FOLLOWUP: Alki, Harbor, West Marginal, 7 other Seattle streets designated ‘racing zones’ by City Council, first step toward possible enforcement cameras

In an 8-1 vote this afternoon, Seattle City Councilmembers passed the bill that could give the green light to speed-enforcement cameras in so-called “restricted racing zones.” The bill designates 10 streets around Seattle as racing zones – including Alki Avenue, Harbor Avenue, and West Marginal Way SW in West Seattle; we first reported on the proposal more than a month ago. The state Legislature gave cities the power to make these designations. But it doesn’t automatically mean these streets or any/all of the other seven will get cameras – it’s up to SDOT to make a plan, and ultimately up to the mayor to figure out how camera installation would be funded. Nonetheless, especially in the aftermath of the July 16th Alki driver-rescued-from-water crash, the local residents who’ve been pushing for more safety action see this move as hopeful. Steve Pumphrey, an organizer of the Alki-Harbor neighborhood group, says they had seven people speaking in favor of the proposal at this afternoon’s council meeting. They are also continuing to advocate for more traffic-calming measures such as additional speed humps along Alki and Harbor.

73 Replies to "FOLLOWUP: Alki, Harbor, West Marginal, 7 other Seattle streets designated 'racing zones' by City Council, first step toward possible enforcement cameras"

  • Josh July 25, 2023 (5:20 pm)

    I am struggling to find the voting roll for this measure. Do you know who the lone “no” vote was?

    • WSB July 25, 2023 (5:48 pm)

      Councilmember Sawant.

      • ltfd July 25, 2023 (6:04 pm)

        Of course …

      • flimflam July 25, 2023 (6:33 pm)

        Wow, she’s the gift that keeps on giving isn’t she?

        • AG July 25, 2023 (7:57 pm)

          Gone soon, having declared victory not unlike the Black Knight in Monty Python’s Holy Grail

        • Annette July 25, 2023 (8:04 pm)

          Her district is well rid of her soon, but apparently she any opportunity to be ridiculous in the meantime is okay.

        • The King July 25, 2023 (8:24 pm)

          It’s the one thing I can say I agree with sawant on. A few years ago the feds had put cameras in various locations throughout the city without telling anyone and she had them removed. Begging to have personal  privacy or freedoms  taken away that we currently have is baffling to me. 

          • Scarlett July 25, 2023 (9:14 pm)

            Agreed.  

      • Question Authority July 25, 2023 (7:44 pm)

        I would imagine her opposition to this is because some undetermined marginalized group (insert here) would be late to work if not allowed to speed.  

        • WSB July 25, 2023 (8:38 pm)

          I’m sure she explained before the vote but I wasn’t able to watch the meeting live because the Alki Elementary appeal hearing hadn’t ended yet. When I checked for the video for this report, Seattle Channel hadn’t turned it around yet. Will be checking again in a bit.

        • flimflam July 26, 2023 (9:18 am)

          @QA – the Stranger says it has to do with unfair burdens on the poor, working class, etc…while i do think speed bumps are a better idea, the only people “targeted” by the cameras wil be speeders. She’s ridiculous.

          • Pete July 26, 2023 (10:54 am)

            As someone who manages to not speed, I have little sympathy for people getting ticketed for speeding.  Savant has a point though.  Rich people don’t care about fines.  Fines do tend to hit less well off people harder.There are places where speeding tickets are proportional to wealth.  That might be a better idea.  I sometimes feel like this country is allergic to adopting the ideas from elsewhere, so it’s probably a non starter here.

      • Doug July 25, 2023 (10:18 pm)

        The damage she has done to this city will soon come to an end with her departure from the council. 

        • Nathan H. July 26, 2023 (8:19 am)

          The damage she has done to this city will not be undone for decades, unfortunately.

          • Jeepney July 26, 2023 (8:54 am)

            Sawant may be on her way out, but please keep her legacy in mind whenever you vote in future elections.  Any candidate who lists “activist” in their bio should be vetted thoroughly before voting for them.

