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October 3, 2009 at 11:48 pm #678471
bluebirdMemberMy dear sweet Fancy, no need to grieve over the thought of my pre-mature death. Alas, I do not smoke. But should I begin, it is you I desire to kiss the most.
October 3, 2009 at 11:55 pm #678472
LeroniusmonkfishMemberSarah…my sincerest apologies to you. Someone just told me that you are only 25 and probably have no clue as to what a “Mod” is.
October 4, 2009 at 12:52 am #678473
JoBParticipantOctober 4, 2009 at 7:00 am #678474
Fancy NanParticipantBluebird….you’re not foolin’ anyone. Have another smoke and chill out.
October 4, 2009 at 7:39 am #678475
TraciMemberI hope smoking doesn’t kill off the “weak” soon. My mom is a smoker and I certainly don’t want to lose her… Oh but she’s a dying breed, right!? LOL!! Get it? Because smokers kill themselves?! That’s soo funny!
This thread has made me lose faith in people. The amount of indignant, entitled, and downright RUDE attitudes have ben astounding. How convenient that you aren’t addicted to something that’s not easy to quit.
News flash, haters: Lots of us are going to die from cancer. Horrible, horrible, painful cancer. Secondhand smoke (which is VERY RARE now in Seattle) is the least of our problems.
October 4, 2009 at 9:44 pm #678476
christopherboffoliParticipanttexas: I’m not sure if you took the time to read my posts in this thread as you’ve missed some of the nuance. I’ve said that though I wish people wouldn’t get addicted to cigarettes in the first place, I really don’t feel the need to tell people what they should do with their bodies in the privacy of their own homes when it doesn’t affect anyone else. My anger was more directed at the people who minimize the real dangers of cigarette smoke to non-smokers and who are discourteous to those around them who would prefer not to breathe sidestream cigarette smoke. I’d hardly characterize that as rigid intolerance. I have friends who are smokers. But I’m fortunate that they are considerate enough to not disregard or minimize my desire to breathe their effluent.
I included the facts because they are sobering and because I think they serve as a foil to dismissive arguments about the harm that cigarettes do.
Tobacco smoking has exacted a high personal cost in my life. That motivates me more than a desire to claim any kind of expertise. And while I appreciate your concern, I require neither personal nor professional advice from complete strangers on Internet forums. But thanks anyway. I try to do my best to communicate in the most effective way. But I expect that, like most people, I don’t always succeed. However you should know that I also don’t subscribe to some bourgeoise fear of letting myself be passionate or angry about something if that is naturally how I am feeling. I expect that if anger, passion and attitude truly had the power to damage personal and professional lives then the lives and careers of most WSB Forum members would be a trail of ruin. :-)
The part of your post that I think most squarely hits the nail on the head is the part about preaching to the converted. That was the wisest thing you wrote. This is America where no one’s mind is ever changed by debate. Seems like the only way to win the game is not to play.
October 4, 2009 at 11:43 pm #678477
bluebirdMemberI don’t smoke. I don’t minimize the danger of smoking. I corrected your 30 feet crap and you proceeded to misquote me, with quite a bit of disdain and disgust. You obviously read the link I DID quote from, cuz you used material from it to keep arguing.
You can’t seem to process that not a single person thinks smoking or second hand smoke is safe. That no one thinks you should force it upon others. No one thinks you should have to pass through it to gain entrance to a building. I should say, no one here.
Based on that, we don’t get why so many of you are so pissed off. The only thing remotely advocated was the concept of walking around an offensive activity when possible, and get on with your life.
When you prefer to scream “who the hell are you to blah, blah, blah”, it does indeed sound like a big arrogant hissy fit. I never once suggested I should be allowed to tell you what is a tolerable level of toxins. You made that up all by yourself and I have certainly lost all respect of you personally and professionally after the way you’ve treated me and everyone else in this thread who dared to disagree.
Lecturing on how you put no merit in a forum discussion but we’re all supposed to honor your information. You’ve made it beyond clear that you don’t care about my or anyone else’s thoughts, but I obviously have a big mouth and plan to share my experience.
