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May 16, 2012 at 2:28 pm #756841
JoBParticipantredblack
i think i love you
kootch
don’t have the time or the energy for your rants today
it’s not that you can’t see
you don’t want to
May 16, 2012 at 5:22 pm #756842
miwsParticipantOh christ, here we go again…..
Screw the weak….the dying…..the dead…it’s the thinning of the herd…..
I wonder how many of the “vultures” go to church on Sunday, and pray, (heh, almost typed “prey”—Freudian slip?) and celebrate how moral they are, and stuff.
(Disclaimer: The above post was not meant as a slam against religious people/churchgoers in general. I have some very dear friends right here in the WSB community that are Christians, that actually walk the talk)
Mike
May 16, 2012 at 7:08 pm #756843
kootchmanMemberIf you want to see a screwing of the weak and the dead Mike… look to the countries that cannot afford to provide for them. That’s the argument at hand. Can we grow the economy, add jobs, and stop throwing the national treasure at debt interest expense is the issue at hand. The numbers tell how bad the story is. Watch Greece. They cut health, pensions, salaries, every social program they have. by 20% and there is still doubt they can afford that. See the WSJ… today. The numbers may be wrong… it’s from memory.. but those that still have some Euros left, took over 800 billion out of the banks while it still had some value, We are trying to avoid it, not embrace it.
May 17, 2012 at 12:18 pm #756844
redblackParticipantyour support for HS rail… just took a monstrous hit. That California line is dead. California is 16 billion in debt, not counting their pension shortfall…. and they can;t come up with matching funds.
you must be so proud to see that reaganomics and free trade have finally borne fruit.
congratulations.
however, maybe governor moonbeam’s plan to increase revenue will gain traction.
you know, kootch, when you set out to break something – in this case, government and taxation – and you succeed, it’s easy to say, “look! it’s broken!”
jo: right back atcha. :)
May 17, 2012 at 2:51 pm #756845
JoBParticipantkootch…
why don’t we look to the countries that can no longer afford to provide for their weakest members…
and ask ourselves just how they got there.
Contrary to the current fart machine
it wasn’t by providing for their weakest members
almost any country in South America these days had proven the lie in that “common knowledge”.
they got there by following the US down the rabbit hole of unadulterated profit.
oh my.. lions and tigers and bears oh my
BIG YAWN
do you know any other tunes?
May 17, 2012 at 7:49 pm #756846
kootchmanMemberDo you know this tune “Brother Can Y Spare Me A Dime”? it’s an old old old one. Reaganomics? redblack..? c’mon the man has been dead for over a decade now. You’ve had Democrats in the Congress and White House longer than republicans since his final term… and it sure hasn’t gotten better has it? Borrowing 40% for every buck ya spend? The reason your vaunted light rail is dead.. is California is broke. It can’t pay for its share of the matching funds that the other 49 states kicked in. Like Illinois, who is as bad a shape and NY,.,. (see a trend here…blue states) the candy store is empty. What we are trying to avoid so fervently is your federal government stops going down the same path… so we can serve the safety net , not construct a gazebo as a lounge for every special interest group that makes a campaign donation. When the government takes every nickel it can to support itself… when it runs out of money… the dream machine is over. Your light rail died in the arms of the California legislature who never heard the world “no”. Profits are what get taxed JoB… the more ya get taxed, the more ya have to raise prices… and on and on the circle goes… prices rise, consumers get squeezed, taxes go up, producers get squeezed… but not to worry right? … sales taxes go up for state government, federal income taxes go up for individuals… and who gets bigger and bigger and bigger? The road to hell is paved with good intentions… isn’t that the expression? You know who get theirs first …. government. The city is pretending it know business again… it wont invest more than 250 million in the new stadium… how much is a water hook up to N’Ville… probably less than a couple of days interest expense for the new stadium. Who is shredding the safety net…. hell they are an irritating distraction. City Council gets y’all hyped up, roll out the cameras, a few expressions of empathy… and they roll ya back for a few more months wondering when you will tire of the game… cause you don’t deliver votes .. like city employee unions do.