    • James July 26, 2023 (9:21 am)

      No to cameras! Get creative and better solutions than just bowing down to surveillance culture. 

      • msw July 29, 2023 (11:36 pm)

        Amen. Big Brother is coming for your wallet in the name of “Safety”. Such BS. 

    • Ws rez July 28, 2023 (4:16 am)

      Wow. One thing I can agree with Sawant on. 

  • AG July 25, 2023 (5:28 pm)

    Oooh yeah that’ll show ’em! (AG rolls eyes so hard they fall over backwards)

  • Pauline July 25, 2023 (5:34 pm)

    Already can’t deal with 25 mph lol. Well many people gonna get tickets for blocking intersection heading to George Town. Guess that’s good lol. I hope they can make speed signs visible in these areas or some intersections with green arrow lights (Avalon and 35th toward Starbucks; camera is there and SW Orchard and Delridge Intersection) lol 

  • Fast track bumps for slow/safe solution July 25, 2023 (5:35 pm)

    This vote seems a step forward. Would love to see speed bumps fast-tracked along Alki as a key part of the solution. Could be a parting gift of out-going council for improved safety?  Not sure they could cut through redtape? Also unsure of the impact bumps would have on trucks on West Marginal way so they may not be feasible there?

  • Rhonda July 25, 2023 (5:47 pm)

    I’d feel a lot safer if the city concentrated on patrolling 7 “shooting zones” like 5400 Delridge, High Point, 15th and Roxbury, Whale Tail Park, etc.

  • julio July 25, 2023 (5:49 pm)

    1984 anyone?

    • ltfd July 25, 2023 (6:09 pm)

      Yes, because no corporation (advertising) or government (exposure tracking) is collecting any information at all about your daily activities via the recording/tracking device (cell phone) that you have with you 24/7. The speed cameras though – so Orwellian in comparison.

      • Scarlett July 25, 2023 (7:37 pm)

        This kind of fatalism when it is used as an argument always baffles me.     

        • Josh July 26, 2023 (7:54 am)

          This isn’t a fatalistic argument. The point is if we are already permanently surveiled by google and the NSA to no benefit of our own then why complain about ‘surveillance’ that has severe restrictions on its use and actually benefits and improves real safety for us as a community. For example the psycho on the white Hyundai who killed the cyclist on the low bridge could have easily been identified and arrested using the bridge plate camera but that was not an option because of the restrictions placed on using that camera for anything but it’s specific purpose. 

          • James July 26, 2023 (9:22 am)

            It never benefits society. “We already got a lot of surveillance so let’s add more!” is fatalistic. It’s also a logical fallacy. 

    • Jon Wright July 25, 2023 (6:22 pm)

      I am many orders of magnitude more concerned about the prospect of my family being wiped out by a sociopath racing at 90 mph than I am about the government possibly snapping a picture of my minivan. Things have gotten to the point where I wish speed cameras, bus lane cameras, red light cameras, box-blocking cameras, crosswalk cameras, and cameras for violators of any other traffic laws  were everywhere.

    • Amused July 25, 2023 (6:41 pm)

      Don’t drive like a maniac on these roads and you’re fine.

      • alki_2008 July 26, 2023 (11:13 pm)

        So if someone goes a couple miles over 25, then they should get a speeding ticket? Is driving 27mph a “maniac” way of driving.If West Seattle are so concerned about drivers being exactly below the speed limit, then why not focus on California and/or 35th Ave where there have been more accidents and fatalities from speeders?Start with speed bumps on Alki/Harbor, which would actually cause racers to not race. Proactively stop speeding and accidents. Instead of cameras which will not prevent accidents, just add to the punishment aspect. And as residents have noted, the late night racers obscure their plates anyway. Seems people care more about reactive punishment than proactive prevention of accidents.

