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March 11, 2012 at 10:03 pm #750084
miwsParticipantAlthough I’m not fully trustful of the Government, I trust ’em a hell of a lot more to decide what meds I should or shouldn’t get, than I do some Insurance company to do the same.
The Government-US– (you and me, not United States), ain’t perfect, but at least it’s not a for profit entity, that will base certain coverage, or non-coverage on the whim of bean counting stockholders and boards of directors.
Mike
March 11, 2012 at 10:04 pm #750085
kootchmanMemberNo one is even talking about transplants. We are talking about rationed health care. The federal government inserting itself into the patient doctor relationship and determining what therapy is appropriate… largely based on what the government will pay for.
That’s a death panel. Obama may call it something else. But death panels is what they are. JaN review your own attacks on others….I am not fixating on transplants.. the entire healthcare system will fall under government rationing. We call em’ death panels. And will continue to do so. Even the National Kidney Foundation is trying to get the death panels to lift the age limit for transplants. They do exist. Not for profit? The average federal worker makes more than twice what the average American worker earns…
March 11, 2012 at 10:16 pm #750086
kootchmanMemberHere ya go Mike… trust them at your peril. This is what happens when you “trust” the state. They will kill you. This is a death panel decision. My physician called it “unconscionable” malpractice. Note it was pushed on the poor.
“State pushes prescription painkiller methadone, saving millions but costing lives”
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2016987032_silent11.html
For the past eight years Washington has steered people with state-subsidized health care — Medicaid patients, injured workers and state employees — to methadone, a narcotic with two notable characteristics. The drug is cheap. The drug is unpredictable.
Over 1200 deaths by overdose… how many is too many Mike? 50, 500, 1000 ?? .. where do you stop trusting?
Funny, y’all get your skivvies in a bunch over the “threats” of recruitment and military service.. and state perscribed methadone has killed far more in our state.
Mike? See this? This is socialized medicine.
A case from 2009 epitomizes this divide. Two sisters, injured in a car accident in South King County, needed pain relief. One, with private insurance, received OxyContin, an expensive drug. The other, on Medicaid, received methadone — and within a week, overdosed and died ( Jan, this is a death panel)
While Medicaid recipients make up about 8 percent of Washington’s adult population, they account for 48 percent of the methadone deaths. WOW!
March 11, 2012 at 10:37 pm #750087
JanSParticipantI said I was done..I lied…you brought up death squads and transplant teams …you made it part of the conversation. You can’t now pretend you didn’t say it, and ignore it. But, of course…you’re right again, and you run the show so..sorry I brought it up.
Now I’m done.
Mike..it’s frustrating, but yes, I tend to agree with you. Every insurance company has a formulary. If you are paying for your insurance, it is up to the buyer to check out what that formulary is. I had to do so when I was signing up for Medicare a few months ago, and pick the one that would cover what I need to take. The scary part will be the anti-rejection drugs when I get a transplant. Medicare will pay for them for 3 years, and then I’m on my own. There is no perfect system. Fair and right? Hah! Look at this story : http://www.vcstar.com/news/2011/jul/22/medicare-limits-anti-rejection-drugs-that-need/
Many people don’t understand that Medicare is not a green light for anything goes. And..for the record, in case someone wants to bring this up – all of this has nothing to do with Obama, and the AHA. This was mandated way before he decided to become president.
March 11, 2012 at 10:42 pm #750088
DBPMemberkootch: There are two conclusions one can draw from the article you linked above.
In the smaller picture, the article supports what you’re saying: Don’t trust the government with your health care.
But in the bigger picture, the article suggests that the real problem here is not that Medicaid exists, but that the government doesn’t FUND it adequately.
Read the article over again, carefully. Why was the state’s Medicaid program pushing people to methadone over Oxycontin? —Because they thought methadone was the better choice for medical reasons? No!
They were pushing methadone because it was saving the state money.
And why were they trying to save money? —Because of funding cuts to the state’s Medicaid program.
For the past eight years Washington has steered people with state-subsidized health care — Medicaid patients, injured workers and state employees — to methadone, a narcotic with two notable characteristics. The drug is cheap. The drug is unpredictable.
[ . . . ]
In Washington, the poor have been hit the hardest. While Medicaid recipients make up about 8 percent of Washington’s adult population, they account for 48 percent of the methadone deaths.
To me, this seems like the most powerful evidence you could have cited AGAINST your own position on government funding of health care.
The evidence is clear: Funding Cuts = Death
March 11, 2012 at 10:45 pm #750089
kootchmanMemberYes indeed. I did not bring up death squads… I responded to a post …. about death squads. It IS all about Obamacare. The end game is to destroy the health care system so we can all be vassels of the state. See all those people in Greece? No where to turn, no other options… the state controls it all.
