miles over on the highway.
Anyway, last night some teenagers were *flying* down the hill as I was trying to turn up it from that side street near Luna Park. It’s hard to judge the speed of oncoming cars from that angle and I almost got hit.
Sure they’re probably going to speed regardless, but my gut feeling is that the higher the speed limit, the faster they’re going to go.
April 1, 2010 at 9:44 pm #691746
CarsonParticipantNO, you are not unveiled!! If it was 35, and enforced at 35 that would be great, but everyone I know figures in a fudge factor of 5-10 mph over the limit.
April 1, 2010 at 9:58 pm #691747
hooper1961MemberThe reality is that the prior 35 MPH limit operated more safely than the arbitrary 30 MPH limit because 35 MPH is more consistent with the superior street geometries (wide, no access on west side, fewer parked cars et al)in the section from s/o SW Olga Street to the West Seattle Bridge. Reverting the limit back to 35 MPH improves safety and allows law enforcement to cite motorists who deserve to be ticketed.
April 1, 2010 at 10:17 pm #691748
Genesee HillParticipantWhile I generally like conservative speed limits, in this case, I agree with hooper1961. I was surprised when they lowered it and honestly could not figure out why. It is such a wide road with few cross streets and good sight lines.
April 1, 2010 at 10:29 pm #691749
JoBParticipantThe lower speed limt is for pedestrian safety..not traffic flow..and wouldn’t be necessary if drivers stopped treating that area as a freeway onramp
April 1, 2010 at 10:36 pm #691750
maplesyrupParticipantDoes anyone know the official reason it was lowered?
April 1, 2010 at 10:55 pm #691751
KBearParticipantSDOT had some extra 30 mph signs and they needed a place to put them.
April 1, 2010 at 11:16 pm #691752
WSBKeymasterFYI I exchanged e-mail recently from the engineer in question here and I’m pretty sure he’s legit. Just to put that to rest. Was hoping to look into this for a story in the not-too-distant future, potentially as part of wider ongoing issues on that section of Admiral, as the discussion was revived after the deadly crash weekend before last.
April 1, 2010 at 11:32 pm #691753
hooper1961MemberThank you – I have a BSCE (Bachelor of Science Civil Engineering) from the UW in 1984, my PE (Professional Engineer, Washington State) # is 25744 and my PTOE (Professional Traffic Operations Engineer) certificate # is 372
April 1, 2010 at 11:45 pm #691754
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