Home › Forums › Open Discussion › will the tunnel cut us off from downtown?
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July 9, 2010 at 12:55 am #595476
marywsParticipantIs it true that the tunnel–the replacement of the viaduct–will not allow drivers to exit in the downtown area? anybody know plans to deal with drivers that now use the viaduct to get to downtown, from the south, from west seattle, from the north?
July 9, 2010 at 2:06 am #698610
SomeGuyParticipantI think that is true; the current issue of The Stranger has an interesting article, with the following excerpt:
“The numbers for the tunnel—once it’s completed—don’t look very good. The current Alaskan Way Viaduct carries about 110,000 cars a day. Once the tunnel opens in 2015, the number of cars using Highway 99 through downtown Seattle will drop to 46,000 cars a day, according to a tolling study by the state. That means 64,000 additional vehicles a day will be forced onto downtown surface roads, along the waterfront, and onto I-5. Why? Cars that want to go downtown can’t use the tunnel because it will have no downtown exits. And people who don’t want to pay the toll won’t use it. During peak hours, the trip will be $4 one way and $3.50 the other. That’s $7.50 to use the tunnel. Many of the cars diverted from Highway 99 will pour into Pioneer Square instead, further clogging that neighborhood’s already traffic-clogged streets.”
Link to full article:
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/what-could-possibly-go-wrong/Content?oid=4399657
July 9, 2010 at 3:31 am #698611
dhgParticipantThis is so distressing. The tunnel was never a good idea and now it looks even worse.
July 9, 2010 at 3:49 am #698612
JayDeeParticipantdhg:
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Compared to what? The tunnel will let one exit at Royal Brougham (whoppee) and somewhere around Republic Street near Seattle Center, with no Seneca offramp.
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Granted, I love the current viaduct’s options, but the thing is an eye/ear/sore. Mayor Mcaginnit’s “surface option” is just a hairshirt to get us to take transit and bike (I’d like to see Mr. McGinn ride from Admiral to downtown every day in, let’s say, November). Leaving it up is great until it tips over (see Nimitz freeway Viaduct in Oakland). The tunnel is not a good idea–it is the least worst choice. IMHO.
July 9, 2010 at 4:45 am #698613
hammerheadParticipantYes very distressing, I will have to cancel all of my clients going that way, or increase my rates alot to make up for my loss. This is a horrible option.
I am already seeing a huge increase in traffic since south park bridge has been closed.
I have noticed they are pulling up the railroad track along West Marginal not quite sure why. Maybe to make more room for more roads?
The tunnel is not going to help at all. Just retro fit the Viaduct, call it good.
Then even worse the rescue work that I do I can’t even image the the extra costs I will have to deal with. I will do what I need to do for the animals, but god it will hurt.
I assume emergency for humans there is no toll.
July 9, 2010 at 5:18 am #698614
JoBParticipantso. they have announced a toll?
July 9, 2010 at 5:46 am #698615
YardvarkMemberIf you have a toll to drive on downtown streets during morning and afternoon rush hour, as has been tossed around, a lot of the diversion from the toll tunnel wouldn’t happen.
I second the notion that the tunnel is the least worst choice.
July 9, 2010 at 6:19 am #698616
CarolPBMemberTolls on downtown streets?? I pay taxes-isn’t that enough to allow me to drive on 4th Ave?? I drive 99 from Highland Park to upper Queena Anne 4 days a week. Very concerned about this issue!
July 9, 2010 at 6:40 am #698617
WSBKeymasterThere are no downtown exits planned for the tunnel. This is not new news. This has been part of the plan since the tunnel deal was announced. Also, the ways that will be available to get to downtown have been reported extensively here – I’ve been the only reporter at the meetings of the South Portal Working Group, which has dealt expressly with the south end – the part that is about to get rebuilt, and how it ties into downtown and West Seattle.
