Six months after moving into the ex-Doxa church building, Mars Hill-WS will expand to two Sunday services on October 7th: 9 and 11:15 am. One other MH-WS note; the church will have a large group at Alki one week from tonight for a mass baptism.
Freakin’ sweet! I assume that means the Jesus bus rumbling by my house twice as much Sunday mornings. “Pull weeds for Jesus, paint a wall for Jesus.” How about “Walk your big butt three blocks for Jesus”? Anyone else notice how they put out traffic cones so nobody parks in the way of their bus route? Sheesh.
The parking problems they have caused are annoying. First they took over Austin…but have since put out a traffic person to deter people from parking on Austin. So now they swarm to the other side streets like Webster.
Park in your bus lots! That’s why the church got buses. If you are late…too bad. Or park on 35th – there is plenty of parking along there but stay off the side streets.
Personally I believe a facility like that should be required to supply their own parking lot within walking distance – if they can’t – then tear it down and build townhomes. “Townhomes for Jesus”. That works.
People get mass baptized in West Seattle? No way.
I don’t understand West Seattle any more sometimes.
Better yet, people get mass baptized at Alki. That’s one COLD baptism!!
Am I the only one a bit creeped out by these rock & roll suburban mega-churches? I’m very spiritual and have no problem with the concept of ‘worship’. But I’ve always believed spirituality is the most personal quest possible. The very point is your self discovery and finding your place in the larger universe and relationship with the divine…whatever that is to you. Every ‘instance’ of the divine is just a human concept of something so far greater than us it can’t be conceived so it’s wrapped into a form the human brain can deal with.
But these huge very rich churches always strike me and counter productive to the true struggle. Go to church (before the football game) once on Sunday afternoon and that counts as your connection with the divine? They seem far more like big social political (and they do get into politics) organizations than anything truly spiritual. Mixing that much politics and money into spirituality seems far too dangerous. But that’s just me. :)
I’m a little creeped out too, but then my life has been pretty secular.
So at Mars Hill, Beer–OK, tatoos–OK, premarital sex–not so OK. Hmmm.
From their website:
Hence, Mars Hill Church is in favor of good beer (in moderation), great sex (in marriage), and even tattoos (Jesus has one). But our goal must always be love and concern for our friends so that we don’t enjoy our freedom at the expense of their faith.
My feelings on the “baptism”…Get yourself a giant kiddie pool, set it up at your church, and baprise away. Having this “mass baptism” at Alki isn’t about what the people being baptised believe, because if it did, it could occur anywhere, not in such a public place as Alki on maybe a warm Friday night, when Alki is at it’s busiest, with dinner goers, etc. Talk about parking problems. My opinion, and my opinion only, is that they are making a statement, advertising their religion, if you will. Showing off for the masses of the “unbelievers” out there. The very kinds of people, that, if stories are right, Jesus would have shunned….
again…my opinion only…
Regarding the parking problem – to be fair, it should be noted, if you follow the link we placed inline to the Mars Hill page about the Alki event, they are urging participants to shuttle from a parking area they apparently have procured at West Seattle HS. Although where they’re going to find space for buses to drop people off at the beach on a late-summer Friday night, heaven only knows.
Astounding.
The above comments, not the church.
Moving here ten years ago I was under the impression that Seattle was an accepting place for all, but I’ve come to realize that if one has a Christian faith they are poked fun at and their intelligence is questioned.
Perhaps if I were a practising Wiccan transsexual y’all would be more accepting and accommodating of my chosen lifestyle.
Thanks, neighbors!!
I was resisting commenting, but I couldn’t. I do not attend Mars Hill, so I have no affiliation, but…
Water baptism is an outward expression of an inward change in a Christian. It is a public thing as you are signifying to the world that you are dead to sin and alive in Jesus Christ. That you recognize that you have broken God’s laws (10 commandments) and that Jesus paid that price of your law breaking when He was murdered on the cross.
During the early church it was a big deal to be baptized in public, especially for the Jew since his/her whole family would kick them out of house and home and synagouge if the repented and put their trust in Jesus. It is always a public thing, but, just like going to church, it doesn’t save you from God’s just punishment.
Also, the Christian is making the statement that truth is not relative and that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and that no one can come to God except thorugh Him. So the Christian believes that all other religions, beliefs, etc.. are wrong and Jesus is right.
I hope this helps. God Bless.
Under_Achierver. I can’t say you’re wrong. There is more of a secular thread in Seattle more than say Alabama. True. But all things being equal, you’re still FAR better off being a Christian in Seattle, than I am being openly gay in Alabama. You don’t have it that bad. You might have to put up with a snide comment or two, but you won’t get taken out behind a bar and beaten to death because some redneck ‘thought’ you were coming on to him.
