health insurance cost increase

[JoB]

kootch..

“No one wants to say it.. but,.. we aren’t immortal and fate throws turds in the air… 150K therapies are not a right.. and we spend so much on other things.. healtch care is going to be rationed one way or the other. I am amazed at how efficient the delivery system has been.”

efficient?

did you even look around you when you spent that day at Nickelsville?

it doesn’t take much to see that health care delivery is far more efficient for some than for others kootch…

you get treated for your chronic health conditions

but those without money don’t..

so what starts out as a chronic treatable condition

becomes a critical life threatening condition

if preventative care is available.. you don’t “show up at 45 with high bp and cholesterol loads off the chart” looking for affordable health care.

those doing so now are largely those who avoided the “cost” of preventative care in their youth… and expect low premiums now when they actually need health care.

not those who get covered by medicaid. that bus passed them long ago.

oh wait.. you said medicare didn’t you?

medicare is what you get when you tie health insurance to a job kootch… and throw people into the for profit health care insurance system at the point when their consumption is highest.

without medicare.. there would be no option for health care insurance for the elderly…

affordable or not.

by definition.. it’s not likely to be profitable.

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[miws]

Let’s see….last evening I got together with a friend, and went to a couple of presentations regarding the SR99 Tunnel, and a bit of Seattle/Viaduct history.

We popped in real quick to a couple of venues on the Art Walk.

Have tentative plans tomorrow, to get together with another friend, and go to an event celebrating Seattle Kid’s TV Shows of the past.

I go to the library, to have some semblance of a social life, and to not be sitting around my transitional shelter getting depressed. (I actually talk to some of the other guys here, too!)

I don’t use the taxpayer funded computers all that often, only if, perhaps, I’ve had other errands and don’t feel like lugging the laptop around. (And yes, it was donated by a generous friend.)

Hell. all of that’s pretty good, on my part, since I’m not a very social person to begin with.

And I worked 30+ years in the Seattle area, contributing to the local economy, paying rent and house payments to help support the libraries and such.

I, and many others here, are aware that life hands out turds. I have turds that go way back to my young childhood. There’s others here that do as well.

Sorry if this post isn’t very articulate.

My mind just seems a jumble anymore, from reading kootch’s and hoop’s ongoing tirades, and kootch’s constant insults and condescension to JoB, JaN, and others…

Mike

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[Gina]

sidenote to Mike: I wish I could go to that picnic! I’d bring Lucky Charms and milk.

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[miws]

That would definitely calm my nerves! ;-)

Mike

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[JoB]

miws…

every time you start taking the naysayers seriously enough to affect your blood pressure

remind yourself that they seldom get the opportunity to spend time listening to others

it’s not that they are so very busy..

it’s that they simply don’t know how to listen.

on my more noble days

i pity them

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[kootchman]

Efficient doesn’t mean perfect. It is degrees thereof. Still you never answer questions posed directly. What is fair, where is the cut off point? I think it is great we have access to public computers. It alleviates some of Mikes isolation. I suspect that almost everyone has been vaccinated and made immune to at least 7 of the last centuries fatal diseases.

Yes it is damn efficient. The state of the art, orphan drugs, newly patented whiz drugs, probably won’t get universal distribution. Do you remember when Prilosec was prescription drug?

Preventative care… Like exersize and diet? Ask any frustrated primary health care doctor… which will do more? Universal health care or a brisk walk 45 minutes a day and fresh fruits vegetables … which would give the maximum benefit to the most amount of people?

We listen, and listen, and listen… we even ask questions to seek clarification but you never answer. You repost a “it’s common knowledge” phrase that was parsed and offered counterpoints. Like your wage disparity diatribe.

How much JoB? In dollars? would you be content with universal preventative health screenings? 3X per year physical exams up to the age of .. say 60? 100K cap after that for Medicare? After that you use the resources you should have save, or COULD have saved if so much of it didn’t go to building the scope and size of government or you opted to fully participate in consumption and maximum debt burdens, . Just cause you can imagine it .. doesn’t mean it is a cost we can all bear.

How much is enough JoB? See you duck the question just as congress does… that’s why we have no budget and deficits into eternity, No one wants to set the parameters. They just like to ask for unlimited resources… and such a thing never exists not n nature, not in economies. Should we just put a firm number on it…? Y’ know a budget?

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[JoB]

kootch..

