I let my dog off leash..

[barb]

There are just so many people that have so many problems with every little thing that the second that very well behaved unleashed dog runs up to a kid, even just to “say hi”, and the kid starts to cry, probably because it’s been sheltered from every little thing, then the parent is going to threaten to sue the owner of that dog.

I also love dogs, I have a cupboard full of dog treats for friends who bring theirs over.

Share This

[RS]

I wondered the same thing barb. It’s great that the OP is attempting to be responsible with her dogs and I wish all other dog owners would be equally conscientious when it comes to their dog’s behavior. But it really comes down to the fact that the leash laws are there to protect everyone in ALL situations. The law doesn’t say keep your dog on a leash unless its under voice control or the park is fenced in. Maybe there are people who avoid that park entirely just because they are intimidated by the loose dogs they see running around? The law is there to ensure that they can enjoy the parks too, even if they don’t like or are afraid of dogs.

Ultimately those who “responsibly” break the law are still breaking the law and setting a bad example for others. Sorry, that’s just how I see it.

Share This

[flowerpetal]

This seems to me to be a much more civilized conversation than was had a few weeks ago. Thank you all! My dog would never run up to anyone without a verbal o.k. from me first. She does run to greet neighbors on our walks; but only because it is o.k.’d. I have had other dogs that I would never have off leash. I guess their personality wouldn’t permit the depth of training that my current pooch has.

I appreciate too the concerns that some of you have stated about other dogs who are agressive and might approach my dog and myself. Having her on a leash is not going to protect her anymore than having her off leash. She is always as near to me as she would be on leash.

Again, thanks for your reasonable comments.

Share This

[Anonymous]

I have to agree with barb and some of the others.

This may be a “decent” conversation, but if you are not obeying the law, I will call the animal control. (maybe I feel so strongly about this because I have a little girl and a little dog).

I can do it while still be friendly to you and your off-leash dog, but I’ll still be calling.

Those fines don’t seem too fun, btw.

Share This

[Mama]

Pure and simple: My rights as a human being in this community supercede any rights that you think your dog has to be off leash.

Guess what – I don’t want your dog running up to me to just “say hi.” I don’t care for the fearful feeling I get, wondering if your dog is friendly or not, or will my little leashed dog be attacked (again).

Barb, your post #26 infuriates me. A dog runs up to a kid, the kid starts to cry, and it is somehow the kid’s fault for living a sheltered life (you incorrectly assume)? OMG!

Please try to put yourselves in other people’s shoes. Not everyone likes dogs. Some people have had horrible experiences with dogs in the past. Some people are frail or just had surgery and don’t want to worry about being jumped on or knocked over. Maybe they are seriously, highly allergic to dogs. There are many possible reasons why people don’t want to interact with your dog who “just wants to say hi.”

The point is PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO WALK OUTSIDE WITHOUT WORRYING ABOUT OFF LEASH DOGS.

Share This

[gambaru]

Bottom line: Dogs need to get out and run. Even little ones. An exhausted dog = happy owners, happy neighbors, and happy dog. As teh owner of a large dog, walks just don’t cut it. She needs to get out and run off her energy. Owners wouldn’t feel they need to let their dogs off leash illegally as much if there were ample places for Fido to run legally. Whether you are a dog person or not, that’s an issue we can all support. More off-leash areas, so dogs have a place to go and run that won’t “offend” everyone else.

Mama- I have never heard of anyone going into anaphylactic shock from k9 allergies. Your other arguments are ok, but allergies? Come on.

Share This

[JoB]

let me tell you about mochi…

she is adorable.. and not just because she is my dog. she is 30 pounds, her ears are alert… and she looks as friendly as they come. her tail curls up over her back and she prances as she walks.

but she was dumped into more than one pack of dogs on her way to my house… and she learned quickly that it was better to be in charge than not.

