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March 17, 2009 at 6:51 pm #660675
i just spent some time looking for THE law that prohibits dogs from public places… and i couldn’t find it.
i could find plenty of articles that refer to that law…
and a whole lot of law about the illegality of denying anyone with a dog they identify as a service dog total access…
but no luck finding THE law.
so perhaps someone who enjoys doing that kind of research could post it…
the law is very clear.
If a patron is asked if the animal accompanying them is a service animal and they reply that it is, it is illegal for any establishment to deny them total access and service.
countering with health issues when you raised them yourself is not a straw man argument…
If you wanted to argue this based solely on the law, you should not have mentioned your allergies…
your wise crack about too-much-cologne headaches is uncalled for and incredibly insensitive for someone who wants others to be more accommodating to her own health issues…
“in my opinion, is with the people that just do not understand how their actions (in this case, bringing along a dog) effect others.”
the headaches caused by too much cologne are often migraines and can be debilitating for those who suffer from them.
the asthma attacks triggered by too-much-perfume can be lethal.
why wouldn’t that be pertinent if you are only concerned that people understand how their actions affect others?March 17, 2009 at 6:54 pm #660676
Actually, I do get headaches from people who wear too much cologne/perfume. And the headache I have now is similar to that – a sort of fuzzy, dull ache. But I digress.March 17, 2009 at 7:03 pm #660677
i am glad for you that all you get is a sort of fuzzy dull ache. i could live with that…
unfortunately, many people are not so lucky…
and i have seen more than one person grab for an inhaler after passing someone who wanted us all to enjoy their scent as much as they do…March 17, 2009 at 7:04 pm #660678
the p.. on the floor in the bar might as well be from the drunk standing next to you as from the dog accompanying them…
and as long as you don’t let dogs kiss you.. you don’t need to worry what they have been licking.
i seem to recall that a dog’s mouth is actually cleaner than our own…
considering where some people put their mouths, i am not at all surprised ;->March 17, 2009 at 7:11 pm #660679
I’m sorry JoB, but your perfume argument is a straw man. I sympathize for what you deal with, really I do. Let’s turn that around into an apt comparison to what I’ve been talking about. Imaging that the health department did pass a ban on wearing fragrances in public enclosed spaces, including bars and restaurants. Finally, you can go out and not worry about getting a debilitating migraine or having trouble breathing!
Now imagine that your favorite restaurant, one you visit more than any other, doesn’t enforce this ban and the place has become known as THE place to go if you want to wear fragrance. (Yes, this is an odd set-up, I realize). Would you be ok with that, or would you want to say something to the restaurant’s proprietors? Would you expect them to enforce the no-fragrance ban?March 17, 2009 at 7:34 pm #660680
I don’t think BPP is specifically dog friendly. Nowhere on their website do they say to bring your dog along. They just don’t enforce the rules b/c it clearly doesn’t bother the owners, which is fine. I just don’t understand why some people feel the need to bring their dog(s) with them to the pub when roughly half the people there probably aren’t dog lovers. You can’t bring a minor to the bar so why the dog?March 17, 2009 at 8:09 pm #660681
I’m noticing a common trend of, *if I don’t like it, it shouldn’t be happening, if I DO like it (agree with it), then it’s ok*.
Not everyone will be happy with the way everything is – in any situation. I LOVED the Hooters analogy, btw (perfect example).
I am glad that Sarah shared her letter to BPP. I’m anxious to see how they respond.
But, I think Sarah poses a great question in her last post. I, too, would like to know the answer.March 17, 2009 at 8:14 pm #660682
i would avoid the bar. it’s that simple.
i avoid lots of places right now that there are ample laws in place to prohibit the behavior that keeps me from going there… and yet the behavior continues.
A good example is that even though my dogs are always leashed i avoid public parks at high traffic times because too many people there walk their dogs off leash and they are a danger to me and my pets.
my hubby will no longer walk the dogs in Lincoln Park in the morning.. in spite of the fact that he loved doing so.. because of the stress caused by unleashed animals… and he’s over 6 foot and fit.
another is noise laws. there are ample laws on the books that limit noise levels in public places but they are seldom enforced… which means those are places i don’t get to go.
do i get what the issues are?
Probably far more than you do since i am prohibited from going to a huge number of public spaces because of health issues or because of people who choose to break the law…
but it doesn’t stop there.
i am still often harassed when i pull into a handicapped parking space to park.. even though i have a permit to do so.. because i don’t “look” disabled…
even though i have aged and i often move like someone who is approaching 100 years… and am approached by security guards in stores asking if i need assistance…
you make a lot of assumptions about the dogs in BPP, but it is as likely that some of them are valid service dogs as not…
Would i like things to be different? Would i like a little of that consideration you think dog owners should give to others?
Yes, i would.