“What is fair, where is the cut off point?”

what’s fair is that preventative medical care is available for everyone…

it’s not only fair.. it’s cost efficient.

the way our medical care is delivered now boarders on criminal..

the truth is that your insurance company has more to gain from denying you critical care than from providing it…

the longer they delay your care, the more they save.

that’s directly opposed to your needs..

the faster you get care the more likely you are to recover.

and you thought you had something to be worried about if that big bad nasty government got involved…

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[hooper1961]

i saw an article that states that the us spends 18% of national gross product on medical care; this is way too much.

obamacare mandates have increased costs and done little to control cost. i personally hope the supreme court rules it unconstitutional. the more effective leverage to ensure everyone buys health care insurance is simply to deny services to those that choose not to pay for insurance

and for cost control stop spending billions of limited public resources on 5% chance cures. if someone wants the 5% chance they can pay out of their own pocket.

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[miws]

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[redblack]

forget the wood. let’s get the kerosene!

hooper: obamacare hasn’t taken effect yet, outside of prohibiting insurance companies from denying coverage.

you can start running around with your hair on fire in 2014.

until then, any cost increases are just that old free market doing its thing, with a healthy dose of panic and FUD thrown in for good measure.

good fortune to you, though, as you struggle to work it out. have you checked out what assistance the state might offer?

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[kootchman]

Dollars JoB ..dollars… we measure in dollars when we are talking the public purse and health care. Is preventative care 2 physical exams per year and vaccines? We can afford that. Anything more, you pay? I am not swayed or even interested in one thing a liberal says or espouses until they put a dollar cost to it and a definition of the service they want from the taxpayers. See. you have a squishy definition of “preventive” care… like me paying for a behavior choice, unprotected sex. we have been down lala lane too many times.. we don’t hold hands anymore and skip to our later regret. Preventative care morphs into an ever increasing entitlement until it looks nothing like the intended program. Social Security is like that. It’s a typical chimera of added parts, extensions, “newly discovred” intentions… it ain’t the same animal the only thing we know it cost magnitudes more than we were told. Best not to give life’s breath to the beast inf the first place. AIDS by hypodermic needle for some drug rush.. want to take that off the table too? Or is a 30 grand per year drug regimen “preventive care”? At your annual, preventative health check-up where you are gently advised you are morbidly obese… and you do nothing about it… ya sorta keep packing an extra 150 lbs around at age 30…. the taxpayer is off the hook for the predictable consequences? Ya got the preventative care, a good diagnosis, the therapy is behavior control. If you refuse the therapy, we as taxpayers are done with it? Not our problem? when we can ascribe an illness and complications to behavior choices, it’s on the actor not the taxpayer. Does that fit your definition of fairness? Yes Some of Obamacare is in effect.. right now, costing states money, supposedly they are setting up the exchanges, Medicare was looted by 500 billion to do it. the parental mandate to cover adults until 26… has colleges raising insurance premiums through the roof to force students to use parental plans. Some have raised costs over 50%. works ok if you have parents, have working parents, or you are not emancipated. It’s a quick peek… tell ya if Obamacare does go through… the first Eyeman initiative will be for the state to drop state employee health plans… and it will pass with a 75% voter approval rate. I will sign that referendum is a second. Go ahead, fine the state $2,000 per employee… we will save billions. Yessir , let those underpaid state teaachers, firemen, bus drivers. ferry workers see those direct payroll deductions go to pay for the individual mandate.

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[JanS]

and when the illness has nothing to do with behavior patterns? Then what?

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[JanS]

hey, Hooper and Kootchman…want to save some money? Here you go..

http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/10-cheapest-cities-in-the-country.html

pick one…they’d welcome you with open arms, I’m sure ;-)

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[kootchman]

I believe we would have some combination of copay…. and a combination of a cap and age restriction. But I would say, adults should think long and hard as they plan for their security… do you want a 4500 square foot home and a $ ,5000 per month mortgage, or… a 1300 square foot home and purchase catastrophic health care coverage when you are young, it is cheap, and the value of the policy increases as you age. That is of course, recognizing that for most Americans… 1/3 of their income goes to taxes… even those too poor pay the income tax are going to get the sales, utility, metro, parking, tolls.. burdens too. Let’s not forget the hidden taxes to pay for pork.. the added dinner out taxes, motel rooms, rental car surcharges, … it’s a long long list. After age 60… you’ll have to have some coverages other than Uncle Sugar. Something to consider at age 25. If of course you can afford it… because at 22K per year for college… you’ll probably have a lot of debt.