She looks friendly. in spite of my warning, people let their dogs run up to my cute little leashed dog. She wags and sniffs.. and if they don’t defer to her, she snarls and bares her fangs… and if they don’t submit.. she fights.

she has no fear. She challenged a mastiff one day. She didn’t win, but she fought well.

she is slowly beginning to trust that we will take care of dogs around her and challenges less… but some pretty fierce dogs come in small packages…

you would be more likely to be hurt trying to separate my dog from yours than from a pitbull because her teeth are needle sharp and her breed is barely an evolutionary step up from wolves.. so once she gets started, it really takes a lot to call her off.

your big friendly four legged sweetie could get hurt by those sharp teeth.. even if she didn’t sink them in to make a point.. and so could you.

let me tell you about Yuki. He was abused by people on his way to me.

He looks just like a sweet little fox and few people who meet him can resist him.. unless of course he is lunging on his leash, growling with those same fangs bared and trying to attack.

I tell people to stay away from this dog. They approach. he sits by my side. I tell people not to talk to this dog. he sits by my side but tenses. i tell people not to pet him. they reach their hand down to him and he lunges to bite. And that is the best case scenario.

luckily i have been able to pull my dog back behind me.. lunging and snarling every time i have encountered someone who just can’t take no for an answer.. but luck and diligence only go so far.

Just watching my dogs wrestle is enough to frighten most people. they look like they will kill one another.. and sound like it too.. until you look closer and realize they are truly all snarl and no bite… at least with those they know.

I believe they don’t escalate to actual violence unless the other dog does.. but i don’t think i’ll test that one. these dogs aren’t likely to even get to play in dog parks… i am not sure they will even make it to breed meet-ups.

i am told their breed will fight to the death with one another… and i know they are being used as guard dogs. It’s probably better not to risk it.

Now you might say i should have put dogs like that down, but most problem dogs are the result of problem owners and these two are no exception.

They make incredible progress. Just yesterday mochi met another dog and simply sat by my side ignoring the other dog.. and Yuki successfully took his first tour in a pet store.. and managed to mind his own business and walked out of the store completely fascinated with a new toy. he now knows where the toy store is:(

We have spent a bundle finding good trainers and have worked with these dogs every day since we adopted them nearly a year and a half ago.. and will work with them every day for the rest of their lives… and are amply rewarded for our work by dogs who become happier, more loving and more trusting every day.

the truth is that you don’t know anything about either the dogs on leash around you or the friendly looking dog who runs up to you.. regardless of what their owner looks like.

I am responsible as responsible with my dogs as i look…

but you just don’t know if the dog approaching you has been well loved and well trained … whether it is leashed or not.

leash laws are as much for your safety as that of others.

Share This

[B-squared]

i like dogs very much. i’m not afraid of dogs. however, i don’t have a dog because i don’t have the time or space to adequately care for a creature of their nature (carnivorous, social animals). Their nature dictates that they will often chase “prey” (whatever they determine that to be), will seek to protect their companions (whenever they conceive of a threat), will want to interact with other dogs or people (whether they want to be interacted with or not), etc.

when i walk through a neighborhood park (not playground) or the beach, i want to enjoy the tiny bit of nature we have left (not your free-range domesticated pet). dogs charging into the water or ripping through the underbrush, chasing anything that moves, relieving themselves wherever, while the owner stands idly by, oblivious to any impact their animal is having on the surroundings, is unacceptable. “My dog is under ‘voice’control’. My dog is well behaved. My dog would ‘never’ do that. it’s just a squirrel” uh-huh. your ignorance of the negative impact your off-leash dog is having on many levels, and your sense of entitlement to continue to allow that impact encourages me to act in a manner that protects the quality of my community.

Hopefully, the “community” you live in will shun that behavior and will report it to animal control along with your vehicle license number. just as i hope same “community” would report someone dumping their litterbag out on your parking strip, throwing their yardwaste in a green belt down the street from you, dumping their used motor oil down the storm drain on your street, defacing the streetsigns on your block, shooting birds on your electrical wires with BB guns, etc.