I’ll take bitchy comments over a Matthew Shepard event. The day some Christian is hauled out of church and beaten to death by a bunch of atheist partical physicists we can talk…but I don’t see that happening any day soon.
Point very well made by David.
Does Mars Hill have any gay members? How about women preachers? Let’s not beat around the bush; this is a largely homophobic and misogynistic organization. Like most Christian faiths, they say they are accepting, but in fact are intolerant and do not practice nor teach equal rights. Not all members of the church may agree on these items, but by attending MH, they are openly supporting those views.
Does it disappoint me to know that a group with these views is growing? Damn right. People have a right to assemble and practice whatever faith they choose, but it doesn’t mean I have to support it.
I live a couple blocks from this place and have also seen people out setting up cones early in the morning to mark off spots along 34th. Can’t they get up early enough to catch a bus for JC? Bussing for Jesus…it will be one of their most successful campaigns!
I honestly didn’t know people still got baptized, let alone did it in a group in public.
I was expressing surprise that a church like this is thriving and growing in West Seattle.
I can respect someone as a person but not agree with certain of their religious beliefs.
And I do attend a Unity church occassionally. Sheesh…I’m not totally spiritually constipated. ;-)
I don’t give a rat’s *** who or what you believe/worship. I’d prefer your worship not involve diesel buses chugging thru my ‘hood multiple times on Sun a.m. or clogging up neighborhood streets with your cars. It’s laughable how some peeps defer and deflect stright to the “Christian victim” defense, when the religion is secondary (at best) re: the complaint. If it were a gaggle of Avon ladies or Tupperware hockers I’d have the same complaints.
No Christian victim defense from me Bill. Only an observation of interesting attitutes expressed by of some of my West Seattle neighbors.
Anyone who kills in the name of Christ or God is not, I repeat, not a Christian. You can not find any biblical suppport for this in the new testament at all. None.
In this country we are not being beaten out in the streets, yet, but in many countries in the world this does go on.
Jesus was also very intolerant of sin and sinful practices, and so should the Christian, but the Christian should know how to present the gospel, and then it is up to the person hearing it to recieve it. The Christian continues to be friends, love and pray for their neighbor.
maybe I should make myself clear…I’m not against baptism (was myself a long time ago), nor am I against doing it in public – and by public I mean your own congregation – it matters not a hoot if you do it in front of me. I suppose I’m not crazy about the time and location of said public baptism. Weather is going to be warm, crowds come out on Friday night. And some of those crowds are boisterous and raucous. And..at what part of Alki will this be taking place? In the middle of a hot game of beach volleyball? Why not a baptism at dawn as the sun comes up…a new day beginning, just as it’s (I would think) a new day for the one’s being baptised. And the beach is all yours. I just gather that they are more in making a very public statement than being about the true reason of baptism – it’s about the show (again, my opinion). I’m not bashing christians…people are entitled to believe whatever they want. I’ll be tolerant of them , if they will be tolerant of me if I believe something different than they do. I will never try to bring you over to “my side”. It’s simply my business.
Kayleigh…I love that..”not spiritually constipated”…perfect…
“and even tattoos (Jesus has one)” Mars Hill really says this? and we know this how? we don’t even know what the man really looked like, for goodness sake…
I’m surprised by MH in west seattle too; I”m not about to start drinking their coolaid, but one of these Sundays I’m going to WALK over there and attend a service to see what they are saying. And I’ve got several friends that are going to join me (we all watched Jesus Camp). It’s tempting to be judgmental, so I’m withholding forming an opinion until I see what it’s all about.
I generally think that most people who aren’t religious don’t want the religious people being so pushy with their beliefs. That’s what I don’t like (Mormon’s and Christian Evangelicals take note). I’m glad it works for them, but I don’t want to hear about it. A lot of non-religious people are quite happy and don’t need to be saved. Work on yourself and don’t worry about other people.
Hi Jan–thanks…I took that paragraph from their website.
http://www.marshillchurch.org/content/WhatWeBelieve
I actually was interested in what their theology was, because I see so many young people attending. So I looked them up.
I also watched JesusCamp because it received such critical acclaim…and I also did attend a MH service to see what it was all about (and parked illegally, thank you.)
There is a parallel between these two. Rent the DVD at Blockbuster, and you’ll start to see for yourself.