October 5, 2009 at 12:57 am #678478
JoBParticipantOctober 5, 2009 at 1:08 am #678479
Fancy NanParticipantBluebird….congratulation, you are the most passionate “non-smoker” advocating for smoker’s rights. Good luck with your uphill battle.
October 5, 2009 at 1:10 am #678480
bluebirdMemberNot for smokers fancy, against stupid.
October 5, 2009 at 1:15 am #678481
JoBParticipantbluebird..
i think you have said it in a nutshell..
i’m not pro smoking .. i am pro consideration..
on both sides of this issue.
I believe smokers should make more of an effort to move out of doorways and not share their smoke with the rest of us…
and that those who are offended by smokers should cross the street or hold their noses..
i’m with bluebird..
i am against stupid.
October 5, 2009 at 1:24 am #678482
Fancy NanParticipantI’m with bluebird too….against stupid–especially stupid people who stand in front of storefronts and stink up the air with cigarette smoke with no consideration of health risks they pass along to others.
October 5, 2009 at 5:49 am #678483
christopherboffoliParticipantbluebird: You seem awfully invested in this issue for a non-smoker. I share Fancy Nan’s suspicions.
Looking back through the threads I can’t tell where you “corrected” me. I wrote “within 30 feet of a smoker.” The last time I checked 18 inches and 6 feet were within 30 feet of a smoker. To date no scientific study has proven that being 30 feet from a smoker is safe. Of the limited (but growing) research that has been done on outdoor smoke exposure, most have commented on the difficulty and limits of the equipment and measuring methods in something as infinitely variable as air. As municipalities continue to push for outdoor smoking bans I expect the testing methods will improve.
Though I find your arguments about buses, lawnmowers, SUV’s (as well as fat and trash) to be largely fallacious, you do raise an excellent point about other sources of pollution in the air that should be of great concern to everyone. I applaud our government’s efforts with new clean diesel rules. And more locally, I’ve appreciated the City of Seattle’s efforts with offering ships at our ports ways to plug into local electricity so that they can turn off their engines in port as well as the increased number of garbage and recycling trucks that run on cleaner-burning natural gas. Wood burning fireplaces, charcoal cooking fires, and the small gas engines in lawnmowers and leaf blowers can all produce harmful pollution and I’d hope that their use (especially in densely populated areas) will shift to lesser or non-polluting alternatives.
As I fortunately don’t seek my sense of self-worth in the approval of complete strangers who don’t know me (personally or professionally) your mention of the loss of respect sounds as silly to me as when texas brought it up. When you’re out on the sidewalk puffing away with your pals and slandering someone you’ve never met (and whom they’ve never heard of) I expect it might sound a bit funny to them too.
:-)
October 5, 2009 at 6:37 am #678484
bluebirdMemberOctober 5, 2009 at 2:13 pm #678485
angelescrestParticipantLil addendum:
Could we get by w/out
“You guys are acting like you are (literally) mentally retarded.” in #76? It’s offensive.
October 5, 2009 at 3:20 pm #678486
JoBParticipantIt is not polite to call anyone a liar about their personal information… there is no excuse for that.
If bluebird say they are not a smoker.. that comment should be taken at face value.
If the only way you can make your point is by casting aspersions on others.. you don’t have much of a point.
October 5, 2009 at 4:16 pm #678487
bluebirdMemberThanks JoB. It’s ok though. I don’t take it personally. It’s just a lazy way to communicate when you’re not interested in anyone’s opinion but your own. Kind of like yelling at me for participating in this conversation, when they can’t seem to stop themselves.
I don’t know how to make it any more clear that rude smokers are wrong and I’m not condoning it. Guess I’m just not hysterical enough.
October 5, 2009 at 6:27 pm #678488
Fancy NanParticipantHey, terrific, lively debate everyone! Really good stuff here. How about banning smoking in Seattle public parks to protect our children?
This really great idea is being proposed by Seattle City Councilman Tom Rasmussen. This has been successful in Tacoma and Gig Harbor, as well as 100 cities in California. That would be a great way to protect little ones from the dangers of second-hand cigarette smoke.