March 11, 2012 at 10:47 pm #750090
JanSParticipantAgain…let me be clear. President Obama has nothing to do with the policy to use methadone. I have taken it along with oxycontin and other things in a “pain cocktail”…years ago….like 16 years ago. These are policies that began way, way, way before the thought of being president entered into our Commander and Chief’s little head. But some will blame him, because he is to be blamed for everything evil that has ever happened in the world from day one.
Do I wish things were different? Of course, I do. But Medicare and Medicaid always paying for the cheaper drug is not the way it works. Medicare will pay for Lipitor, but not the generic of Lipitor, for instance. So, yes, I understand the stupidity of it all at times. Do I have the answers to help fix the system? Well, common sense should prevail, but..look at Congress…common sense? Not on your life. So..there you go…welcome to the “system”, Mike :)
March 11, 2012 at 10:49 pm #750091
JanSParticipantThanks, DBP..again…common sense..
March 11, 2012 at 10:54 pm #750092
miwsParticipantI’ll have to re-read both kootch’s and JaN’s linked articles at a later time.
Skimmed both, but each are too long for me to read right now with a headache. (Caused by my panties being all bunched up?)
BTY, I highly doubt that re-reading kootch’s article will change my mind, especially after the point that DBP brought up.
Mike
March 11, 2012 at 10:56 pm #750093
miwsParticipantOkay, JaN, you keep posting even though you’ve said at least twice that you’re done with it.
You’re going on my “hottie” list right up there with JoB! ;-)
Mike
March 11, 2012 at 11:04 pm #750094
waynsterParticipantlets see kootch is this what you said in post 41…..What’s next… for social acceptance and esteem… all men get covered for hair transplants from Bosley? There are death squads now Waynster… organ transplant teams do it every day. This country will be third world in short order … when you can’t balance a budget.
hmmmmm that’s what I read you said are you not telling me there are death squads in the organ transplant teams….a sorry to Jan would go along way…Had I known you would of took this that far I would of never said anything about Sara Palins death squad BS of obamacare…
I”m sorry I even brought this subject up Jan had I known that this would of went this far I would of never said it again I’M sorry
March 11, 2012 at 11:07 pm #750095
JanSParticipantlol, Mike…go take care of those panties. :)
I suppose my question to those who bitch about the system most is…what are you doing to fix it, besides bitching? We would all like to see things working differently than some of the things are. I suppose I’m not as much of a doomsayer as others are. I refuse to believe that we’re all just doomed and we should kiss our collective arses goodbye because of the man who is president. And..if you believe that any of those 4 GOP yahoos that want to be the candidate for Prez in the fall can really fix things overnight, then..are you actively working for them, campaigning, etc.? If you believe that our current congress is doing an exemplary job of working with the president to get anything accomplished, whether it’s healthcare, or jobs, or whatever, are you actively working to keep them there? If you believe that John Boehner has his thumb on the pulse of America and can steer his minions in the right direction with bills that would help the economy…wow…no suggestion there…I guess if you feel that way, you’re a bit deluded..but that’s my opinion. If you believe that Mitch McConnell feels the economy of this country the most important thing in his job, do you wear a tin hat? Or would you say so on here unashamedly?
Just meandering thoughts..
March 11, 2012 at 11:13 pm #750096
kootchmanMemberIt is the genesis, the trajectory of government plans that they outspend their resources. It has happened with SS, Medicaid, etc.. both systems are unsustainable.
Yet, you want to birth a bigger system.
More is what we have been doing for SS and Medicaid … and both systems are not self sustaining. We have to borrow money at a prodigious rate to sustain them. We take both current revenues and the future revenues of generations to come. (don’t use panties mike.. Well, unless you wear them…then it is ok… I used gender neutral “skivvies… it’s more pc )
OK DBP… both systems cannot be sustained at their current funding levels. Both use current revenues and amass future debt obligations. It’s that simple. Where do you want to start cutting? The state DID however decide to use methadone… it could have also not done many other things. Where is this magic piggybank that will solve all the ills? Did you note that the picked the poor first to save their millions? Make some choices… instead of everything for everyone….at any cost , with as much debt as the world bond market will tolerate. Geez FDR was content to put a “chicken in every pot”… what won’t you turn down to save Medicaid. BTY … it was the state of WA that decided to use methadone… they had many more options. That was WA states priority.
March 11, 2012 at 11:20 pm #750097
miwsParticipantMarch 12, 2012 at 12:19 am #750098
JanSParticipantMikey…I’ll bite…why?
March 12, 2012 at 12:22 am #750099
miwsParticipantMarch 12, 2012 at 12:32 am #750100
jamminjMembergeez kootch, you are just a walking manual of gop talk. Funny how when a dem is in office, SS is falling… but when the other side is running things, its all okey dokey.
We hear the sky is falling on SS, what about, every 5-8yrs or so.
Is there a problem sure, but you are missing the boat.
Who funds those programs, its us, the workers.
guess what, wages in this country have become stagnant, well except the top 3-5%.
Hmmm, better salaries, more taxes paid (NOT raised %), and then programs not cut for those in need.
