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April 17, 2009 at 6:02 pm #664485
JoBParticipantkbear…
i still don’t get why people who make so little that they don’t even pay taxes are worried about “overtaxing” those with incomes…
the only way those taxes will ever effect them is if they win the lottery..
April 17, 2009 at 6:02 pm #664486
AnonymousInactiveTo make a protest about teabagging is like a blow to the chin of our government. If the people don’t teabag, who will?
April 17, 2009 at 6:05 pm #664487
JoBParticipantso tea-bagging.. when we are fighting a war to save our economy is good…
but protesting the war we were sold a bill of goods on in Iraq was unpatriotic?
hmmmm???????
April 17, 2009 at 6:13 pm #664488
KBearParticipantApril 17, 2009 at 6:15 pm #664489
KenParticipantYou keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
— Inigo Montoya
April 17, 2009 at 6:20 pm #664490
alki_2008ParticipantUhm…doesn’t everyone (regardless of income) pay sales tax and other ‘non-income’ taxes?
I think there are plenty of folks not thrilled with the proposed (or is it law already?) increase to our local sales tax…which, as a regressive tax, hurts the ‘poor’ more than other income groups.
Property tax is another one. I’m sure there will be some folks out there arguing that ‘if people can afford to own a home, then they shouldn’t complain about paying property taxes’…but from another perspective, increased property taxes might lead to increased rental rates for non-homeowners and can also be a burden for folks on fixed incomes.
It’s not just “income” tax that gets people riled up…so it would be nice to discuss more than just how ‘rich people shouldn’t complain about paying taxes on their high incomes’. Maybe it’s just me…but that mantra is starting to get really old.
EDIT: This isn’t for or against the tea bag protest stuff. I don’t really care about all that…however, I do like “no sales tax” sales. ;)
April 17, 2009 at 6:27 pm #664491
CallMeAlMemberI don’t think anyone was implying that teabagging is unpatriotic.
Oh, good Heavens! Thank you Ken for enlightening me on the slang usage.
April 17, 2009 at 6:38 pm #664492
AnonymousInactiveWe say “té embolsado” in my country. This is very patriotic to us!
April 17, 2009 at 6:50 pm #664493
alki_2008ParticipantOKay, now that I’ve read all the posts on Page 1…
letting the government know that they better get their act together or those politicians in 2 years and 4 years will be in the private sector (unless they get a job at Fannie Mae!).
Maybe Rahm can go back to making almost $400k in two years at Freddie Mac…as a board member that required maybe a week of meetings over two years.
has a statistic you ought to pay attention to.. it said that it was project that 42% (if memory serves.. which is iffy this morning) of taxpayers paid no tax at all this year
Actually, it said that 43% of filers would not OWE taxes for 2008, and in the next paragraph added that many of them probably still PAID federal taxes due to payroll taxes. I suspect that the percentage of filers that didn’t work and didn’t owe taxes is much smaller than 43%.
President Obama and the newly democratic congress didn’t dig this hole… President Bush and a largely republican congress did.
What is the rule for how long this type of argument is valid? Are we going to be using this same excuse in 2 years, 4 years, 6 years?
Can’t we concentrate our energies on how to fix the problem, instead of dwelling on how it started? Personally, I’m not sure that spending trillions of dollars is going to make everything rosey, and I don’t see how the government’s going to pay for all the proposed spending while still maintaining it’s pledge not to raise taxes for folks making less than $250k.
Green tea is my favorite…with honey and a hint of lemon.
April 17, 2009 at 7:27 pm #664494
villagegreenMemberThe funny thing to me about bitching about paying taxes is that the only way I’m able to save any money each year is by paying taxes. Then at the end of the year I get a pretty good refund. I know people will say that if I only invested that money instead of giving it to the government to hang on to for the year, I’d make even more.
But the fact is, most people are too uninformed or lazy to figure out how to invest their money – that’s why they have other people do it for them. It’s quite obvious that the ‘let me keep my money and I’ll decide how best to use it’ argument just doesn’t hold water. Most people won’t invest their money, but will simply spend it on stupid stuff, like Starbucks and the lottery. I for one thank god I have taxes taken out of my paycheck!
I know this argument doesn’t speak to the money that I actually do pay the governement, but I’m happy to pay that money as well (and I’m definitely not rich – I live paycheck to paycheck). I’m not sure about specifics, but I’m pretty sure Americans pay a much lower portion of their income in taxes than most countries.