    • Mike July 25, 2023 (6:46 pm)

      Pretty much, Julio… pretty much 

    • Scarlett July 25, 2023 (6:53 pm)

      We’re already well past 1984 in the grand scope of things.   It’s a big reason why the last installment of “The Matrix” failed – who needs to watch a sci-fi flick when you’re already living it? 

  • Marley July 25, 2023 (6:50 pm)

    Anyone with a job couldn’t make the meeting. If you’re free on a Tuesday at 2pm your time is worthless, so of course you’ve got plenty of it to spend going 25mph. 7 people in favor, there’s more council members than that! I’m sure the revenue generated from the cameras will be put to good use, just like the rest of our city tax dollars. 

  • Scarlett July 25, 2023 (7:21 pm)

    Then there is Japan, which is going to employ so-called “pre-crime” technology, made famous by the T.  Cruise film.  So, nothing to worry about, you tin-foil hat sillies.  Btw,  I don’t you know about the rest of you, but I just can’t wait to fill that D1  city council position with someone with connections to Big Tech!  

  • rob July 25, 2023 (7:34 pm)

     back in the day when people would speed up an down our street my dad an the neighbor would take a stuffed animal an put it on one side tie a fishing line to it. then wait as they came speeding down the road yank on it and watch the brakes squeal or take two garbage cans put one on each side of the street with a rope tied between the 2  guess what bang goes the can s  belive me it worked

    • Rick July 26, 2023 (8:51 am)

      Wait ’till their lawyers get hold of ya!

  • Boop July 25, 2023 (7:35 pm)

    Has anyone explained how all the people doing the racing will get tickets without license plates on their cars?  

    Do any of you really think they won’t cover or remove their plates— or mount stolen ones?!  

    While I completely agree that this needs to stop, unless the police pull these folks over and impound their cars we will be having the same conversation next year.  And the year after that, and the year after that…. 

    I’m shocked more aren’t up in arms about this.  If there is something I’m missing, please let me know.  

  • John July 25, 2023 (7:54 pm)

    You think 35th is bad now wait until this very selective enforcement takes effect and they “sweep” all the racers onto that elegant north-south promenade.  Next, we’ll have cameras in every retailer and grocer to prevent crime. Oh we already do, and it doesn’t work? Sawant is right, er, left again.

  • AG July 25, 2023 (8:00 pm)

    And there’s literally drag racing on Alki as I write this at 8pm on a sunny evening. I am truly hard-pressed to understand why on earth anyone thinks those drivers will know, care, or change with cameras in place. They will not.

  • Lucy July 25, 2023 (8:14 pm)

    Tickets won’t solve anything.  If the cameras are able to identify the vehicle and the driver, the car is located and impounded until the owner can pay an exorbitant fine.  Then the driver is located, their license suspended and they also pay a huge fee. 

    • Rhonda July 25, 2023 (8:59 pm)

      The cameras don’t dispense real tickets. It’s merely a fine like the red light cameras and not a moving violation. The punishments you listed don’t even happen to street racers who get pulled over by actual officers.

  • Gaslit July 25, 2023 (9:00 pm)

    So, people doing 28 in a 25 in the flow of traffic and “street racers” will simply remove their plates. This is government overreach in pure form. A way to simply tax people for living their everyday lives. The fact that a lame duck Lisa Herbold is behind this makes it all the worse. I’d love to see data evidence backing the policy and eventual data on how many daily drivers are impacted vs fictional “street racers”. 

    • DC July 26, 2023 (9:06 am)

      You know, most people don’t consider breaking the law and speeding to be ‘living their everyday lives.’ Very easy way to avoid this ‘tax’ is to simply be a law abiding citizen and go the speed limit. 

      • alki_2008 July 26, 2023 (11:18 pm)

        You want someone to be so focused on their speedometer that they aren’t looking at the road in front of them?  It’s quite easy to go a bit over 25mph without noticing. There’s a big difference between driving 28mph and street racing 60mph. You know what would lead everyone to keep their speed down without distracting them?  Speed bumps! Start with that, then see if that’s enough to stop the racing problem. Much cheaper solution.