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[kootchman]

My little mountain top retreat is all 17 acres is paid for and the .$146 per year agriculture land taxes are current. The barn is in good shape and the house is has had good tenants in it for years ( cousins) rent free to maintain it, How did that Davy Crockett song go? “born on a mountain top in Teneseee, greenest state in the land of the fre….”… I am still 40 per cent over the market price I paid for the crib here… I am just hoping they zone this puppy commerical hi-rise to stack more liberals on top of each other to maximize city property taxes. as an added good bye present.. it’s a nice town.. the mayor is the owner of the local True Value. paid 12K per year… the firefighters are volunteer, the ambulance service is also a volunteer force. muncipal owned utillity that charges Duke Power for right of way..to share switching and transmission line .there isn’t a breast feeding in public obsessed city council with $10,000 fines, a 100K per year bicycle coordinator,..and the local school district. seems to do fine.. the public library is in the school, that has no metal detectors, there is no anti plastic bag ordnance and no one cares much how or what direction you park your car… . well, it’s a red state.. , . there is no police force, no muni garbage service.., no ma’am I will be gone in about three years. Taking all my toys with me. The state is redder than war paint ochre and we will watch the fires in urban centers on satellite TV. And dosh garn it.. the local doc takes cash. Being a veteran, my meds are going to be freebies.. and if I need it, even the hospital. The price I paid as a young man to serve for less than 6K per year for 6 years… I put my life and youth at the service and … how did those orders read… “at the pleasure and discretion” of the then commander in chief Richard Milhouse Nixon. Just in case … Got a fair self funded retirement.. and the fishing money is my SS. I could have done better, but. ya can’t avoid all taxes. The local Baptist or Methodist church will, I am sure check in on me from time to time. As a vet, my hunting and fishing licenses are free too. I got what I wanted from here… if the fates are good, I may live a few extra years to enjoy it…. if not.. well. I did good by my heirs. They get a little jump start. well gosh darn it JaN Memphis eh? I am on the other side of the state… and Memphis is too seedy for me. world class moonshine too!

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[meg]

Mainly dietary choices, but also other lifestyle choices, are a huge cause of chronic disease in the USA. Our parabolic rising health care costs reflect this fact. Check out some of the recent documentaries about epidemic US obesity, diabetes, kidney failures, soaring heart disease, alzheimers, asthma, cancer, fatty liver disease, just to name a few.

I’m peeved with our medical/pharma/research/govt. industrial complex. THEY KNOW what is wrong. Yet, they don’t move on the information available.

We are addicted to the “food industry’s processed crap. It’s almost impossible to avoid it. And it’s ADDICTive. Kids are addicted, so are their parents and the communities around them.

In my church’s social hour, after the Sunday service (don’t worry, it’s a liberal WS church), they offer a table of refined and processed “yummy” stuff like cake, donuts, crackers, cookies. A small token tray of carrots, too. Do you think the kids are swarming to the carrots?

I have a message inside me, about this. 18 months ago, hubby and I decided enough is enough. He, with terrible asthma all his life, on multiple drugs just to breathe. He, with BP meds ,increasing doses and barely controlling his BP with TONS of exercise for over a decade. He, with low thyroid function, hair falling out and increasing dose of Levoxyl. We got the flu and colds each year, sinus conditions and allergies during the seasonal times. I had headaches, migranes mostly, since I was 15 years old. I had chronic joint pain and inflammation for a couple decades and it was slowly getting worse. I had horrible back pain, which flared up often. I had reflux that had gotten worse since the 1990s, even though I did the therapy MD ordered. I had PCOS.

I know it’s just a testimonial here. But 18 months ago, we decided to toss out of our lives everything processed and refined, and just eat nutrient-dense food, without any additives. I was moderately overweight, he was normal weight, but we wanted to take control of our medical situation. Yes, we had to prepare our food, from scratch. Yes, we eat a lot of fresh food, and we wash a lot of dishes. Yes, we allow ourselves to eat lots of saturated fats like butter, but we don’t eat any refined white flour or sweeteners. (Yes, I still LONG for something sweet, now and then – I am addicted.) BUT… Because of this change, hubby has lost his asthma (he had it since age 3), he was taken off BP meds, his thyroid med has been decreased 3Xs so far, and no more anti-depressants and his ADD/forgetfulness and foggy thinking is gone. I haven’t had headaches in months, no more RA, joint or back pain, no IBS, I have huge energy, great sleep, libido, and we both rapidly slimmed down without any effort. The pounds just melted off. I finally felt like exercising, after I lost the weight.