Share This

[Mama]

Gambaru, I can assure you that allergic reactions (mild to serious) can happen in susceptible people, even with minimal contact. Just because you’ve never heard of it does not mean it doesn’t happen!

We are in agreement that off leash dogs should be in specified off leash areas when in public. No off leash area? Put your dog on a leash.

Share This

[JoB]

No off leash area?

there would be more off leash areas if people who don’t own dogs agitated for them.

Share This

[RS]

I know there should totally be more off-leash dog parks, but I gotta say that I love the ones that we do have and I’m totally appreciative that they exist at all.

We moved here from a city that had 18,000 people per square mile. (By contrast, Seattle has about 7,000 people per square mile) We had ONE dog park that was entirely gravel, no trees or bushes and about the size of a basketball court.

Given how great Westcrest is and how many wonderful trails, beaches, and parks exist for on-leash walking, it surprises me that people still complain about this. I guess its all relative.

Share This

[datamuse]

I do like the off leash park at Westcrest. My fiance and I often walk through it, because we like dogs and it’s fun to watch them run around and play. (Right now, having one ourselves isn’t feasible.)

But I have a question. Why, with the off-leash park right there, do I see so many dogs off leash at Westcrest OUTSIDE of it? When I walk or run on the trails in the woods nearby, I’ll encounter at least one person with their dog off the leash more often than not. Right now the undergrowth in those woods is quite overgrown and I and the dog’s person don’t see each other until we’re literally face to face. If the dog is running ahead, it might encounter me before its person does.

Now I’m not particularly bothered by this at a personal level, having spent some time in cities where free-roaming dogs are common; I’m more concerned about the rottweiler in the fenced yard down the street who snarls at me every time I go by.

But here’s what I don’t get. Even WITH an off-leash park, RIGHT THERE, why do people still have their dogs off leash outside it? They can’t claim ignorance, there are signs everywhere. What conclusion can I draw other than that they think the law doesn’t apply to them?

Share This

[guidosmom]

datamuse, I have wondered the same thing! I ride my horse on those trails behind Westcrest every now and then and can’t even begin to tell you how many times we’ve been chased by off leash dogs. Luckily my horse is very sensible and could care less, but if it were an aggressive dog trying to bite her I am sure she’d kick, and probably come out the winner. The mounted police barn is on the other side of Westcrest and I’ve also seen them ride through the park on occasion. Many dogs in the city have never seen a horse and will chase it. I have seen many owners trying to call back their dogs then chase after them apologizing when their dogs don’t listen. “He/she has never done this before, I am so sorry.”

Share This

[gambaru]

Datamuse- I totally understand your question and asked that myself when I first started bringing my dog to Westcrest. The dog park has been a wonderful source of community for us since we moved to West Seattle. Gone are the days when neighbors hang out on the porches and get to know eachother well. The dog park has been that substitute for us. I go daily at around the same time and have gotten to know great people quite well. In fact, we have dog park friends who actually flew internationally to our wedding this past year. I cannot advocate enough for the importance of dog parks in a community, it is such an effective use of community space.

Ok, back on topic:I admit I do, now, take my dog in those trails. I know that concession will invite a hailstorm of comments but here goes: Yes, Westcrest is amazing. I am so grateful to have it there, but most of it is open area. It can get kind of crowded, which can agitate some of the more dominant dogs. It can also get REALLY hot for the dogs to run in an open field. The trails that are fenced in, are quite limited. (Just a thin line between the roads.) It is several degrees cooler outside the gates. Plus, walking the trails and hills is much better exercise for me and my dog. My dog runs harder and is more interested in teh terrain. Based on conversations with native west seattlites, that area was included in the proposal for the dog park, but there was protesting, so it wasn’t.

Now, I didn’t originally venture outside of the gate. However, I did utilize that area after this: A good friend was walking with her dogs in the back trails and witnessed a crime. She decided to risk getting an off-leash fine and report the crime to the police, in doing so, admitted to them she’d been there with her dogs off-leash. The police response? “Don’t worry about it, we’d have to give 500 off-leash fines for that area if we gave you one.” I took this as a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. Right or wrong, everyone knows dogs are off leash in that area, so don’t be surprised if you see it there. To be honest, the only people I really ever see out in those woods enjoying them are those with dogs. Would including it as part of the off-leash area be a better use of that green space?