      • msw July 29, 2023 (11:52 pm)

        And when you inadvertently go 22 mph and get a $234, you will change your tune. And don’t give me the BS that you will gladly pay the fine for not obeying the the law. Kiss your grocery budget good by for that week.

        • WSB July 30, 2023 (12:59 am)

          $139.

    • foop July 26, 2023 (10:40 am)

      Your username choice is ironic considering you’re saying that street racers are fictional.

    • msw July 29, 2023 (11:44 pm)

      The city council has been eager to install these cameras for a long time. Now they will have these everywhere. More $$$$. 

  • kim July 25, 2023 (9:04 pm)

    Why is Beach Drive omitted from this?  The same revving, racing, dangerous driving continues (or begins) on Beach Drive and pummels 63rd. As I write…

  • J July 25, 2023 (9:21 pm)

    This is a waste a money because the people racing take their plates off

    • Admyrl Byrd July 25, 2023 (10:38 pm)

      So what is your answer?  So tired of people shooting down attempts at progress and enforcement.  People are getting seriously injured or killed here.  “But my privacy”Perfect is the enemy of good.  Let’s do the incremental to get to a better place.

      • Mike July 26, 2023 (1:06 pm)

        More police, that’s the answer 

      • alki_2008 July 26, 2023 (11:18 pm)

        More SPEED BUMPS!!!

      • MSW July 28, 2023 (1:03 am)

        Maybe hire more police to do patrols and let them be able to chase the racers,  catch them and impound their cars. These cameras are a big money grab for the city. My wife who drives like a granny was nailed  by one of these school cameras going 22 mph in  20 mph zone. The ticket was $234.  Yeah it’s about safety and not the $$$. I’m curious what the fines will be in these racing zones. And are we racing if we go 27 mph in the zone? 

        • WS Res July 30, 2023 (9:15 am)

          Yes let’s have more car chases, that’s a great way to keep pedestrians and innocent drivers from getting killed!  

  • Del July 25, 2023 (9:40 pm)

    A girl was hit and killed by a speeding driver right in front of my house on Delridge.  With all of the schools and daycares on Delridge, there needs to be more traffic cameras recording the dangerous stunts people pull on Delridge, but because it’s mostly POC who live on our street and POC who were killed, the city neglects our street. 

  • Chemist July 25, 2023 (10:30 pm)

    Considering how the Alki trail (and most parks mixed use trails) were designated 15 mph zones in 2020 to combat the rise in ebike speeding creating unsafe conditions for pedestrians and other trail users, and SDOT hasn’t put up 15 mph speed limit signs yet, I wouldn’t hold my breath on swift action.

    The new Multi-Use Trail Policy officially began on August 26, 2020. Here it is in brief:15 mph speed limit for all users …Seattle Parks and Recreation will be working with SDOT to install speed limit signs along these multi-use trails in addition to the existing safety signs in place. 

  • Odd son July 25, 2023 (11:37 pm)

    Charlestown Street west of CA should be on the list 🤣

  • WestSeattleBadTakes July 26, 2023 (7:09 am)

    If these are “restricted race zones” what does that make every street and road?

  • Jay July 26, 2023 (8:59 am)

    These are more expensive yet less effective than speed humps. Of course that’s what we’re getting. Great use of our tax dollars and A+ infrastructure planning. Good job Seattle.

  • Amy July 26, 2023 (9:34 am)

    I’m decidedly mixed about the speeding cameras on West Marginal, and elsewhere. Our house overlooks West Marginal Way, and we lie there at night and hear the engines whine and the gears grind, and hope those bastards all have organ donor cards, so that they’ll do some good when they hit a telephone pole.On the other hand, I really resent the fact that the speed on West Marginal Way has been restricted to 30 miles an hour.  Nobody goes that slow on West Marginal!  If they’re going to put up speeding cameras (taking away another slice of privacy), the least they could do is raise the speed limit to 35 or 40 miles per hour.