May 17, 2012 at 8:23 pm #756847
miwsParticipantMay 17, 2012 at 10:19 pm #756848
kootchmanMemberIs that the new City Council proposal for N’Ville Mike? Wouldn’t surprise me. One way I assume.
May 17, 2012 at 11:09 pm #756849
kootchmanMemberWell JoB I would say that few countries have the traditions and the legal frame work to support wealth creation. Given that we have done so like no other nation on earth, I would say those two elements constitue the basis for our success. There is improvement needed in arena of “equal opportunity”, by gender, by sexual orientation, by race,… but, there is a reason I am not a forward for Manchester United… it has nothing to do with the opportunity, I certainly played in school, college, clubs.. the simple fact is I didn’t have the talent or the ability .. outcomes are never assured. But for all the nit picking… the numbers are there, posted. The top 10% cannot solve the problem. I am waiting to hear from the left … what they are willing to cut, to bring the federal expense in line with the federal revenue. Just a hint. But there will be no new taxes until there are some serious cuts. There is the compromise so eloguently proposed by the Presidents Blue Ribbon Panel… Simpson Bowles. There was NO compromise in the first 2 years of this administration.. NOW you want compromise? Well, guess what? Romney has a record of compromise. Just like Obama never governed like he campaigned… I doubt Romney will govern like he campaigned. Of the two, observing the respective records of both.. not the records of community organizer or private equity fund manager… as elected officials, Romney actually can make a coalition. He has done so.
May 17, 2012 at 11:18 pm #756850
kootchmanMemberredblack….. however, maybe governor moonbeam’s plan to increase revenue will gain traction.
Revenue from whom?
1.2 million people have exited California… the three top destination states? Texas, Florida, and Nevada. Care to guess what all three have in common? And they didn’t exit South Los Angeles, Alameda or Contra Costa … they left from San Francisco, San Leandro, Napa, Santa Clara, Ventura, Orange, Santa Cruz, and Marin counties.
California is falling apart over a $16 billion dollar deficit…. paralyzed. But the states ever tell ya how much in the hole they are because of civil servant benefit plans?
Here’s a taste.
Mind boggling numbers….
Just when things couldn’t be more challenging for California’s budget, we are discovering that the shortfall in three major public employee pension funds (CalPERS, CalSTRS and the UC Retirement System) is far worse than expected. According to our analysis, these three funds face a $500 billion shortfall, about six times this year’s state budget.
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/04/06/EDOA1CQGL5.DTL#ixzz1vAlZus6g
And the single largest contributor to the Obama 2008 campaign?
The UC California pension PAC… second largest? Harvard Unive pension fund… and then.. with an almost astonishing amount of hubris… the tax payer is accused of not supporting higher ed and the states and the poor middle class wonders why they have to borrow 50K to get Johnny and Suzy into a public college and why the college costs are rising faster than healhcare costs…
The Garden State—New Jersey— is staring down a $46 billion dollar deficit and Illinois is faced with a $78 billion of red ink.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/42916957/The_State_of_Pensions
And you support a union sponsored recall for Scott Walker who asked unions to contribute 5% more to their own retirement fund and limit raises and benefits to the rise in the Consumer Price Index? That’s “union busting”? !!! What’s next? The 10% have to pay a “special” sales tax rate… 20 times the rate of everyone else?
May 18, 2012 at 3:17 am #756851
JoBParticipantkootchman
wealth creation?
The problem is that you seem to have forgotten that wealth creation that produces nothing but wealth is not self sustaining.
