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May 31, 2008 at 12:59 am #621349
beachdrivegirlParticipantHe has won JoB do you not understand how it works??? He has the most delegates won; however, he can not force a competitor out of the running until the convention. Just in every other primary the canidate has had enough respect and common sense to get out of where they are no longer wanted or needed. For how *experienced* and what an *expert* you are on how we should vote and how things work you sure our far from reality on this one.
May 31, 2008 at 1:08 am #621350
beachdrivegirlParticipanttest
May 31, 2008 at 1:19 am #621351
AnonymousInactiveJoB, creating thoughts for others does not make them real.
I suggested you take SOME responsibility for *re-hashing* the same old business. Re-hashing. It was your complaint. You are participating. You share SOME responsibility.
How you could manage to turn that into *JT.. i am not going to defend my right to exist..*, is really quite beyond my understanding.
May 31, 2008 at 1:22 am #621352
charlabobParticipantJT, don’t try to understand — just sit back and enjoy it; really — there’s nothing else to do. I am deeply embarassed for the women of my generation on behalf of those who don’t have sense enough to be.
May 31, 2008 at 1:30 am #621353
KenParticipanthttp://www.donnabrazile.com/viewNews.cfm?id=277
Donna Brazil makes it clear how this will end.
Throughout this long and drawn-out campaign season, I have not wasted any opportunity to advocate for Clinton to be given every chance to achieve her goal. I never counted her out, but after June 3,
I will count the delegates to see who is ahead and by how much.
There are some media reports suggesting that Clinton is now willing to extend the primary fight beyond the last set of primaries. That’s just awful. No matter on which side of the fence Democratic primary voters have decided to stand, a convention battle is not in the party’s best interests.
Democrats are eager to win this year, and it’s time for the noble warriors who are backing the candidates to take their aim or their political swords and focus on John McCain and his allies. It’s time to rally around the nominee as soon as the fourth day of June breaks upon the horizon.
Why not? What would Democrats gain by taking this debate any further, especially when the party is now engaged in the kind of polarizing politics that we once denounced the GOP for using for partisan gain. What can be won by tainting the process, arguing the rules are now unfair, or worse, the Republican rule of winner-takes-all should have guided the Democrats as well? All this fuss is simply about saving face and waiting to see whether some awful thing tarnishes the presumptive nominee. It’s shameful, short-sighted, mean-spirited and morally unacceptable. Now, I said it.
To my longstanding friends in the feminist community who have called out the media as being culturally sexist and misogynistic, it is time to help educate the American public about the corrosive impact of sexism in politics and elsewhere. But we can have this dialogue without using divisive language and political tactics that further threaten to divide our country and party. If another woman comes up to me in an airport and suggests Obama should wait his turn, I might scream, “Stop it!” This is not about who should be first, it’s about who has the most delegates and who might make the best president of the United States.
The most tragic thing I have heard is this need to link the Obama camp to pundits inside the media who have used the “math” historically used to call an election with attempts to push Hillary out of the race. After all, when the senator held a lead in every national poll in 2007, the media described her groundbreaking campaign as being inevitable. No one called that sexist.
Obama will have earned the right to become the declared Democratic nominee once he has reached the 2,026 delegates he needs. If the party decides to amend the just and known penalty it swore to impose on states and those officials that put its voters in jeopardy of not having a voice at the convention by violating the rules, the adjusted number should not alter
the race. Instead, the amendment should allow the presumptive nominee to help bring the party together.
Speaking of unity, it’s time that the same means used to stir up passions, donations and volunteer efforts for our all our party’s presidential candidates be redirected to help mount a credible offense to elect Democratic candidates up and down the ballot this fall. This will require all the party’s presidential campaigns to unite in urging their supporters to come together and stop the smear campaigns.
No serious-minded Democratic official is asking Clinton to disappear. They better not. They know how much the party needs her and every one of her supporters back on the field to help push the nominee and the party down the field to victory. Let’s face it: Clinton can fire up the base like no one else, except perhaps Bill himself. Besides, she alone has proven that America is ready to vote for a woman for president. If she decides to continue to compete for popular votes and delegates, she has every right to do so. DNC Chairman Howard Dean will not stop the process — nor does he have any right to do so. And that also goes for Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who will chair the convention in Denver.