FWIW…debating the misogyny and proselytism are useless/fruitless unless you can do so in relation to scripture. The debates essentially precipitate to belief or non-belief. You can’t debate law of gravity with a flat Earth society member. Cherry picking particular passages and interpretation to one’s perceived advantage seem to be hallmarks of current religious movements. It’s human nature, and to be expected.
on the sex issue, don’t forget, homosexuality is a no-no.
and women in power are okay, as long as it’s not the position of head honcho.
sheesh.
Religion is so devisive; for something that is supposed to bring so much inner peace, it certainly has caused a lot of wars, deaths, and now, parking issues.
oh m, without religion, you would still have wars, deaths and parking issues.
Bill, I think that the debates come down to, truth and non-truth. But debating truth to relativists is like trying to explain light to a bunch of blind people. So I say, read the Bible yourself and ask, what did the author intend it to mean. Don’t read it and ask, “what does this mean to me”, read it and ask yourself, “What is the author saying”. That’s how you stay away of misinterpretations.
Wes, I think you’re half right on your statement above. The majority of wars in all of history are linked back to religion in one form or another (including the current war). One of the only positive things that religion has brought society is morality. We absolutely would not have morals without religion. What I personally struggle with is the fact that most popular religions (Christianity, Judiasm, etc) require you to accept a particular diety as the supreme authority and your morality is related to the relision/diety. I don’t agree. I feel that you can live a very moral lifestyle without having to worship a particular religion.
WES…that would be AUTHORS…many of them…and it IS open to interpretation…what’s truth for me may not be truth for you. It will always be that way. It is that narrow minded thinking that YOUR way is the ONLY way that creates a lot of the divisiveness. How in God’s name did you get to be the only expert on what that book says?
I don’t want to get all scientific and bring up history, sociology and psychiatry…the but idea that you wouldn’t have morality without religion is cute…silly and naive, but cute.
That would imply that the most violent/criminal people are the least religious. That it takes religion to pacify the violent human ‘animal’. The opposite is true. Atheist/non-religious make up 5%-9% of the population depending on the polling. But oddly make up only 0.209% of prison populations…the rest identify with one religion or the other (Federal Bureau of Prisons statistics on religious affiliations of inmates, March 1997)
That means atheist organization should be the most likely to attack each other…but in fact the greatest number (not all, but the vast majority) of wars/conflicts has been between people of some religious faith or another. They all believe their god is on their side and/or they’ll go to some ‘heaven’ anyway so it’s ok to blow themselves or someone eles up.
I’m “not religious” in that I don’t belong to any organized social/political organization. My parents still taught me right and wrong, not to steal, etc. And I have empathy, a built in human emotion where I can imagine my hurting someone else and how that would feel. I don’t need to “fear” that a magic floating sky goat will eat me if I’m bad to keep me from doing bad things. I don’t do bad things because I choose not to be that kind of person.
Ironically it’s religion that lets people be bad. See, as a non-religious person, if I attack or kill someone else, I’m just a bad person…a violent a-hole. But only religion allows you to kill another and ALSO be the good guy, while the person you’re torturing or killing is the bad guy. See we had to kill the Jews, they were dirty and immoral, and the Hindus wouldn’t convert, and the gays are sinful, etc.
Someone earlier said that people who kill others aren’t REAL Christians. That’s news to 99% of Christians. Almost all of our military is made up by Christians. The witch trials, inquisitions, crusades and holly wars are all fought by Christians. The new Testament may not include a lot of reasons to kill, but modern American Christianity (especially evangelical right wing) isn’t about the new Testament. The new Testament is the hippy liberal “love thy neighbor” soft on crime crap that Republicans hate. It’s not what I hear about much anymore. They want Rambo not Jesus. You’ll pretty much only hear selective portions of the old Testament from politicians and political preachers. Gays are bad! Why? Leviticus says so…now shut up and let me eat my BLT! Bacon…such a tasty abomination…hhmmm (Homer Simpson)
Jan, I think what you are saying is that Obama and Osama are really Oprah, and she came down to earth one day upon a flaming Boston Cream Pie to give us lollipops and give us cooties.
Am I wrong? Is this what you were trying to tell me?
David, you went on quite a rant. You unfortunateky fell victim to what many readers on this blog fall victim to…you don’t read.
I stated “One of the only positive things that religion has brought society is morality”. “Modern Morals” originated from The Ten Commandments, how can you debate that?
There are many morals besides “Thou shall not kill”, but that is the one you selected. Regardless of whether or not you are religious or not, If you believe that killing is not proper then you agree with one of the religious based morals.