Ok, flood gates opened, may the comments ensue.

Share This

[Anonymous]

I think this is one of those unfortunate things where, unless something horrible or tragic has happened to you, you just don’t get it.

People will continue to walk their dogs off-leash, and continue to think it is ok.

One day something will happen, either to you, your dog, another dog, another person or a child and it will change your view forever.

Hopefully, that something bad won’t be too serious or devastating.

Share This

[andrea]

Well, I’ve avoided commenting in the forums for awhile now, but I feel I must here. I too let my dogs off leash on occassion. Seriously, its bound to happen in a city where people have more dogs per capita than they have children. And while I agree with other posters that Westcrest is nice to be able to have in our area, it is not close to where we live at all, and their small/shy dog space leaves much to be desired.

My husband and I have 3 dogs, from 95 lbs to 7 lbs, and they are all very well trained and obediant to a fault. This is through an exceeding amount of training on their and our parts. and we realize that while we have taken the time to train our boys, others may not with their’s. We don’t let them off leash in open public places, but in vacant and fenced in playgrounds (where we always find many other dog owners with their dogs), park trails, and the like when by 2 bigger boys need to burn off more energy than their usual walk affords them. However, whenever we walk around our neighborhood or down to the beach or shopping areas, they are all always on a leash. But to reiterate I too let my dogs off leash. And I’m OK with that.

So there you have it…isn’t this fun?

Share This

[RS]

Well it sucks to think that people only obey laws if something bad has happened to them related to that law. I’ve never been in a bad motorcycle accident, but I still wear a helmet. I’ve never been investigated by the IRS, but I still pay my taxes. I think of this issue like driving in the carpool lane when you’re by yourself. People do it because they think it doesn’t matter, but it defeats the purpose of the law… and pisses off the people who obey the rules on principle!

Share This

[Anonymous]

RS – You make great points. I also think it sucks that people would only obey the law if something bad happened to them. Unfortunately, though, there are people like that. This is illustrated here.

andrea – I can see where you are coming from (also BDG), but I think I would be worried about turning a corner on one of those trails and running into a not so obedient or friendly dog.

Also, no matter what kind of dog you have, it is still an animal. Animals can snap at anytime for any reason.

This is such a difficult issue, in that there are two sides to the issue. I think the very best advice I’ve seen in this and similar threads is the coming together to get more off-leash areas.

Share This

[JW]

The reason so many people have responded with compliments and reason to the OP is because it was reasonable to begin with. The tone was honest and exceptionally UNself-righteous, qualities not common around these parts…

In that spirit, I’ve been dying to add my own honest tale (and I’ll try to avoid the self-righteous trap– so easy to fall into):

I am a REFORMED off-leasher. I too used to let my “baby” run free (and not just in fenced areas either). Seeing the joy she got from running off leash, with unlimited sniffing room… well, it warmed my heart. I felt like a great dog parent– indulgent yes, but oh so loving. Besides my husband, she was the greatest love in my life, all chubby, 70+lbs of her sweet mutt-ness.

What happened? Well, a few things. We moved to a city where it was a little more crowded than we were used to. I started noticing people frowning at me and my dog. I got a few lectures, and the one from the sweet old lady in Schmitz Park who had been recently bit by a dog… that stuck with me. I became weary trying to explain that my dog wouldn’t hurt a flea (hadn’t occurred to me yet that she could be in danger too).

And then what really ended the off-leash days—the birth of my first child. At first, it was practical—hard to push a stroller and keep an off-leash dog off people’s lawns at the same time. Then I realized that my dog was doing just fine with being on the leash, and it was so relaxing, going for walks without the “put your dog a leash” accusatory stares. Once again I felt like a good dog parent—not less loving, just more responsible. How a dog-family should be, in a city.