Democratic primary voters will need time for reconciliation, and the process needs to start sooner rather than later. Healing takes time.
Both Clinton and Obama agree that once preconditions have been met, speaking to foreign enemies is a necessary first step toward peace. This basic tenet of diplomacy is best practiced by first being able to speak to one’s colleagues at home.
At the very least, however difficult, it’s a good place to start. Come dawn on
the fourth day of June, it will be high time to lay down arms, leaving hands free to pick up the olive branch and unite before going into battle.
May 31, 2008 at 1:45 am #621354
AnonymousInactiveKen, you are a constant source of reasonable information. Someday, I wish you’d post a list of all the sites you read.
May 31, 2008 at 1:55 am #621355
charlabobParticipantThanks, Ken! That’s truly amazing.
BTW, for real politics geeks, CS-SPAN broadcast of the Rules and Bylaw Committee meeting has started. They are currently broadcasting the hearing in November, where R&B assessed the penalties for Michigan and Florida. Tomorrow broadcast of the current hearing starts up again at 6:30 a.m. our time. I find it absolutely fascinating, no matter what they decide.
May 31, 2008 at 2:05 am #621356
JoBParticipantbeachdrivegirl..
I understand exactly how it works.
the candidates for the party campaign.
if one of them hits the magic number for committed state delegates… they win the nomination on the spot.
if not… the nomination goes to the convention where what is considered to be a standoff is settled by superdelegates…
it’s not really that clearcut.. because what happens is a lot of negotiation.. not a lot of voting… it’s all really decided most of the time before they walk in the door..
that process didn’t change from the beginning to the end.
it’s a little snagged because the DNC chose to grandstand with Florida and Michigan figuring they would never have to pay the bill.. and that has complicated things…
but the process is pretty much what it always is.
if Obama was the overwhelming choice of democrats in this country.. he would have his magic number…
if other democrats believed as you do.. they would have stopped voting for Hillary… and he would get his magic number.
There is no way around the fact that democrats have not stop voting for Hillary
the nomination is not and never has been decided by simple majority…
noone has won.
as for whether Hillary is wanted or needed.. i think you might rethink that.
It is clear that a large part of the democratic party clearly supports her candidacy.
Hillary’s supporters do not favor her withdrawing from the nomination… and that has little to do with obstinacy…
if she withdraws.. she has no bargaining chips for issues that matter to us… and there is far more at stake at the convention than just the selecting the nominee…
I want Hillary to walk in to any negotiation with the strongest hand she can get… and i am not alone.
Even if she does not end up the candidate.. she will be wanted and needed by the party.
You may have bought the story that she is just political baggage.. but i doubt very much that the democratic party has…
Obama supporters can’t win the general election on their own. Hillary’s support is going to be crucial..
if and when she withdraws it will be from a position of strength… gaining something for those who support her in the process… and yes.. maybe something for herself… I personally think Obama’s campaign should pay her campaign debts for running the costs of a primary so high…
There is no clear winner. So now this becomes politics. They negotiate.. they bluff.. they bluster… the try to find some compromise that keeps both sides of the party happy.
neither of us sees a way that can happen right now.. but we will see…
In the meantime.. obama is actually stronger in the fall the longer Hillary stays in. You may be doing fine on the McCain thread.. i confess i haven’t felt well enough to look yet… but the republican attack machine won’t be truly launched against him until he is the nominee.. and i am not exaggerating when i say you haven’t seen anything yet…
troll some of the republican sites and then follow their links back if you can stomach it… The further you go, the uglier it gets…
As for what Obama should be doing in the meantime.. in my opinion it is time his campaign moved past selling the campaign and the movement and started selling their candidate to the rest of the democratic party…
He should denounce the anti-Hillary smear campaign on the blogs.. denounce the blatant sexism.. say that it was never enough for him not not personally participate.. he now sees that he should have said more… tread the high road he says he’s on.
if not.. he really isn’t in much better position facing McCain in the fall who condemns skulduggery while raising money for those who perpetrate it.
Nancy Pelosi said something very interesting in an interview lately.. she said any comination Obama and Clinton ticket would be a winning ticket this fall.. but that it would not happen… i think she followed in that interview with the comment “what would they do with her husband?”
now.. that’s interesting… there is definately infighting going on in the democratic party that is not good “for the good of the party” and yet it looks like both sides will fight to the literal death…
Mostly all we can do now is stand back and see what comes of it.