I’m just saying this because I feel we could take care of the entire population’s health if we focused on prevention of chronic conditions. REAL prevention. Not tests, not drugs, but lifestyle changes. And we, as a country, need to SUPPORT people who make those changes — and not treat them like strange freaks not eating the-yummy-easy “foods”. Just like the ol’ days when smoking went from trendy, to “Not cool, not healthy, not good for your body.” After we address diet and lifestyle, healthcare can concentrate on “out of our control” stuff like accidents and infections. And *that* healthcare can be cost-effective.

There, I’m done. Did I say too much or step on toes?

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[kootchman]

No sister you didn’t… I am putting in a 2 acre garden to putter in. I took classes in sugerless and low or no salt canning. I have enough heritage apple trees, cherries and peach trees to dry or can…more than enough for me. I aim to go grocery store free as I can… raise my own free range meat and turkey and chickens. … I might go bigger, gardening on contract for city folk… I will prepare the land, keep it organic certified, they can hire a couple of HS kids to weed and water it. Rural kids still work.

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[kootchman]

JoB…. I dunno where you get your health insurance. I get a monthly phone call from mine. Reminding me to get my eyes checked, at least 1 X a year. Giving me a nudge to see the doc if I miss my 90 day check up….all to prevent the costs of a stroke, heart attack, or the complications that tend to accompany my diabetes. Nooo indeed they do not discourage preventative care… they push it hard! Cracking open the old chest cavity is expensive as hell. Is your health insurance agent working out of a van under the viaduct or in one of the greenbelts? Government service? ha ha ha…. Job I have free health care now through the VA… ya think there might be a reason I don’t use it? Government efficiency and service… was there ever a more oxymoronic construction of words? You remember the old Laugh In..Lily Tomlin character….. “we’re the phone company, we don’t have to care”…. it applies. A government monopoly or GSE or regulated anything…. like how that TSA thing is working?

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[meg]

Congrats on your goals! And I’m envious of your 2 acre garden plot. I don’t have nearly that much space, but I have my front yard and another 100 sq. ft plot about 6 blocks away from home planted. Several of us renegades in the ‘hood are planting out about 1/4 of an empty lot, outside of the city’s P-patch oversight but with the owner’s okay. Keeps it free of charge, but makes us careful about water cuz we haul it in. In my back yard, I have a few 3-1/2 year old hens and an old rooster. We are hatching out our own eggs, right now — under our own broody mama so cute — so that we can have much better egg production next spring. Still, the chicken poop never slows and is garden gold. I’ve slaughtered two of my own — it’s not easy for me. At this point I don’t think we can produce all our own meat, except if we were to concentrate on rabbits. I’d love to raise ducks and even goats, but would need a lot more space. Where’s your rural land?

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[kootchman]

well, sorta near Gatlinburg TN… it’s gotten a lot more touristy… with the music theme park thing.. but.. the Appalachian renaissance thing is going on there too, pottery, furniture, basket weaving, art sculpture nearby… but the culture is strong enough to not become “Eugenized” .. I think. Overalls and a white shirt is formal attire… they celebrate the culture and origins.., not too much try to gentrify and liberalize and destroy it. Far enough away and close enough… The are ever careful and cautious of the arrival of them ” oh bless their hearts, but they sure do have strange notions” sorta arrivals. You can be Baptist or godless.. but a “liberal” church? Nah… that ain’t gonna happen. My healthcare provider isn’t in tune with the Medical/govt/ industry complex. All he can do is tell what will work.. and at some point I have to say no to somethings. And yes to others. But ya gotta wonder… the USDA sues the CDC to squelch a report on high fructose (corn syrup) and possible health detriments, while republican and democratic corn state senators support it … and ya watch 7-11 after school when mom or dad load up the kiddies with Slurpees…then the USDA gives grant money for a PR campaign to promote “sugar is sugar” national ad campaign as the food industry get more consumer pressure to use “natural” cane sugar.

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[meg]

I know. The latest ingredient, making me snort in the grocery store, was … “natural dried cane juice”. And at PCC. It sounded so wholesome and twas wrapped in that nice healthy-brown recycled heavy paper. But it’s freaking Sugar, and drags the liver down to yer knees. Killing ya delicious and slow with its fat cell producing, insulin-destroying fructose. Have you seen Dr. Lustig’s rage over Sugar & resulting modern childhood disasters the obesity diseases? Alzheimers, is now being called Diabetes Type 3. Holy cow, can’t we put 2+2 together? But hey, Congress can’t stop themselves from giving the big corn and ag subsidies for this toxic crap to keep it dirt cheap. I’d rather drink bleach.

