- This topic is empty.
-
AuthorPosts
-
April 29, 2012 at 5:17 am #603060
HMC RichParticipantI want all of us political people to point out and put on this thread the tactics we don’t like from the other side.
http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/romney-obama-election-2012/2012/04/27/id/437368
April 29, 2012 at 3:47 pm #756717
redblackParticipantat least quote the original wsj piece: trying to read that poorly-(re)written newsmax crap makes my head hurt. by the way, i think newsmax might be violating some kind of fair use law; their version is nearly identical to the original.
anyway, rich. which tactic don’t you like? obama outing republican donors? or republicans whining about it?
April 29, 2012 at 4:31 pm #756718
JoBParticipantredblack..
thanks for the link the Newsmax article didn’t bother to source…
and you tell me it might have crossed the line into plagiarism? That doesn’t speak well for the prospects of surviving the original without a headache.
my brow is furrowed already:(
April 29, 2012 at 4:35 pm #756719
redblackParticipantnot plagiarism per se; they cited wsj. but the ensuing newsmax article was word-for-word in places. at best, it’s sloppy writing.
it’s been a long time since i was in a journalism class, though.
April 29, 2012 at 4:35 pm #756720
JoBParticipantWow..
I never thought i would be saying this about the Wall Street Journal.. but the original article was as badly written and sourced as the knockoff..
this is the blog that the WSJ article sources as an official part of the Obama campaign..
http://www.opensecrets.org/overview/topcontribs.php
it is paid for by Obama for America
However..
the WSJ article did not successfully close the gap between a campaign website which discloses republican donors hiding behind current campaign finance law and the influence they are buying with their campaign dollars and the enemies list compiled by Richard Nixon who used that list to persecute his political enemies.
At best.. the WSJ article is another little engine that could… they jump from the claim that the Obama White House could use that information to persecute it’s political enemies to the assumption that they would.
I am reminded of Chicken Little running around calling out that the sky is falling…
only this ages’s Chicken Little’s have an ulterior motive…
so who is going to do the work that pulls up the website that discloses democratic donors?
Not me.. said the little red hen :)
but i will throw this in…
April 29, 2012 at 4:39 pm #756721
redblackParticipanthmm. so murdoch’s yellow journalism rag put out a misleading editorial? and newsmax cited it as gospel?
what a shock.
April 29, 2012 at 4:50 pm #756722
JoBParticipantit is.. isn’t it :)
April 29, 2012 at 5:34 pm #756723
DBPMemberRich: I have objections to tactics used on both sides. However, I’d rather talk about the positive steps we can take to raise the level of the debate.
I’d like to see people discussing what each of the candidates stands for and what he is likely to do in office. I’d also like to talk about the candidates’ records.
Conversely, I’m not so much interested in evaluating the integrity of different news sources, and I’m not so much interested in having a discussion about campaign donors and their motives.
Also, I’m not inclined to read news pieces that people link to UNLESS the OP adds some value to the link by telling us why they think it’s relevant to the debate.
Â
Here’s an example of what I like:
A few weeks ago, dobro gave us a concise summary on voter fraud vs. election fraud. To back up his analysis, he linked a couple of articles. I didn’t read the articles, but I appreciated having them there if I needed them.
Â
An example of what I don’t like:
Someone links to an attack piece and doesn’t provide any value-added analysis. I typically ignore those links because I feel like nobody’s mind is going to be changed by them and I’m probably not going to learn anything new by reading them, either.
Even if someone links an article that I might learn something from, if they don’t add some value of their own, I’m not likely to read it.
Â
April 29, 2012 at 5:51 pm #756724
waynsterParticipantJust think around a billion dollars will be spent this election yr and who will spew the most hate and discontent…the supreme court open the door now its whom ever has the most buck for the bang to buy this election and the votes with lies and hate and Karl rove, fox and the chamber of commence are hell bent on trying thanks to a independent panel of judges or are they….hmmm who bought who sad very sad
April 29, 2012 at 5:52 pm #756725
DBPMemberThere’s something else I think people on both “sides” of this forum can do to raise their credibility, and this applies to discourse generally, not just politics.
When you lose a point, concede it and move on. Also, learn to recognize a stalemate when you see one, and above all, “never miss a good opportunity to shut up.”
Remember: in argument, as in battle, it’s possible to “run away and live to fight another day.”
*************************************************************************************
Here are some sample phrases that demonstrate how to surrender the field gracefully:
“I think you’ve got a good argument, but I’m still not convinced.”
“My experience has been different from yours.”
“I see your point, but my gut still tells me you’re wrong.”
“OK, so maybe I’m looking at this thing emotionally, but I’m ok with that.”
Â
April 30, 2012 at 1:01 pm #756726
redblackParticipanthmm.