But having a child was also my first step towards becoming the accuser—becoming that very person I used to dread, that person who so emphatically tells total strangers “YOUR DOG SHOULD BE ON A LEASH.” I do it all the time, because honestly, nothing is more important to me than the safety of my two little guys. We play at Layfayette playground and hearing about the pit bull attack there recently… well, it kept me up at night, trying to push away the image of a viscous dog racing towards my just-walking 17 month old.

I don’t think this switch is hypocrisy… it’s a honest reaction to becoming older, a parent, and yes, a bit wiser along the way. I totally “get” wanting to let your dog off-leash— but that’s not for me anymore. Simply, I disagree with it. And, I might glare at you if I think your dog is a possible danger to my children. But then again… honestly… I might smile at you and ask if your dog is friendly so my children can pat it, because my dog has passed away and when I see a happy dog out enjoying the fresh air, I remember my old gal and the fun times we had…

P.S. We live near Schmitz Park and that is the most UNofficial off-leash dog park I’ve ever seen… seriously people, your dogs may not be bothering people but they are destroying the natural environment of that park, upon which countless types of wildlife depend. Please stop.

Hope I did OK with the self-righteousness…

Share This

[gambaru]

A wise person once told me, “The difference between whining and venting is that when you’re done complaining, you do something about it.” I don’t know how many times I have seen threads on this blog related to this very topic. Dogs need a place to run. People get offended/scared when they aren’t on a leash. Doesn’t look like its going to end soon. The off-leash fines are already very hefty and they haven’t deterred the behavior. What is everyone’s suggestion for solving the problem?

Share This

[datamuse]

gambaru said:

“What is everyone’s suggestion for solving the problem?”

I’m entirely in favor of more off-leash areas–whoever said that non-dog owners should get behind this too has a good suggestion. It would add to the number of voices asking for it.

JW said:

“We live near Schmitz Park and that is the most UNofficial off-leash dog park I’ve ever seen… seriously people, your dogs may not be bothering people but they are destroying the natural environment of that park, upon which countless types of wildlife depend. Please stop.”

This is a good point and one that I hadn’t really seen brought up in this discussion before. There’s a similar issue with the West Duwamish Greenbelt, where dogs, mountain bikes, and those little four-wheelers do a lot of damage to an ecologically sensitive area currently undergoing much-needed restoration.

Share This

[charlabob]

Someone during this thread suggested that people without dogs needed to jump in and support more off-leash parks. I completely agree. Right now, and for the foreseeable future, we’ll be indoor cat people rather than dog people. But I want there to be more offleash parks and other areas. What do we do to make it happen?

BTW, only a slight thread-jack, I feel the same about improving schools…we don’t have school aged kids and we’d be happy to be more involved in schools (beyond voting for every tax levy that comes along.)

The true meaning of communit, imnho, is when we all care about and support things that don’t impact us directly.

Share This

[JanS]

I saw an interesting sign today, in a neighborhood just south of Highpoint….had never seen an official looking sign like this one before…it read” Police your dog. Leash it.Curb it. Clean up after it.” It was low to the ground on a parking strip..maybe put there by the property owner? I figured they must have had a lot of problems in the area.

I’m a non-dog person, but I would gladly support more off-leash places – all neighborhoods should have them :)

Share This

[Anonymous]

charla – What a wonderful thing to say!

I am a dog owner and would be 100% willing to help encourage more off-leash parks. But, the non-dog owners would really help!

Who knows what the step are in getting something done?

Also, JW, You were not self-righteous at all. I loved your story and I’m glad that you shared it. I’m really sorry to hear about your baby passing on.

Share This

[gambaru]

From what I understand, Seattle Parks and Rec. are in charge of the off-leash areas since they are technically on park land. However, I THINK the off-leash areas get a lot of their funding through a corporate sponsor… Contacting Parks and Rec would most likely be the first step.

Share This

[Author]

Posts