May 31, 2008 at 2:08 am #621357
TammiWSMemberThis string makes me tired! Thanks Ken for a great read. One can only hope…..The R’s must love this string! Just what they are sitting back and all along hoping would happen – infighting and not paying close attention to McCain – and here were are feeding it in our tiny little WSB community!
May 31, 2008 at 2:28 am #621358
JoBParticipantjt..
you didn’t ask me to take some responsibility for my actions..
you told me i was responsible for the animosity on the blog…
i take full responsibility for my actions.
i spent the weekend away from here both acknowledging and examining my anger…
and before i stepped back in.. i decided i that i did not need to hold myself to some higher standard of behavior…
while those i was talking with not only wouldn’t hold to a similar standard towards my candidate but found it acceptable to personally attack me…
I haven’t lowered my standards to name calling or insinuations about Senator Obama.. I haven’t called a single person here a name..
but i have decided it is ok to get angry about being treated badly…
i am not taking any more s..t …. from anyone..
if you want to speak publicly with me.. speak to me with respect and you will get respect back.
if you want to speak sarcastically to me.. you will get sarcasm back…
You want to throw facts and figures at me.. i will throw them back…
you want to trade insults.. you will get insults.
I am sick.. i am tired.. i am in more pain than i have ever been in my life… and i am angry at the behavior i have seen exhibited here.. and not just towards me.
If those who post here are going to assume that i am some kind of malicious person who will argue for the sake of argument.., and will do anything to win… then that is who they will meet on this blog.
I am not that person.. but apparently once a few of you decided i was.. my personal history of kindness and consideration just got in the way of a good storyline..
I never chose to make any of this discussion public… each and every one of you who chose to lob personal insults at me has always had my personal email… most of you have my personal phone number…
and with friends i listen to anything.. even complaints about my bad behavior…
May 31, 2008 at 3:11 am #621359
AnonymousInactiveI love how Ken can cut and paste an entire article into his post and he is deemed a wealth of information!
Hilarious.
From now on, when I read something absolutely fantastic in the WSJ, I will just copy the whole thing into my post!!!
May 31, 2008 at 3:17 am #621360
AnonymousInactiveAnd JoB – I don’t think anyone has ever personally insulted you (except for myself, maybe). It’s just that you seem to take EVERY insult against Hillary, personally.
I’ve also noticed that you seem to apply certain beliefs and opinions to people when that just isn’t the case. You can take something that someone posts and make it into something else. You’ve done this to me, you’ve done this a lot.
It also seems to me that you believe your opinions are the only ones that should matter. You constantly debunk everyone else’s opinions if it is not in line with your own.
Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE what you are saying about Obama!!!! I couldn’t agree more. It’s when we are talking about Hillary that it gets extremely personal with you.
I think that is mainly what frustrates people.
May 31, 2008 at 3:32 am #621361
AnonymousInactiveNR, post away. Just not from their op-ed page:)
May 31, 2008 at 3:38 am #621362
AnonymousInactiveWouldn’t Donna Brazil’s piece be considered op-ed?
May 31, 2008 at 3:42 am #621363
AnonymousInactiveI don’t have a problem with liberal op-eds. I agree with them :)
May 31, 2008 at 3:46 am #621364
AnonymousInactiveOh, of course! What was I thinking?!? Lol!
May 31, 2008 at 4:06 am #621365
KenParticipantYo NR
I trimmed off the first two paragraphs, and I posted the url for the whole thing. It is not from a newspaper. It is from her own companies web site.
It is also a blockquote. I feel it falls under “fair use” even though her sites copyright notice is 4 years out of date and part of the original theme.
If you want to charge me with copyright violation I can probably get Donna to give me a letter stating permission. I have her non public email address but I have not used it in years.
Do what you think is appropriate as you see it.
I will do the same.
And a note for the rest of you. Carl Levin and the MDP have tried to jump the gun on Iowa and New Hampshire in every presidential primary year since 1998. They were sanctioned in 2000 and uncommitted beat LaRouche that year since everyone else removed their name from the ballot.