October 5, 2009 at 6:42 pm #678489
KBearParticipantOctober 6, 2009 at 5:42 pm #678490
Junction JoeParticipantInteresting debate. Wonder if more people would have participated in the thread if “Smoking” were spelled correctly?
Frankly, I do not care if people smoke outside of bars and restaurants. I’m just glad that we can enter indoor spaces and breath clean air. Remember the days when you sat on an airplane in the “non-smoking” section and the guy behind you was smoking in the “smoking” section? And what an improvement it is to be able to eat a nice meal in a restaurant and taste the food, instead of smelling the smoke.
I am all for the banning of smoking in smaller parks where children play. I am still amazed that people smoke around children in parks. I saw a lady at Hiawatha Park pushing a swing with her child in it while a cigarette was hanging out of her mouth. Scarry. I think smoking should at least be banned within 50 feet of jungle gyms and sand boxes. Perhaps that’s a reasonable start people can live with.
October 6, 2009 at 5:49 pm #678491
chefMemberAn additional rant to the dog walker at WestCrest who has a bunch of little dogs, marches them to the center play area, and then sits on her ass for an hour puffing away on her cigarettes while the dogs roam about aimlessly. If that were my dog, I wouldn’t want it around someone who is puffing smoke in their nose. Geez – I can’t believe people pay this woman to pollute their dogs.
And yes, I have said something to her face about it and she was pretty nasty in her reply.
October 6, 2009 at 6:37 pm #678492
bluebirdMemberJunction Joe, a reasonable comment. Are you in the right place? The jungle gym, play area restriction seems like a great compromise. I would support that. Not as a law necessarily, but a park rule with posted signage.
October 6, 2009 at 8:38 pm #678493
sam-cParticipantI don’t smoke, and certain personal health conditions make second hand smoke bothersome. but, regardless of whether smoking is a lifestyle choice or an addiction, I think that smokers are running out of places to smoke..
I really like that I can go to certain bars and concert venues without having to stand around in second hand smoke all night.
but if someone is smoking outside on a public street, one can make a choice to cross a street if they want to avoid it but walking by them
<< doesn’t take that long >>
it’s not like you are working somewhere filled with secondhand smoke, or forced to hang out in smoke for an extended period of time.
A few months ago, while out to eat, we had parked outside of the Admiral pub. there were people standing around outside smoking of course- right outside our car. one guy actually apologized, saying, I’m sorry, I usually don’t smoke around kids. I was surprised but I didn’t really care, we were only there for a minute.
my smoking pet peeve is when smokers smoke in their cars, which in turn get sucked into my car through the heater / AC, but of course outlawing smoking in cars is a crazy idea. and yes, I realize driving in my car, running the AC is harmful too so no need to go on and on about that again.
October 6, 2009 at 10:38 pm #678494
Fancy NanParticipantChef—Dogs in parks?!? Don’t get me started!
There is only one thing that bothers me more than smokers in parks, and that is dogs in parks. Is it not bad enough that the dogs have taken over the playfield at Pathfinder School? They should change the name of that playfield to “Dog Poop Park.” Don’t even think about walking around that playfield barefoot.
What’s next, are people going to start bringing their rats to parks and letting them run wild while they enjoy a cigarette next to the bouncy bridge?
October 7, 2009 at 3:20 am #678495
chefMemberFancy Nan- uh, Westcrest is a dog park, not a people one. Just wait until a dog burns his paw on one of her cigarette butts!
Not the theme of this thread – but today this same smoking irresponsible dog walker lost one of her dogs at the park!! This poor little dog was whimpering and shaking at the front gate while Ms. Thing was puffing away in another part of the park!! The dog got out with other people four times and was put back in by passers by. The dog was terrified to be at the park! It took the lung cancer poster child 25 minutes to realize one of her dogs was missing, and when she came up to the person holding the dog and a cell phone, she got in their face and said “You didn’t call her owners did you?” Like geez, no thank you for getting the dog, etc….. I wish the person had called the owner and told them that their dog walker was too busy sitting on her butt smoking to pay attention to their dog.
If that isn’t testament to what smoking does to your brain, I don’t know what is.
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