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August 28, 2015 at 8:48 pm #818311
ViennaParticipantThis $930M levy seems to do very little for West Seattle; some paving, a few bike lanes and some school zone safety improvements. Other areas of the city seem to be getting more bang for their buck. Tom Rasmussen may have gotten some last minute language into the deal asking for study of better access to and from West Seattle but no specific projects are included.
For consideration:
Will Sound Transit 3 do more for West Seattle than Move Seattle? Taxpayers may only have the will to support one of these not both.
Would west Seattle be better off if Move Seattle fails and our new District 1 councilmember can fight for a better package in a new levy.
August 28, 2015 at 10:15 pm #827324
wakefloodParticipantAll fine questions, Vienna. And that calculus will be going through every voter’s minds as they fill out the ballot.
And it should be noted that a good chunk – 20%+ – of this goes into SDOT’s operating budget. What are the implications if that doesn’t get renewed?
Things to think about!
August 31, 2015 at 7:24 pm #827325
skeeterParticipantDoes anyone know if Herbold or Braddock have an opinion on this? It’s a very good question. Thank you Vienna.
August 31, 2015 at 8:40 pm #827326
wakefloodParticipantI’d check their websites, Skeets but there’s an upcoming candidate forum that will focus on WS transportation issues coming up. That question will be near/at the top of the things for them to respond to.
If I was to guess, I’d suggest that at least Braddock is a YES and maybe Herbold as well? But don’t quote me on that.
September 1, 2015 at 1:07 am #827327
texasMemberThis is what Lisa Herbold said in the “Last Look” interviews by WBS on July 24 (this is taken verbatim from WSB):
WILL SHE VOTE FOR THE ‘MOVE SEATTLE’ LEVY? Yes. Although – “I was a strong proponent for diversifying the funding mechanisms,” which didn’t happen; “that said, I’m not going to let the perfect be the enemy of the good.” She acknowledges that many people believe the reliance on property-tax levies is problematic. As for what’s in the levy, she thinks any neighborhood could say there’s not enough in it for them; she wishes it had more specifics about where new sidewalks will be built, for example, and stronger pedestrian-safety commitments. She thinks people might not understand that levies like this are “ongoing things,” funding what there’s no “sustainable source of revenue” for, so you don’t ever get to the point where “things are fixed.”
September 1, 2015 at 1:08 am #827328
texasMemberThis is what Shannon Braddock said at the same interview (from WSB, July 24):
WILL SHE VOTE FOR THE ‘MOVE SEATTLE’ LEVY? Yes; she believes there’s “enough” in it for District 1.
September 1, 2015 at 1:17 am #827329
texasMemberI posted those because I remembered them when it was time for me to vote. My most important criterion was the candidate’s attitude about the SDOT transportation levy, in this city with abysmal traffic congestion. Unfortunately, neither one was satisfactory. I would like to see someone with the courage to stand up, instead of lobbying for more money in their little fiefdoms; someone who would prioritize and talk about the BIG picture of Seattle congestion. Bike lanes and pedestrian improvements are not going to improve congestion. Road diets and social engineering are not going to improve congestion. Lack of bus service is not going to improve congestion. I am saving my vote for Sound Transit, because that’s where the real solution will be found.
September 1, 2015 at 1:39 am #827330
wakefloodParticipantWell Texas, the WS Transpo Coalition hosted Seattle Subway presentation last week and their new position that they’re trying to get support for is the “full meal deal” of which you speak. ST 3 would last for decades and connect it all. Check them out online. And both candidates were there.
They may or may not support this new plan but it’s going to be asked at the candidate forum, to be sure.
September 1, 2015 at 1:42 am #827331
maplesyrupParticipantI asked Shannon Braddock about the “enough” statement and she basically said it’s a lot better than nothing and we’d lose federal funding if we vote this down. Knowing how Seattle made that mistake once already I can see where she’s coming from.
Furthermore she said the way the money is allocated is not a done deal, and that if elected she’d fight hard for more projects that impact us.
September 1, 2015 at 2:36 am #827332
JayDeeParticipantLook, in inflation-adjusted numbers the previous levy (bridge the gap) would be around $571MM. Instead the new levy is $930 million. I say no to this bloviated amount. Does the Major/City Council think we have no memories of the other levies that came before? We have to say NO sometimes. I would guess the North end gets the lion’s share and we and Beacon Hill get jack.
September 1, 2015 at 3:20 am #827333
texasMemberMapleSyrup said: “Knowing how Seattle made that mistake once already I can see where she’s coming from.”