Hey, good luck over in TN. I am actually godless, but last month we started going to this church b/c we thought it would be nice to integrate into a spiritual community or something. I thought about teaching a lesson there in nutrition tied to taking personal responsibility for understanding how our body works. Let’s see how well that goes over.

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[meg]

For anyone interested in US healthcare costs and the impact of modern chronic diseases, check out Dr. Robert Lustig, from Univ of CA Berkley, he is a Pediatrics Endocronologist and has been interviewed on “60 minutes” and other network programs. You will find him incredibly enlightening about the dire effect sugar and refined carbohydrates are having on global health. His hair is almost on fire about it.

His Youtube video presentation “Sugar, the Bitter Truth” is science-y and long, but very good if you want to know the facts and get your biology straightened out. He’ll tell you what happens inside.

UCSF-TV recently made a Youtube series this spring, called “The Skinny on Obesity” in about 8 parts, featuring Dr. Lustig and his colleagues in San Francisco who are doing the research. Check it out.

Don’t discredit Lustig just because his solution is political — to place a “cigarette” tax on sugar. There’s too much critical info to toss him out strictly on that point. What’s clear to me is that we all have to get our heads together to find a solution for this country’s nutritional armageddon. Personally, I think sugar should be outlawed, but I’m afraid of asking the govt. to take on even more power in this way, as it has already done more than enough trying to harm us by meddling with food laws and bestowing agricultural subsidies.

Anyway, I recommend checking out Dr. Robert Lustig.

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[kootchman]

we have a tax on sugar. That’s why we have high fructose. In order to prop up sugar cane prices and protect domestic growers… we have a harsh tariff policy on imported sugar. We subsidize corn sugar by making natural sugars more expensive… making a high calorie, nutrition and enzyme free sweeter the source of over 30 per cent of the average caloric intake of American kids. Lo and behold.. the entire food industry falls in, formulating products to best integrate corn syrup. Figures a UC Berkley prof would go right to “taxes” to fix a problem. what he will do is drain more money from the poor, the working poor…taxes are costs and costs are passed along to consumers.

I got a better idea. Stop using the tax code to engineer the world, CDC has all the information, The Department of Agriculture does. NIH does. How about just giving “consumers” truth.. and encouraging changes in behavior. Government won’t fix what they broke. In fact if the sugar tax works and it rases hugh revenues… they will put more of it out there. Don’r give em another line to snort. They will spend it, then come to depend on it…. and if the consumer wises up… they will have to tax something else to replace it.

Is there on endocrine, internal medicine doc out there that says… eat bleached flour, drink more slurpees have at least three sweetened colas per day, and shovel in white rice? Chew on sugar cured meats, and condiments?

Most of us will get sick early and often, plagued with limiting degenerative diseases, because of our food sources. THAT is the maximum good for our health dollars… not Obamacare. we just have another group of sucklers in the making… the makers of diabetes drugs worship so many gods… The God of Congress, The God of Department of Agriculture, The God of School lunch programs, and the big god… Lord of Government and Industry Collusion. Now everyone will be on Meformin or Glyberide…. at even younger ages. How about… a school lunch program and a daily brisk 35 minute walk with their teachers around the adjoining blocks everyday instead of … white boards, 6 hour work days and defined benefits and more administrative staff. ?

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[JoB]

Kootch..

“Being a veteran, my meds are going to be freebies.”

in the end..you are like so many others who cry for an end to government subsidies…

as long as you get yours.

you do know our current vets don’t get the same deal you did, don’t you?

and that those who now consume public health care dollars don’t have an insurance company to call them to remind them to take care of themselves?

the calls you get prove my point.

insurance companies know that preventative care is cost effective.

sadly, you may not find them quite as helpful when it comes time to shuck out the dollars for critical care.

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[JoB]

Marh,

some of our lifestyle choices weren’t exactly choices..

you left out pesticides, herbicides, radiation, commercial pollution, plastics and food processing .. and a host of other man-made wonders in your haste to blame people for their illnesses.

I am glad you have discovered the affects of processed foods and sugar on your health..

but some of us made those discoveries in the late 60s..

and still find ourselves with chronic health problems in our 60s…

it turns out this managing your health thing is far more complicated than you think.

that said.. cudos for gardening.

the explosion of p-patches does my heart good.

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[Author]

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