In addition, one could not not truly be a devout Christian or Jew in the purest sense if they commited murder since it is against the Ten Commandments (of course you can supposedly repent). I can tell you I’m a good driver, then drive 100mph to work in the morning and then profess to my co-workers that I’m a good driver. Does that mean that I’m a good driver?
Hopefully, get my point. If not, I’ll try to relate it to a Simpsons episode.
Wes…I’m gonna coin a phrase that someone said to me on another post….take a chill pill. If that’s what you think I was saying, then…hey, who am I to stop you believing that…wow…interpret it however you want.
The thing is, religion is not about science or verifiable fact, so it can’t be “true” or “not true.” I believe I have coffee brewing, and I can verify this by getting up and walking over and looking at the pot.
I think that’s what makes a lot of us in West Seattle and elsewhere nervous: that some religions believe they are “right” and “the truth” and other religions are wrong.
I don’t know if Mars Hill teaches that or not; I only know what I read on their website. They’re not for me, and that’s fine.
I really only am interested/concerned about what people believe religion-wise when they translate it into social or political action, like voting against gay rights or marrying six wives. Then their beliefs become fair game for criticism, just as my beliefs are.
I am not worked up by your comments, just trying to show you that it would be right for me to understand exactly what you said, and not interpret it the way I want to. You wouldn’t want a doctor to do that. You go in for heart surgery, but he thinks it means to amputate(sp?) a leg.
Kayleigh, I can look at a building and know there was a builder. I can look at a watch and know there was a watchmaker. I can look at a coffee maker and know there was a, well, coffee maker maker. I may never seen any of these builders or makers, but the verifiable fact that they exsist tells me there was a maker. So when I look at creation, I can know there was a creator.
What evidence would you need to believe something true?
Hi Wes–I’m not an atheist, though I played one on tv for years. ;-)
You are assuming that the universe itself operates under the same principle as the watch–that it needed to be created in order to exist. Maybe the universe simply always existed. Or not, who knows.
For me, it’s not about evidence, because you can find evidence either way. For example: Evidence FOR the existence of God: chocolate fudge brownies, Bruce Springsteen’s music, beautiful late summer mornings, and a cat snuggling on your lap. Evidence AGAINST the existence of God: Ted Bundy, hurricane Katrina, car accidents, and the smell on Metro buses.
Wishing you a great weekend.
I love your sense of humor Kayleigh. I do believe that the universe needed to be created to exsist. I was following the same scientific method you used for knowing there was coffee in your pot. Not sure about Bruce Springsteens music, maybe Coltranes, Blue train or Miles Davis’s Sketches in Spain for a good example of God’s exsistence.
God bless and have a great weekend.
Myself, as a devout Pastafarian, cannot wait until the first Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster opens up in West Seattle. I have been touched by His Noodly Appendage!
actually, that’s Sketches of Spain….and Kayleigh…Bruce Springsteen is a god himself ;-) ….and we won’t talk about those brownies..hehe
Bill, I’m still giggling over “walk your big butt three blocks for Jesus.” My grandmother lived for 50 years right on Webster not too far from there…I can’t imagine church buses rumbling by her house!
Jan, have you heard Bruce’s new song, “Radio Nowhere”? It rocks. Was free on Itunes for about a week…album due in October!
Thank you Bill – “Walk your big butt three blocks for Jesus†– classic. I think this all started with addressing impact on / inconsideration of neighbors. Again, whether churchmembers or TupperWare sales people, those living around a venue don’t deserve to be displaced on a regular basis, especially when it sounds like the parking lot arrangement isn’t being utilized to the fullest. As for the mass babtism, to each his own. IMO, it does seem like a bit of an exhibition / PR stunt to hold it at 6:30 on a Friday. According to their link, shuttle busses will be dropping people off at the bathouse and registration for the event will be coming from Mars West Seattle, Shoreline, AND Ballard. I wonder how many people that will bring! Was there some reason they chose not to do this at Golden Gardens which seems more central among the three locations and has a much better set-up with parking lots running parallel to the beach?
Interesting side note: Whether it’s coincidence? deliberate? bad timing? inconsequential? just realized the MH mass baptism is scheduled as the Jewish holiday of Rosh Hashanah comes to a close (sunset Friday 9/14).
Two observations:
1) These folks are being talked about as outside invaders, but they are in fact west seattle residence right?
2) Seemed like these west siders had 2 choices: Have everyone park wherever they wanted on side streets or try and urge as many as possible to not clog the side streets but instead park at a lot and get bussed over.
They went with the latter. Would anyone have preferred they went with the former? Does anyone else have another reasonable alternative? If so, send them a cordial letter and see what happens!
Sorry, comment time is over.
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