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Are you referring to the Forward Thrust bond measures 1968/70? Because that’s a horse of a completely different color. Or something else I’m missing? The lost Forward Thrust federal funds were for a rapid transit system. Are there federal funds for rapid transit (subway or rail) in the Move Seattle levy proposal?
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Frankly, Move Seattle reads like it was put together by a high-priced consultant with many hours of touchy-feely seminars and lots of feel-good phrases. “Core Values” what’s that? A safe city, an interconnected city, a vibrant city, an affordable city, an innovative city.
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It’s very simple. We need a city with rapid transit. WE need one thing, and that’s a congestion-free city. No need to pretty it up. And the city of Seattle can’t provide it. The city of Seattle can do lots of fluffy things like paint crosswalks in vibrant colors and strive to be innovative, and prioritize safety, paint bike lanes, puts streets on diets, partner with a national bikeshare company to create installations throughout the city, loan bicycle helmets to citizens, and become a cheerleader for ‘alternate’ transportation.
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but sheesh, all these things are meaningless without rapid transit. Saying YES to Move Seattle and NO to ST3 is another transportation disaster IMO. First things first.
September 1, 2015 at 5:07 am #827334
maplesyrupParticipantMove Seattle and light rail are not mutually exclusive, and anyway whatever improvemets to come will involve layers of systems. I’m for light rail but even if/when it arrives the other forms of transportation aren’t going away.
September 1, 2015 at 3:02 pm #827335
JoBParticipantI don’t know what my vote will be on this measure, but whatever it will be it won’t be predicated on “what’s in it for us?”.
every time i leave West Seattle to do business in another area of town i am reminded how much the transportation system of the entire city matters to me.
September 1, 2015 at 3:38 pm #827336
skeeterParticipantTexas, I’m not convinced mass transit is the solution. Nor am I convinced lack of mass transit is the problem. We could (and probably eventually will) build rail lines here and there. And people will ride them. But the people riding them will be the people who are currently riding a bus. Almost no one will switch from their car to mass transit.
People say “we want mass transit options!” but studies have shown the only people who use mass transit are those with an economic incentive to do so. For example – to avoid paying $15 to park a car downtown. So long as roads are free to use and gasoline is under $6 per gallon and parking is provided by employers or free on streets, people will not go out of their way to use mass transit.
$9 per gallon gasoline and removal of all free parking are the only ways to get people out of cars.
September 1, 2015 at 4:11 pm #827337
GreystreetParticipantSkeeter, where is this “free street parking” you speak of? You must only be referring to WS because almost every street downtown is subject to the dreaded “Parking Stick” and $8.00 for two hours…I would completely stop driving to work if I could take a train or bus, but thank you metro cuts and because of the shift I work the 21 was turned into an express and I can no longer take the bus :-(
September 1, 2015 at 4:31 pm #827338
skeeterParticipantThe free parking is all over. Tukwila, Renton, Everett, Bell Square Mall, Microsoft campuses in Redmond. My office in Sodo. My wife’s office in Sodo.
Yes, downtown has expensive parking. But that is the exception. Most employees in the Puget Sound region (80%??) park for free either on city streets or in parking lots provided by their employer.
September 1, 2015 at 6:05 pm #827339
wakefloodParticipantSkeets, you’re half right about mode transfer of the avg. Jane/Joe. (Disclaimer: I’ve had to look at this data for work in the past so I’m speaking with some understanding but it’s an evolving dynamic to be sure.)
People don’t mode shift frequently but habits tend to change with significant changes of a person’s status quo. As folks mention, economic and work location issues, etc. But one that IS fairly high on the list is the opportunity to use a mode with a high degree of time certainty. Both with headway (predictable departure times) and with consistent travel time. Rail provides both of these at a significantly higher rate than buses and certainly cars (re: travel time).
Add onto those factors, the concept that people adapt and change modes at a slowish rate (they resist, then they try it when it’s forced on them, then they do it occasionally, then they do it frequently…etc. Critical mass takes a while.
And your point regarding free parking is noted as a factor in that decision as well. It’s not common in the downtown core, as you describe and it is also pretty common everywhere else. Boeing lots, North Seattle, Tukwilla, etc.
September 1, 2015 at 6:18 pm #827340
TanDLParticipantMy Opinion:
“Should West Seattle support the Move Seattle transportation levy?” NO
“Will Sound Transit 3 do more for West Seattle than Move Seattle?” MAYBE – WHO KNOWS?