We don’t editorialize so we have no position pro- or con-tunnel. But there has been an abundance of information available. We’ve had links, maps, articles, you name it. If you would like to review past coverage, the Alaskan Way Viaduct coverage category is here.
https://westseattleblog.com/blog/category/alaskan-way-viaduct
Regarding tolls, yes, the state expects to have tolls for the tunnel. Here’s our report from last January:
https://westseattleblog.com/2010/01/more-new-alaskan-way-viaduct-info-tunnel-tolls-up-to-3-50
The issue of tolling beyond the tunnel also came up in January. I spoke personally with the guy who’s in charge of the whole viaduct project right after the meeting and what he had to say is in this story
https://westseattleblog.com/2010/01/alaskan-way-viaduct-future-toll-beyond-the-tunnel-unlikely
The South Portal Working Group meets again July 28, and as always, we will report what’s new either during the meeting or immediately afterward. The state has tons of information available at its website http://www.alaskanwayviaduct.org if you want to catch up on the various aspects of the project, besides reading our back articles.
P.S. To the issue of specifically how you would get into downtown, while it’s a little hard to wade through without context (and I still can’t completely explain it off the cuff despite having covered so much of this process), this is the presentation of the current “south portal alignment” showing the streets you would use to get into downtown.
An important point that should be reiterated here is that part of the intent of the new 4th Avenue offramp from the Spokane Street Viaduct’s eastbound side, is that some might use it to get into downtown rather than 99.
But yes, the bottom line remains, this will be much different from the convenient Seneca-offramp-dumping-you-right-into-downtown way things are now. The tunnel also will end further north than the Central Waterfront section ends now.
July 9, 2010 at 6:51 am #698618
Garden_nymphMemberTR and Patrick, have we mentioned yet today how much we appreciate the extensive coverage you bring us and all the hard work you do!? This is MY daily thank you!
July 9, 2010 at 6:57 am #698619
WSBKeymasterThanks, I know we dump a huge amount of info onto the site every day and it’s impossible for anybody to keep up with it all, but on this one particular issue, we have made a point of trying to stay as plugged in as possible. It frankly annoys me that nobody else, whether neighborhood or citywide media, bothers to cover this, but that’s the way things have shaken out. City Light put on a briefing today about a program that affects West Seattle and several other neighborhoods in the city – I went to Rainier Beach for the briefing (the story will be up overnight) and again, no other media there (but the Seattle Channel, bless ’em).
Again, it may be a well-kept secret that we do have coverage categories (list is at the bottom of the sidebar) and if you are following something in particular, whether it be the Alaskan Way Viaduct, the Alki Homestead, The Kenney, parks issues, if we have a category for it, you can just click it on the list (or bookmark it, or use the RSS feed to follow in your reader) and catch up to see what’s new, when you get a chance.
Next three days, we’ll be live at Summer Fest, so come say hi. I believe WSDOT has a booth again too, so seriously, you can come ask them your viaduct questions directly!
July 9, 2010 at 7:12 am #698620
Garden_nymphMemberI’ll see you at the Street Fair! I think you need to sell, “got Chupacabra?” shirts and print, “WestSeattleBlog.com does” on the back. You could also have other versions like, “got bacon?”… you get the idea! I kid you not, I can no longer function without this amazing creation of yours! I hope that someone, at least daily, thanks you for all you do!
July 9, 2010 at 1:39 pm #698621
cathywMemberI’m glad people are starting to pay more attention to the ramifications of this project. I know at least one family that has already moved out of West Seattle and over to Beacon Hill in order to avoid the anticipated mess. So, what happens if the tunnel “doesn’t work?” What happens if it and the surrounding streets don’t have the capacity to handle the traffic? Am I supposed to pay nearly $10 for a trip to Queen Anne? It sounds like a real possibility. What’s plan B if it doesn’t work? And what happens if there is a major glitch in the drilling of the tunnel itself? Why does the City of Seattle alone have to bear the burden of cost overruns? Why is the Mayor not getting any support on this? And why is the City Council not protecting us? A new viaduct might not be the most appealing visually, but considering the expense and inconvenience of the other options, I like it just fine. In fact, I love going over the Viaduct – especially in the Summer. The view is fabulous and it is the best way to get north from West Seattle.
July 9, 2010 at 3:35 pm #698622
cathywMemberCost overruns for the Boston tunnel were $11 billion! Can Seattle afford that? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_overrun
July 9, 2010 at 4:08 pm #698623
KBearParticipantI am so tired of all the misinformation from anti-tunnel folks. Retrofitting the viaduct is not an option. It was studied and found not to be feasible. Our proposed tunnel is not at all comparable in scale to Boston’s Big Dig, so that project’s cost overruns are not relevant. Just because the exits are configured differently does not mean you won’t be able to get downtown, but it does mean a more efficient commute for those who are trying to get THROUGH town. And if you think paying taxes entitles you to drive on any road for free, why should we have to pay a fare to ride a public bus?