May 18, 2012 at 1:18 pm #756852
redblackParticipantahh, the pension fund crisis. yeah, we basically transferred the assets of the collective retirement funds of the more populous and unionized blue states directly to the big banks with TARP.
retribution for voting for obama?
http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/pensions-2011-02.pdf
Most of the pension shortfall using the current methodology is attributable to the plunge in
the stock market in the years 2007-2009. If pension funds had earned returns just equal to
the interest rate on 30-year Treasury bonds in the three years since 2007, their assets would
be more than $850 billion greater than they are today. This is by far the major cause of
pension funding shortfalls. While there are certainly cases of pensions that had been underfunded
even before the market plunge, prior years of under-funding is not the main reason
that pensions face difficulties now. Another $80 billion of the shortfall is the result of the
fact that states have cutback their contributions as a result of the downturn.
“oops. we’re leveraged out 30-1. this thing is going to crash and i’m going to lose at least one of my jets and my house in the hamptons!”
“hey! look! those lazy union peasants have almost $3 trillion in retirement funds parked in our banks! let’s take it!”
wealth creation? for whom?
yeah. reaganomics. voodoo economics. supply-side. trickle-down. low taxes. usurious interest and low rates of return for the public.
you voted for it. not me.
it’s like the guy wrote in the article jo linked in the “what’s good for business is good for america” thread: they’re paying us with a new currency:
debt.
they own our government, our retirement funds, our homes, our cars, our credit cards, and our student loans.
and those captains of industry on wall street – and guys like willard romney – are getting rich by selling us debt.
you’d better wake up.
May 18, 2012 at 1:39 pm #756853
redblackParticipantwhich leads me to wonder at what point we take our pension funds back? at what point to we flip wall street the bird, move our money back to t-bills, and start funding our government – and our retirements – again?
May 18, 2012 at 2:56 pm #756854
miwsParticipantNo, kootch.
Just a public service for those that are extremely dissatisfied with Government…. ;-)
Mike
May 18, 2012 at 2:59 pm #756855
JoBParticipantredblack
wall street is flipping us the bird
they are becoming our new landlords
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/05/carrington-hedge-fund-foreclosure-rental
May 18, 2012 at 3:20 pm #756856
kootchmanMemberStill no answers… there are the budget numbers.. the income figures are easy to assess… stop ignoring the question. Is the only answer you have is to tax your way to prosperity? Well if wealth is not sustaining… why do we invest in crony businesses of this administration…. ya just throw some money at it, watch it go up as vapor and then hit the taxpayer up for another go around?
May 18, 2012 at 3:56 pm #756857
kootchmanMemberGreat! Perfect! Now the home loans that were made to those who couldn’t afford them by our FHA have owners. Clears up the surplus inventory, maybe helping the largest source of middle class Americans’ wealth stabilize and start to rise in value again. Puts some distressed assets into productive economic use again. If they are your landlord… you had no business buying a home in the first place. They are taking a heck of a load off the taxpayer… I don’t want to pay for them. do you? See? Another screw up by the federal government and the market is solving it. AND better yet.. they have investors… to put private money at risk … investors. God bless em’… or would you prefer the Central Bank of China to own em’ ?
May 18, 2012 at 4:06 pm #756858
kootchmanMemberNo redblack… let’s read this like it is. One, the defined benefits plans made assumptions… and the states knew it. Washington for instance.. assumed a rate of return of 6 per cent in order to be able to honor those benefits. See Scott Walker…. NO wage or benefit increases that exceed the CPI… to do otherwise is inflationary.
The state had to go to the markets and do a little dice rolling … because those T Bills would have never met the obligations, But if you are suggesting that only T Bills are in the civil service retirement portfolio…. perfect. But you are correct in one respect, markets go up and down, business is cyclical… and defined pensions are suicide. You can’t promise a fixed benefit without a fixed return… not now, not ever. If it’s good enough for the rest of us.. who have to live through 401K fluctuations… it’s good enough for civil servants.
TYour article DIDN’T state that the pension obligations would have been met with T Bills… just that because CalPers and others would have been less damaged. Stop overpromising on state pensions would be the solution,,, kill defined benefits and there would be no deficit… because the states wouldn’t owe but what the market returned. The price for buying union votes gets high indeed.