But i certainly don’t expect it… and i don’t turn people or businesses in for violating the laws put in place to protect me…
i just leave.
i do try to educate others as to the impact they may have on others and i do try to change policies to accommodate accessibility…
but my needs, even when protected by law, are not enough to impose my restrictions on others unless their actions create a life threatening situation…
in which case you can bet that i will speak up in a heartbeat… i wouldn’t want it to be my last.March 17, 2009 at 8:16 pm #660683
i just got an email from Seattle Parks and Rec asking for park name suggestions for some new parks (Morgan junction among them). first thing to come to mind is Dog Pee Park. Ciggy-butt park might be a good second. i can’t remember if, during the planning meetings for that park, if we discussed urine-tolerant vegetation. hopefully BPP will encourage their patrons to be respectful of that space as it really isn’t a toilet or an ashtray.(and yes, i do know that they are partly responsible for its existence.) Still, ….March 17, 2009 at 8:37 pm #660684
You could name it “dog free park.” I can think of one person that would please….
Can you get the park name displayed on a low sign? My dog likes to pee on signs so I want to make sure its low enough for her to reach. Thanks.
*smiles*March 17, 2009 at 8:58 pm #660685
I believe there is a law against dogs in bars. The reason I say this is because the past two legislative sessions, Sen. Ken Jacobsen has sponsored a bill to allow dogs in bars.
This has not passed and has no chance of passing this session because it didn’t make the cutoff last week for getting bills out of their house of origin.March 17, 2009 at 9:02 pm #660686
I recall having this discussion before (very similar):
Interesting that some people have changed their position on things that affect others. Just sayin.March 17, 2009 at 9:03 pm #660687
I don’t think its really a question of *if* its illegal. Its totally illegal without question.
The only remaining discussion is if its a jerk move to narc on one of the three bars in town who look the other way, on the service dog loophole. So you can have your way in a bar where the owner, and *most* patrons obliviously disagree with you.
Your singling out a unique bar, and then complaining about how its unique because it isn’t convenient to your personal disposition.March 17, 2009 at 9:19 pm #660688
Everyone is forgetting a very important point here!
Is there any regulation to make sure these dogs are at least 3 years of age and are legally allowed to be in the bar in the first place?
:)March 17, 2009 at 9:21 pm #660689
BPP must be doing something right, they have a perfect record with the Board of Health:March 17, 2009 at 9:28 pm #660690
Vincent, it seem to me that the people at risk are not BPP, but the people claiming their dogs are service dogs. BPP asks, and they can only comply with what the dog owner states. BPP can’t take it any further can they, or risk discrimination? Or a lawsuit in case they are proven wrong? So what else do you want them to do? If the dog isn’t being a nusance otherwise, I’m not sure they need to call BOH at midnight to hustle them in to card the dog owner LOL!!! I have seen more obnoxious people in bars than dog owners, too bad we can’t have it out for them. Or people with visible tats. Or too much makeup. Or excessive outfits. Or brown hats. Or cell phone yackers. Or, or, or, or…..March 17, 2009 at 10:24 pm #660691
Jeez, there are enough bars in this town for everyone. Let’s support the diversity, folks! It’s this kind of quirkiness that makes Seattle APPEALING. A bar that allows/supports a dog presence is fantastic. If someone doesn’t like it, they simply don’t belong there, period. Find a new hangout. Go to Belltown.
Look at Fremont — it’s losing (or lost) any zany appeal it used to have. Now it looks like any other region. Do we really want Seattle to become a homogenous, boring landscape? Please don’t destroy the things I love about this place.March 17, 2009 at 11:06 pm #660692
I don’t go to a lot of bars because they don’t play the music I like, or have TVs blaring, or its just a “tool shed”. I don’t try and change the bar though, I just find one I like. There are plenty of drinking establishments around the area.March 17, 2009 at 11:37 pm #660693
mom2soren..agreed……I truly can’t believe this discussion has gone on this long….sigh..we should all be embracing our diversity, or what a boring place this would be…:)March 17, 2009 at 11:44 pm #660694
Jan, this is where I like to “come in” on these mega-topics. Soon it will get humorous. Someone will say something sublimely funny; others will follow and it will all be defused and then fade away. I’ve seen it before here on the forum.March 17, 2009 at 11:46 pm #660695March 17, 2009 at 11:56 pm #660696
As I have stayed away from this thread I don’t know where the hooters and cat crap came in. I reckon it was too early in the thread and didn’t have the effect needed. People will get punchy.March 18, 2009 at 12:16 am #660697
I’ve debated for a while now for stepping in, but I did want to add, because while I get the want to do what you want at a bar, I also get where Sarah is coming from, and have written to BPP about the same thing, as it’s why I stopped for a while now (going to give it another chance this week.) My allergies arn’t as bad, but the bigger thing is that while I don’t hate dogs, I am in no way a dog lover, and sharing the evenings with dogs is not really what I am wanting when I go out.. And if there were more bars in walking distance of Morgan I’d be there too, but there’s not, BPP is pretty much it.
Having worked in retail for many years it is true if you claim it’s a “service dog” then the dog can stay with you, but I hate to see that used just so you can bring your dog into a bar.
I’m all about supporting diversity and all, but I think something to be supported on both sides.
*back to lurking*March 18, 2009 at 12:17 am #660698
i personally draw the line at dogs taking up bar stools and chairs…
or sharing beers…March 18, 2009 at 12:20 am #660699
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