These tea-baggers are most likely the same people who are buying up firearms in droves because they believe Obama is somehow going to outlaw guns. A certain portion of Americans still manage to shock me with their ignorance in so many ways.
April 17, 2009 at 9:22 pm #664495
JoBParticipantalki_2008
ok.. i am all for short political memories… but this one really gets a prize for short.
the reason to remember who dug the hole and how they went about digging it is to keep our elected officials from digging another that is deeper.
I am not among the barely over half of this nation who voted those clowns in and then turned a blind eye to their malfeasance…
nor was i one of those who bought the idea that even though George W Bush hadn’t kept any of his campaign promises in his first term we should elect him for another just to see if he would.
nor am i among those who think we should just sweep all that mess.. economic fraud, torture, unauthorized wiretapping of US citizens and much more under the rug and return to politics as normal.. the republicans trying to undercut any fulfillment of the promises made in this election.
Sorry.. that is what got us where we are right now… and as a game plan for recovery… it won’t produce anything other than more of the same.
April 17, 2009 at 9:41 pm #664496
alki_2008ParticipantYeah – learn from the mistakes made in the past. That’s great. I don’t think anyone’s saying we should continue what was done before, so I’m not clear why the comment “and as a game plan for recovery… it won’t produce anything other than more of the same” was made.
If Democrats can learn from the mistakes made in the past (regardless of who made the mistakes), then so can Republicans…or at least, let’s hope so. The fact of the matter is that there will always be a mix of Dems and Reps in government, and both sides should be accountable for what happens (good or bad). Together, they form “our government” – and together they allowed our country to reach its current state. The blame game doesn’t do anyone any good.
April 17, 2009 at 9:51 pm #664497
AnonymousInactiveMaybe with the focus on teabagging we can begin to heal as a nation and join together to make right these things?
April 18, 2009 at 1:21 am #664498
JoBParticipantalki_2008
“The fact of the matter is that there will always be a mix of Dems and Reps in government, and both sides should be accountable for what happens (good or bad). Together, they form “our government” – and together they allowed our country to reach its current state”
LOL… someone forgot to tell the republicans this when they were exercising power…
in fact.. if their performance in the House and Senate so far this term is any indication… i don’t think they’ve been told yet… ;->
perhaps you could email them? for the most part they have yet to show up for anything except trash talk;(
April 18, 2009 at 8:22 am #664499
HMC RichParticipantI am going to dial back most of my rhetoric for a moment.
My wife wanted, since she was British, to personalize a license plate. She drinks a lot of tea. She thought “tea-bag” was cute. You should have seen her look when the “new” meaning of the term was.
Ideologically, I will show you my view of what the government would do concerning the issue of the Tea-Bag.
Democrat, Tax it, make it a victim and start a government program.
Republican, Scream about the lack of morality, and then vote for it to show some bi-partisan support
Conservative, scream about the break down of society and go on Fox News to complain.
Libertarian, Do nothing and grant free will for all who decide to involve themselves.
Anarchist, Add chocolate syrup then beat to death with a baseball bat.
Greens, understand sensitivity and respect for diversity with decentralized government and grass roots movements.
Communist, Let them help you overthrow the government then line them up and shoot them.
Fascist, Strong dicktatorial control by the government.
Oligarchy, sanctioned by the ruling class but outlawed for the rest.
Theocracy – Pray, baby Pray, arrest those who participate in the violation of God’s laws.
JoB, Right now nationally and in especially in our state, the Republicans have very little power. That is why the Dems are moving so quickly. Someday in the future it will be the other way. All Republicans can do right now is gripe, just like 1994, congressionally speaking, for the Dems.
A few days ago Americans shouted at the government on a day where the Government takes your money. Unfortunately, people like Janeane Garofalo calls them racists and Homeland Security calls them possible Extremists. Sad but JoB, since you have an FBI file, the irony must be interesting. Now I am a racist and an extremist! Wow, I thought I was just exercising my constitutional rights.
The wheel of time seems circular. Old becomes new and new becomes old. I will always love The Who’s song “Won’t Get Fooled Again”. Very appropriate.
April 18, 2009 at 3:45 pm #664500
dhgParticipantHMC Rich: Hah! Here’s where we can get to the heart of this. With Bush and a Republican Congress, there was a strong push for internal security. The creation of Home Land Security and warrantless wire tapping was put forth as a necessary tool to protect us. Of course, they immediately started monitoring the Democrats and any leftist organizations because they might be “dangerous”. But it is a double-edged sword and now that Homeland has turned on the extreme righties perhaps now you can see how civil liberties should trump security. We need to get the Constitution restored. Wiretaps should be sanctioned by a dispassionate court. Homeland Security needs to focus on external threats. As it stands now, they have so little to do that they take down anyone with a tan who photographs the Ballard Locks.