But I guess some need 2 Cadillacs to make ends meet, so we must cut social programs.
Funny how you always ignore one of our biggest social program – our military. You want to pick and choose what YOU don’t like, but if someone speaks up for SS Medicare health care… you argument resorts to demeaning them. If you hate socialism, then attack and argue against all of it – when you start picking and choosing, you loose (well in your case, lost) any credibility in your arguments.
March 12, 2012 at 3:00 am #750101
redblackParticipantNo one is even talking about transplants. We are talking about rationed health care.
for-profit insurance companies invented rationed health care.
and they don’t want anyone cutting in on their racket. see?
March 12, 2012 at 9:34 pm #750102
kootchmanMemberStagnant because? You think it all went upstream? Your stagnant wages are building the new China. Total global income has risen dramatically. OK.. the two treaties NAFTA, and China.. both signed into law by Democrats. Remember this? And we have been at it ever since because we are so deep into deficits spending for all the goodies…. we won’t shut the door to our crack dealer.
Your wages stagnate and decline because you compete with $120 per month labor in China.
Now let’s see just how Barak Hussein Obama is going to get all those manufacturing jobs back…? Someone might whisper in his ear “dude’ it takes energy to run those plants…. and you are doing your very best to raise our energy rates as high as possible.” Your EPA, DOJ, have assaulted every coal powered plant in the country… which happen to provide over 70% of our electric power.
Early today (11/15/99), President Clinton announced the finalization of trade agreements between the United States and China that will make it possible for China to join the World Trade Organization.
Under the terms of the agreement, China will remove its existing trade barriers and be granted permanent normal trade relations (NTR) status by the U.S., thus allowing Beijing favored access to U.S. markets.
Permanent NTR status used to be called “most favored nation” status and would ensure goods from China the same reduced-tariff rates as products from most other nations. This will allow U.S. businesses to take advantage of China’s agreement to reduce its tariffs and lower its other barriers to trade.
March 12, 2012 at 9:49 pm #750103
kootchmanMemberRemember ole Ross Perot…? ” That sucking sound will be your jobs going overseas.” Seems he was right after all.
March 13, 2012 at 12:24 am #750104
oddrealityParticipantObamacare ,Obamacare,Obamacare…bad bad bad..Bleech…
Santorum does not want us to trust the government with our health care. Guess where his health care comes from? Yes, he gets government health care from his stint in the government .Good enough for him but not good enough for the masses ,eh?What a freakin’ hypocrite.
On Meet the Press this last Sunday he was upset as enough is not spent on special needs children….well Obama care would fix that for most people. At least they could get insurance to help with the care of their special needs kids the same way that hypocrite gets his..via government assisted health care.
Every single person in this country deserves basic health care.If you want a face lift pay for it yourself. If you want a tummy tuck..same. BUT the basics?? We should all be in a pool to cover that.I have rarely used my health insurance in all the fourty + years I have had it. I am sure one day I will need it. That is when the pooled money comes in.I do not mind at all having helped pay for others to have surgeries or needed health care of any sort. I know that one day I will need it.Then they will help to pay for my needs. THAT is how it should work in this country. We are fast becoming a 3rd world country. No one, I repeat NO ONE should lose their home because they need surgery or other expensive health care.No one should lose their life because they can’t afford the treatments or medications. We are still, for awhile anyway , the richest country in the world. We should act like it.Quit being so greedy, you may need us all one day.
March 13, 2012 at 12:38 am #750105
JoBParticipantjust reading this is demoralizing…
kootch ..
what part of the fact that your insurance company is rationing health care as we speak don’t you get?
what part of the fact that you want to see health care rationed do you think we don’t get?
March 13, 2012 at 1:30 am #750106
oddrealityParticipantI wish this would happen to all the Obama care naysayers.
Who exactly do you think covers the costs of bankruptcies??
March 13, 2012 at 2:37 am #750107
JoBParticipantoddreality
it’s ok with them if we pick up their tab
they just don’t want to pick up anyone else’s
March 13, 2012 at 3:41 am #750108
DBPMemberWell said, Odd-R (Post #71)
How can a politician on taxpayer-subsidized health care claim that what’s good enough for him is too fancy for the rest of us? What a hypocrite.
For years I was getting anti-Obamacare SPAM e-mails from my 70-something cousins in Orange County. They’d all had artificial knees, triple-bypasses, mobility scooters, you name it . . . paid for by Medicare. And now they had the gall to complain about “socialized medicine”?
Puh-leeez!!
Finally, I got tired of it. I told them: Look, if you hate socialized medicine so much, here’s what you do . . .
A) Calculate the sum total of all your knee jobs, bypasses, scooters, etc.
B) Calculate the total $ you’ve paid into Medicare over the years.
Subtract B from A. That’s the amount of your personal socialized medicine benefit.
Please remit that amount to the government.
THEN you can squawk about socialized medicine.
Â
(I never heard another peep from them about socialized medicine.)
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