  • valvashon July 26, 2023 (12:07 pm)

    Complaints about the surveillance and speed cameras is legitimate- if you are concerned about being hit by a car speeding down Alki/Harbor at 90 miles an hour a surveillance camera won’t stop them in the moment.  If they don’t car about hitting another car so hard it knocks it off of the street and into the bay, they won’t care about being caught on camera.  What will stop them in the moment are substantial speed bumps- like parking lot ones, tall, thin and across the whole roadway.  The square humps in the middle of the lanes are useless IMHO.  Unless bikes have their own lane through there they might have to go over the bumps too. Until the speed racers face the real possibility of their wheels being ripped off by the speed bumps I predict that they won’t stop using this stretch of road for speeding/racing.

    • Jay July 26, 2023 (2:02 pm)

      Yeah, prevention is better than punishment. Punishment may feel satisfying, but it’s not going to bring a victim’s health back.

    • Jay July 26, 2023 (3:44 pm)

      Speed bumps really rattle bikes without suspension, especially when carrying stuff on a rack.  But I just go between the speed humps. A lot of times the regular steep speed bumps that go across the road will have a little 8″ to 12″ gap for a bike to go through without getting bounced.

    • alki_2008 July 26, 2023 (11:23 pm)

      Speed bumps across the entire road is not good. There are gaps for bicycles and also for emergency vehicles. Supposedly, the gaps are set at what’s usually a standard axle width of fire trucks and such. Low racing cars will still have to slow down at speed bumps with gaps, so no need to go all the way across the road.

  • FT July 26, 2023 (2:13 pm)

    Cameras will not be the solution. Local residents and visitors will be punished by driving two miles over the speed limit and “forced” to pay a fine because we dont wanna get in trouble. While those racers can get away with it easily with excuses, or they can simply ignore the tickets. They broke enough laws already, why would they care about another ticket?The opinions in the neighborhood group is NOT unanimous, quite the opposite actually.

    • heartless July 26, 2023 (8:21 pm)

      “The opinions in the neighborhood group is NOT unanimous, quite the opposite actually.”

      Wouldn’t the opposite of unanimous also be unanimous?

      “Local residents and visitors will be punished by driving two miles over the speed limit”

      I’m…  really, really, very ok with that.  (And kinda embarrassed for you that you aren’t–this is the epitome of rules for thee and not for me…)

    • msw July 29, 2023 (11:59 pm)

      Yup. Spot on! 

  • Jay July 26, 2023 (3:39 pm)

    Under the law, the cameras can only identify cars but not drivers. There’s a box to contest by saying “I wasn’t driving.” It’s also likely that ahead of events that someone will spraypaint or shoot the camera. And of course like we saw on the lower bridge when the West Seattle Bridge was closed, people will just cover or remove their plates. Or maybe they’ll just have someone hold a sign in front of the cameras. Camera ticket enforcement had been shown to be ineffective. It’s performative, we really need speed bumps in neighborhoods where speeding is a problem.

  • alki_2008 July 26, 2023 (11:26 pm)

    What would be the method for Alki residents, not just West Seattle residents that may not even use Alki/Harbor Ave on a regular basis, to express their disagreement with the idea of speed cameras? The Alki residents that have advocated for cameras are a small minority of the population here.

  • WS Res July 26, 2023 (11:42 pm)

    WS Blog commentators:  Throw the book at people who break the law! Do law and order at them!   City: [installs speeding cameras]  WS Blog commentators:  not like that

  • Wsmom July 29, 2023 (3:22 am)

    Even if the racers leave their plates on, I doubt they’ll be paying their tickets like responsible citizens. Plus maybe the ticket price is worth the chase to them. Speed bumps are the only way to go!! I would just hate for the city to  pay for cameras if it won’t actually make a difference. 

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