DP: are we having a formal debate, or are we arguing – like a big family after thanksgiving?
April 30, 2012 at 2:23 pm #756727
JoBParticipantthere is nothing formal about this debate…
waynster brought up a point worth repeating
i know this because i get the same message in my mailbox every day.. several times.. from democrats
our electoral process has been co-opted.
our political parties now believe it is nothing more than a business transaction..
may the highest dollar win
i speak up because i believe that ideas are still more powerful than dollars
i hope this is not the last election i do so.
April 30, 2012 at 2:49 pm #756728
DBPMemberredblack: I guess I’ll have to throw the question back to you.
What do you want to be having here? A thoughtful discussion or a family drama?
Now pass me the gravy, will ya?
May 1, 2012 at 1:03 pm #756729
redblackParticipantargument is not the same as contradiction, you know.
now, i pad for an argument, and i mean to have one.
May 1, 2012 at 1:57 pm #756730
JanSParticipantsometimes family drama is more fun :D
May 7, 2012 at 2:51 am #756731
kootchmanMemberMoney out of politics? Salt, and pepper out of the spice cabinet. The only reason Democrats are miffed is the playing field is now a bit more leveled. Nary a whimper or a cry when they were out fundraising like crazy in 08′. But why not? PAC vs PAC …. gas costs too much to go out organizing and putting up yard posters… etc.. big screen, channel surfing, elections. 21st Century gladiator surrogates…only the venue has changed, not the game. Caesar’s big show for the masses goes on.
May 7, 2012 at 4:40 am #756732
JanSParticipantand the rest of the world thinks we’re nuts…our elections go to the highest bidder…not to the one’s that can really do something. Is it any wonder that everyone is so damned cynical. And attitudes like yours that approve of it…well..no wonder we’re in trouble..
May 7, 2012 at 10:01 am #756733
kootchmanMemberWho approves of it? It’s going to top two billion… but it has ever been thus. Caesars built arenas, kept the cost of bread in line, and gave them the illusion during gladitorial contests that they had some influence on the outcomes. No matter the cost to the empire…just keep the masses entertained.. and send out the Legions to conquer when the polls sagged. In 08′ Democrats spent the most. Business and conservatives kept the checkbooks closed. No one seemed appalled then? Well all that’s left is to compare… the last four years or the hope that a new candidate will do better. Democrats bought the last one… are trying to buy this one..see Hilary and Geitner on bended knee this week begging our credit masters for more money to borrow to deliver on more Caesar Cake? Even the Chinese are not buying Treasuries anymore. Just your SS and Medicare funds … Miles to go, promises to keep, and deficits to grow…. Forward we go.
May 7, 2012 at 3:57 pm #756734
JanSParticipantI think we’re all a bit cynical these days, and just accept things too readily. We figure it won’t change no matter what, so what’s the point of protesting too much? Glad to see your comment wasn’t a stamp of approval. I don’t blame Obama for it all, though, like you. This was going on waaaayyyyy before Obama…
May 8, 2012 at 3:17 am #756735
kootchmanMemberYea.. but we voted for Hope and Change and got More of The Same. So much for big ideas. Who’s accepting it? I mean to vote to gut this hog called government spending. I’d do for our young folks what our parents did for us… make some supreme sacrifices. Imagine YOUR future if they day YOU graduated from HS/College you were packing 70K in federal debt, a 50K education debt, trying to fund a SS system where three workers are supporting one retiree..when your parents had 24 retirees doing the same, We can;t reform it,,,of course, because it is essential to the revenue stream for federal spending. College gettin too expensive.. only Americans would think piling on more student debt is a “favor”.. what about looking at why college costs are rising faster than the rate of healthcare? Oh no…. that’s a core democratic constituency. Cynical? No. Disgusted, Yes.. The public said NO on Obamacare,, we got it and no way in hell to pay for it. But it fit an idealogical paradigm. We have a buncha bobbleheads nodding in agreement when our National CEO.. says jobs are slow… but we are making progress… progress? 122,000 iobs were “created” last month but 340,000 just threw in the towel and gave up.. but let’s not count them right? Our unemployment rate is 11.7 per cent. How bad is it? If you eliminated the entire DoD… sold every tank, plane, ship for scrap metal and fired all service members…. we would still have to borrow money to meet federal spending demands. It’s not the worst recession since the Great Depression…. far from it, the recession in the Carter years was far worse.,,, and inflation was hyperventilating. Not one single campaign ad touting Obamacare.. it is such a turkey. The “bright spot” Obama’s calling card is he is killing off terrorists..he is a “war” president…, with equipment and technology that the previous administration green lighted … with special forces stood up by RR when our tragedy in the Iranian desert showed us the cost of a gutted military. Cynical? Hardly. I wanna see the national priorities… in a budget proposal…. but the Senate won’t put one together… because they know to a man and woman, the cuts necessary may cost them. And they are right… my fellow Americans will make no sacrifice, confront no reality .. we are so far beyond raising income taxes… it’s time to cut. I am voting for the biggest hatchets. We did it to ourselves… and have not the courage to correct or admit our mistakes and endless gullibility,,, there are actually some who think we need to spend more!!! ah…. yes… let’s just punish the 1 per cent or 10 per cent…or anyone making over 250K even though even the most cursory glance at the numbers show it won’t dent our national debt. Saddle up the unicorn … ride the painted pony and toot the kazoos. Our footnote in history is we were the generation that thought we could borrow our way to prosperity,
May 8, 2012 at 4:40 am #756736
redblackParticipantYea.. but we voted for Hope and Change and got More of The Same. So much for big ideas.