May 18, 2012 at 4:36 pm #756859
JoBParticipantkootchman
the answer is simple
it’s basic economics
austerity measures work best in an up market
this isn’t an up market
it’s time to stimulate the economy so it can grow
jobs programs are the only answer that makes sense
because jobs programs stimulate production
and stimulated production produces taxes
and without revenue the deficit doesn’t shrink
i am guessing that isn’t the answer you wanted
is it?
May 18, 2012 at 5:00 pm #756860
miwsParticipantThat Rose dude sounds like one dandy fellow!
Yep! Buy up all of them foreclosed homes of all of them loser bags that made bad choices in purchasing their mortgages.
Like the couple who chose to give birth to a child with severe and costly medical issues that their insurance company refuses to cover.
Or, that wife/mother who chose to succumb from breast cancer, wiping out her families savings, attempting to pay off the medical bills, beyond what their insurance company covered.
Or, that Soldier, that chose to give his life, for his Country, in Iraq, leaving his family with no income.
Damn, people sure make bad choices…
Mike
May 18, 2012 at 9:15 pm #756861
JanSParticipantit is astounding to me the things that go back and forth in this election…and then…from the wonderful forward thinking state of Arizona comes this:
May 18, 2012 at 10:48 pm #756862
kootchmanMemberJoB there is plenty of “stimulus” money. Oooodles of it. Drop the corporate tax rate, give it a tax holiday .. and stop being so seethingly anti-business. we are at least two years into this debate… and the trillions of retained earning are still out of reach..as i said they would be. Ya can’t tax what isn’t here. You’d think by now you would sorta take a peek at the notion. You are not going get 35% of the value of overseas assets just cause ya want it. Yea Mike.. shit happens and some isn’t good. … uh ya might want to check your facts.. a KIA family receives a death benefit of 100K, non taxable.. most soldiers can and do get SGLI when deployed to a combat zone up to $400K..they certainly do if they have dependents. . tax free. Sure beats the 20K we got. Some states also grant free college education in a state school. Some things can never be made whole…and life sure isn’t risk free. So whatcha think Mike…? Are “we” supposed to pay off those mortgages? I didn’t make the bad choice to over leverage myself? I didn’t buy a 400K home with zero down and not enough income to make the payment. Those houses are worth what the market will pay for them. OK.. what government entitlement are you going to cut to pay for it? SS? Medicare? food stamps, disability? AZ sure cares not much how the rest of the country looks at em’…. I am thinking they are sending a message Jan…. you probably wouldn’t enjoy it as a destination state to retire. But you know.. Holder started the war of politics, with a nod from his buddy. Bringing lawsuits against voter ID which the Supreme Court already settled..Crawford v Marion County. just to harass Gov. Brewer. and SC ..frivolous, petty, federal harassment….. or his DOJ suit against Joe Arpaio… or the DOJ lawsuit against immigration laws being enforced by the state of AZ. It’s petty, has no chance of success… but it is entertaining to see the Administration get a bit of their own medicine.
May 18, 2012 at 11:28 pm #756863
JanSParticipantaw, heck, no…too hot in AZ for me…
message? yeah…the message they’re sending to me is one of a bit of craziness…lol…
May 18, 2012 at 11:33 pm #756864
kootchmanMemberIt’s Goldwater country…
May 18, 2012 at 11:37 pm #756865
kootchmanMemberThe good news… Holder now has liberals calling for some serious congressional slap down…. the truth will out over Fast and Furious…. what the deal now is… it was all manufactured by DOJ to be able to call for more gun control… to make a political statement they killed two federal officers and who knows how many Mexican nationals… a contrived gun running operation to advance a political agenda. That’s what they are hiding. If true… it will bring down this administration. The White House had prior knowledge. Even Van Jones is on board….strange bedfellows indeed. These are the things that make for nasty elections.
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