Read the details here if you are interested. This post is by a native Michigan Dem.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/5/28/182938/509
For more background, follow this link for the complete time line of MI and FL and their attempts to grab a share of the retail politics dollar train in the past decade.
http://www.mrsuper.org/2008/05/florida-michiga.html
That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history.
–Aldous Huxley
May 31, 2008 at 4:17 am #621366
AnonymousInactiveHey.. No worries, Ken. I wasn’t bashing you in the least!
It’s amusing to me, however, that you post a complete quote from an article, a website, a radio show, a television show, what have you, and every one goes gaga!
You do it all the time and it’s kinda you’re “thing”. I have absolutely no problem with it.
Ever notice, though, that whatever link I share with the group gets dismissed right away because it is deemed “conservative”?
I was just thinking, instead of posting the link, maybe I will cut and paste the parts of certain articles I like.
May 31, 2008 at 3:19 pm #621367
JoBParticipanti didn’t put words into anyone’s mouths…
i didn’t twist anything around to make people look bad..
and i am not ding this any more.
play by yourselves…
i don’t need this.
May 31, 2008 at 3:42 pm #621368
JoBParticipantBTW.. new resident..
your post to ken is a good example of the rudeness that has become part of this blog…
ken posts little. What he posts is always on point…
and he chooses to post his opinion by referencing other work .. to which he always creates a link to so you can read the entire piece…
and I have never seen Ken post anything inflammatory…
it’s good that you apologized.. but it would have been far better not to trounce first and backtrack later.
and on that note, i really am done..
May 31, 2008 at 4:44 pm #621369
beachdrivegirlParticipantJoB i am sorry you take things so personally but this is actually a relatively calm blog from others I have seen. Just because we dont agree with you does not mean it is a personal attack. But you are a bit unreasonable at times so we do get passionate back.
And in response to your comment to me.
1) It is asinine to actually think that Obama should pay Clintons campaign dates. Just because he has rallied more support and he managed his finances while she relied on the support of only a few of the Democratic parties wealthier supporters and they maxed their donations and she obviously missed accounting 101 does not seem reason enough for me to have my donations to Obama go to pay her debts. I dont pay your rent or mortgage do i???
2) Obama has asked for unity. He has said many times publicly he respects Clinton and respects that she is staying the race until the end of the primary season because he does see how passionate her supporters are. So dont say that he isnt doing these things.
3) Your interview is off with Nancy Pelosi. Nancy Pelosi said that a dream Obama/Clinton ticket is not feaseable now NOT because of President Bill Clinton but because of Senator Hillary Clinton tactless decision to endorse Senator John McCain over Senator Obama. I dont have time to find the link now.
May 31, 2008 at 5:07 pm #621370
charlabobParticipantNR, you actually should post paragraphs because, truthfully, I doubt many people follow your links :-) One of my functions in the political world is op research, so I actually read the worst of the right, and I’m on the mailing lists for most of their candidates. Shhhhh don’t tell ’em. :-)
BDG, Wexler is amazing — Sundance Channel has a series, from a few years back, called “The Hill.” Its in reruns now, so political junkies should look for it. It’s about Wexler and his staff, back when they were trying to decide what to do about the war and Katrina — both “local” issues to him. It’s SO much fun to watch — the passion of the kids on the staff (yup, job, I’m selling out again), and the measured passion of the congressman. One of the things I enjoy about watching him now, is that he obviously caught a lot of their passion.
May 31, 2008 at 8:00 pm #621371
AnonymousInactiveJoB – Don’t know if you’re still around, but I really don’t need you telling me what my posts ARE and aren’t.
I think Ken can handle himself just fine.
You seem to not have the ability to realize when people are being light hearted and funny.
A lot of people have been done conversing with you for awhile anyways, so maybe there isn’t anything left for you to say.
Please don’t read my posts anymore, you don’t seem to be able to understand. And I would certainly appreciate that you not critique my posts anymore as well.
Thank you in advance.
Charla – I gave it a try over on the “Go Barack” thread. I think you’re right about not following the links. I have to admit that I don’t always follow all the links shared.
May 31, 2008 at 9:27 pm #621372
AnonymousInactiveNR, I didn’t think you were rude at all. Thought you were just flipping Ken sh*t. We all jump on your ideas and you take it really well.
May 31, 2008 at 9:44 pm #621373
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