July 9, 2010 at 4:09 pm #698624
HuindekmiParticipantThe current viaduct has two exits: one at Seneca and one at Western. The tunnel will have two exits: one at Royal Brougham (~1/2 mile south of the Seneca exit) and one just north of the Seattle Center (~1/2 mile north of the Western exit).
In other words, same number of exits, just moved slightly further from the center of downtown to the edges of downtown.
Oh My God! What ever will I do? I’ll never be able to get downtown now that I have to exit a half mile sooner!
July 9, 2010 at 4:31 pm #698625
maplesyrupParticipantlol Huindekmi
And those who are in favor of the surface street option can still take those routes if they want.
July 9, 2010 at 4:33 pm #698626
KBearParticipant“And those who are in favor of the surface street option can still take those routes if they want.”
Heh, heh. It’s a win-win for everyone!
July 9, 2010 at 6:23 pm #698627
blackwatchMemberThe tunnel is really the only viable option. Has anyone considered what life in WS would be like if they tore down the viaduct to replace it and all cars were using the surface streets? They’d have to close WS. I think that’s why they went with the tunnel in the first place, at least we have a viaduct to use while they bore the tunnel.
I drive the viaduct everyday to take my wife to work and I’m really going to miss the downtown exit…but then if there is a toll as high as they’re talking about , I won’t be able to afford it anyway………
July 9, 2010 at 7:07 pm #698628
marywsParticipantthanks to the WSB for coverage of this topic and to everybody responding w/ info.
In my day job I am tasked with keeping up with world news (financial, very grim of late) and confess to ignoring anxiety-producing local issues as long as possible! Yes, maybe the tunnel is the least worst of all the options but I am still shocked about bypassing downtown and the evident lack of improvement in other options (bus service, HOV lanes on the streets, etc) for those of us coming from the south and west. But this is the city that spent much of its transportation $ in the 80s on the bus tunnel…
If anyone is interested in a last ditch effort to make our concerns known to the mayor and council, let me know.
Again, kudos to the WSB and to the Stranger for coverage!
July 9, 2010 at 10:01 pm #698629
HolyKowMemberThe surface option would be the best option if they would widen that area. As it stands, the alleys that they call streets down there will not take the capacity. But if they tear down that old eyesore of a death-trap they call a viaduct and then make it 6 lanes to the battery st. tunnel with 2 going thru in each lane and 1 pealing off to get up to Denny, then we would be AWESOME.
As of now, when the cost overruns hit and we have to pay, that will be decidedly UN-awesome.
And read the plan, there is not any really useful downtown exit, no matter what mythic man up there says…
Royal Bro-ham – not downtown – old crap entrances to Downtown will be overrun
Seattle Center – not downtown – surface streets will be blocked up with everyone trying to get back into downtown and you run smack dab into the I5ers trying to use that route in as well.
That was the beauty of the Seneca exit. No I5 traffic confluence. Heart of the Seattle Downtown Core.
hk
July 9, 2010 at 11:35 pm #698630
johnnyblegsMember“The current viaduct has two exits: one at Seneca and one at Western. The tunnel will have two exits: one at Royal Brougham (~1/2 mile south of the Seneca exit) and one just north of the Seattle Center (~1/2 mile north of the Western exit).”
What if you ride the 54 or 55 into downtown? What exit will they take with the tunnel? Will they increase the fare to compensate for the toll? I’m really gonna miss Seneca when the 55 has to get off @ Royal Brougham to go up a congested 1st ave.
July 10, 2010 at 1:15 am #698631
JanSParticipanthmmm…..what would Charlie Chong do? Waiting for someone to bring up secession again ;-)
July 10, 2010 at 3:14 pm #698632
JoBParticipantsecession only works for those whose jobs are on the island :(
July 12, 2010 at 6:34 pm #698633
cookie addictMemberWe take the 21 bus into downtown for games, events, music, etc… I have a feeling that the bus trip will take MUCH longer is there is ANY additional traffic on 1st.
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