no. you didn’t.
i’ll prove it after the next quote…
I mean to vote to gut this hog called government spending.
if you had wanted hope and change, you would have voted for obama.
if you voted to “gut the hog,” you would have voted for mccain.
make up your mind.
after contradicting yourself in less than 3 lines, i ignored the rest of your post.
you’re a staunch conservative republican, and my opinion is that you’ll say anything to get your own taxes cut – at the peril of everyone and everything else.
May 8, 2012 at 8:51 am #756737
kootchmanMemberMcCain was right in line with Dubya and is a big spender in his own right, As I have said… after a running of the DC RINOS… and a blow up of the deficits… not with a lot of enthusiasm… I voted for Obama as the lesser of two evils. But like millions of American who got a whiff of where this was all going…the TEA Party came to life. Who thought it was possible he could actually spend it faster, borrow more, and break every promise he made about earmarks, open government, tax REFORM (not class warfare). Remember the Obama promise… he would veto any legislation with earmarks? The Affordable Helath Cafe Act had over 14,000 of em….a record, Remember his promise… no new taxes for incomes below 250K.. or… if you like your healthcare plan you can keep it? Not be taxed 40% for the privilege…a 3% national sales tax on selling homes that went underwater with the assistance of Fannie and Freddie..that goes into effect afther the first of the year…the list is very very very long redblack… While you are correct… the trillions we have spent went to political payoffs… you will continue to borrow and spend without the resources or an economy productive enough to sustain the spending…. at the peril of our entire national fiscal structure. You won’t “rip off the painful band aid”… nooooo you are going to wait for a heart transplant.,, or a triage that will make the last four years look like the best of times. Are you watching Spain, Greece, Italy etc? I am TEA Party all the way… and so far, to be effective we have to build a coalition with Republicans.. cause they need us. Look at the map… redder and redder and redder…… we know who is licking off the cream. Not to put too fine a point on it… he sure isn’t running on his record is he? Not a world on Obamacare… which he and congress dithered on for two years while the fiscal house was burning down. See ANY reform of ANY government agency? Or remember the promise in two state of the union addresses to eliminate government regulations that hampered small business formation? Name one. Not one conflicting statement. We are taking away the crack pipe…it’s for our own good. Tough love.
May 8, 2012 at 3:03 pm #756738
JoBParticipantsigh….
spend my day here bickering with bitterness
or work in the garden?
it’s not a tough call
May 8, 2012 at 3:26 pm #756739
TanDLParticipantI’m definitely watching Europe. They took the path of austerity programs driven by Merkel, Sarkosy and the World Banking systems to solve the Euro crisis by insitituting massive cuts and programs of austerity. And guess what? They’ve headed right back into double dip recessions. The result is that the people who are suffering because of all those cuts and austerity programs have begun throwing their existing governments out.
The United States took a different path, instituting stimulus packages, much to the dismay of the priviledged classes of Republicans who are still calling for cuts and austerity programs on the Middle Class. But, we’re beginning to come out of our recession, unlike Europe.
The question is, will we be stupid enough at election time to listen to conservative pundits and buy into their crap about needing more cutbacks and austerity plans to solve our problems, which will surely take us right to the door of double dip. Conservatives in this country sneer at Europe, but the European Union has done exactly what Conservatives in this country are calling for and the results there have been abysmal. Ask people who have relatives in Greece who have lost their jobs and homes by the thousands to austerity programs how angry (and hungry) they are. The European Union might not exist much longer because of their “austerity programs” of cutting, cutting, cutting. Starving a country’s people to pay down debt is a simplistic, stupid answer and the result is revolution. So go ahead, listen to the Conservatives rage about crack pipes and too much spending. Follow their paths of austerity and cutback and watch how we’ll be right in lockstep with Europe.
May 8, 2012 at 3:36 pm #756740
TanDLParticipantOutdoors – fresh air – gardening! Much healthier and will clear the mind for another round of politics later. The bickering will always be here! Dry weather has no such guarantee!
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.