April 18, 2009 at 7:33 pm #664501
JoBParticipantdhg…
i couldn’t agree with you more.. i would like to start with getting the constitution restored..
and i don’t think that is going to happen without a fight…
the abuses are just plain too useful to whoever is in power…
and as long as we can be distracted with purely bipartisan bickering and will buy the idea the the election of whatever party we think we want in power is the most important thing…
the political pressure to restore our constitution won’t happen.
Maybe if we all concentrated on something that matters instead of focusing on political labels.. we could get something worthwhile done. maybe.
April 19, 2009 at 3:26 pm #664502
AnonymousInactiveI make a photo at the locks. Should I be careful enxt time? I go there for teabagging but there was not a teabag in the place.
April 19, 2009 at 5:20 pm #664503
c@lbobMemberTigre,
If you are taking pictures at the Crittenden/Ballard Locks and your skin color is darker than say, Michael Imperioli of “The Sopranos”
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0408284/
be prepared to show ID.
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20040714&slug=locks14m
April 19, 2009 at 5:22 pm #664504
c@lbobMemberHMC Rich said: “Right now nationally and in especially in our state, the Republicans have very little power. That is why the Dems are moving so quickly.”
They’re moving very quickly with their tails between their legs. Seems to me they are trying to out cut Republicans in Olympia.
April 19, 2009 at 5:28 pm #664505
c@lbobMemberAlki_2008 said: “I don’t think anyone’s saying we should continue what was done before…”
Congressional Republicans are still calling to extend tax cuts to wealthy individuals and to cut government spending. These are two wholly counterproductive things to do in the deep recession we are in.
April 19, 2009 at 6:00 pm #664506
c@lbobMemberIf we can all get beyond the Tim Eyeman belief that government spending is out of control and needs to be prohibited with ballot initiatives, we might be able to have a rational discussion of taxes.
Government spending, state taxes and expenditures are, and have been, steadily declining both per capita, and more importantly, as a percentage of the total economy since 1983.
The problem is that Washington has a regressive tax structure, where the bottom fifth of households pay 17.6% of income in state and local taxes while our top 1 percent pay only 3.1%. The problem isn’t taxes, it’s the mix of taxes we have.
If think a state income tax needs to be implemented with adjustments to business, sales and property taxes that bring in enough revenue and spread the tax burden fairly among the populace.
That really isn’t utopian, it’s just not what big political contributors want. Which means that labels have to be dropped and replaced by dollars and cents. Take a look a what roads, schools, transit, water, parks, voting systems, sheriffs and police, jails, judiciary are worth to you, and decide what you should pay for them.
If you calculate that they are worth nothing, maybe you should move to Idaho and let the rest of us be.
April 19, 2009 at 10:01 pm #664507
JulieMemberCatlbob, I’m with you. The piece that stumps me is getting this idea across through all the sound and fury.
One stumbling block is the absurd but firmly lodged notion that government can always do what it does more cheaply, no matter how much we reduce its resources.
Another is that the benefits of our collective spending tend to be taken for granted, and many of those benefits are for all practical purposes invisible to superficial understanding.
Another is the reflexive negative reaction to even the term “income tax”, which makes it very difficult to shift our tax structure to a more progressive one–despite the fact that many more people would find their tax burdens lighter in such a system.
So, how do those of us with this understanding best convey these ideas?
April 23, 2009 at 3:28 pm #664508
CallMeAlMemberWith credit given to this week’s “The Stranger”
I just wanted to say to all you folks who were at the Westlake Park “teabagger” protest—what the hell WAS that?! Even I don’t understand you guys. And “teabagging”? I don’t think you REALLY know what that means. Let’s just say, where I live now, I’m much closer to the “bag” than the “tea.” My friends, teabagging is not the solution; teabagging is the PROBLEM.
April 23, 2009 at 5:38 pm #664509
KenParticipantJust a note on the Ballard locks. After the story broke, I went down to the locks on several weekdays and one weekend with my camera and tripod to try to get arrested. As a fiftyish white guy with short hair, I was apparently not suspecious enough even though I did everything but lurk in the bushes.
I left my ID in the car and carried nothing but a copy of the constitution and the bill of rights.
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