“Would west Seattle be better off if Move Seattle fails and our new District 1 councilmember can fight for a better package in a new levy?” YES… ASSUMING THAT THE NEW PERSON HAS THE CHOPS TO FIGHT FOR WEST SEATTLE.
September 1, 2015 at 7:28 pm #827341
skeeterParticipantWake – maybe at our meetup in a couple weeks we can talk more about the data you’ve looked at in the course of your work.
I’ve done a (very) limited amount of research but I find transportation choices very interesting. I’d love to hear about your research.
Personally I’m delighted to see more bicycles in our cities. I realize bikes will never be a complete solution. Or anywhere even near a complete solution. But I’m convinced they will be a part of the solution.
Rasmussen did an excellent job promoting bike accessibility and bike safety in our city. He did several policy rides and took the time to understand the issues. We’ve made a lot of progress.
September 1, 2015 at 7:51 pm #827342
wakefloodParticipantModal choice is certainly interesting. I’m happy to see any non-SOV mode get made easier to use. I like to bike ride for pleasure but am one of those who won’t do it for work given my current equation but for those who can, it’s great.
Skeeter, if you want to find a good library of transpo data, the Texas Transpo Institute has a number (their analysis tends to favor road building and has been criticized for that.)
And if you use “What Affects Commute Mode Choice” as the search in Google, you’ll get several interesting reads from the last number of years.
September 1, 2015 at 8:05 pm #827343
wakefloodParticipantIf I was to summarize what some of the reports suggest (there’s some variability depending on who captured and analyzed the data – go figure ;-) .) you see that America’s still very SOV minded. But with that default in mind, what you usually find is that you only get Americans out of their SOV’s when you make it essentially unbearable to stay in one.
That happens most often in areas with very high density, limited and ridiculously congested roads, expensive Cost of Living, and some modal option. Which is to say, big cities. Nothing earth-shattering about that.
But what I’m mostly interested in is the following two things:
One – when does a city/region hit that tipping point? Can it be calculated – meaning measured and and accurately predicted? (The current answer depends on who you ask.)
And two – can that be modal shift be manipulated PURELY by psychological as opposed to physical factors? In other words, can we convince folks to change modes WITHOUT waiting until SOV’s simply aren’t a viable option? (The current answer to that is nobody’s tried hard enough to make a dent.) Witness ST’s commercials. Don’t think they moved the needle but maybe something can?
September 1, 2015 at 9:59 pm #827344
texasMemberSpeaking for myself only, I would definitely use rapid transit if it was reliable and frequent. Having lived in European cities with wonderful modes, I know rapid transit is superior to SOV in almost all ways. In one Germany city, the subway came every 7 minutes, and was faster than SOV in all cases, no question. Why would someone want to take a car if the subway or train is quicker and easier? (of course there are exceptions, such as transporting goods)
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And in the US, we can look to NYC, where it’s NOT a rite of passage to get a driver’s license.
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There’s no question a rapid transit system needs to be part of every urban infrastructure. Yes, we should have done it in 1968. It’s a failure of elected officials that we have no transportation system, to speak of, esp in light of increasing density.
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I don’t get the resistance to one.
September 1, 2015 at 10:50 pm #827345
wakefloodParticipantIt’s generally not a resistance to having/using one, texas, it’s a reluctance to accept that we’re 25yrs. behind schedule and anything we develop now will cost ALOT of $, take decades to complete, AND most importantly, won’t be perfect. We absolutely HATE spending money on something that isn’t exactly what “I” want. Witness our mass discomfort when Starbucks screws up our quadruple vente, half caf, half soy, half 2%, extra foam with room for a splash if I’m feeling it today. ;-)
September 2, 2015 at 6:46 am #827346
dcnParticipantIt’s not just about making SOV’s unbearable, but making mass transit viable. I think many Americans would use mass transit if they had that option. It’s a crime that we removed the extensive rail systems that cities, including Seattle, used to have.
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The current bus system in this city is only viable if you work downtown. And it’s not very reliable even for that. When I had jury duty downtown, I was happy to ride the bus for a week, even though it was frustrating to occasionally wait almost half an hour for a bus that was supposed to come every 10 minutes.
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But, I don’t work downtown and my choices are a 30-35 minute car ride, or 3 buses taking 2+ hours. I think many people are in the same situation that I’m in. Living closer to my work is not an option, due to the cost of living there.
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So, while this city is ridiculously congested, suffering through the daily traffic crawl in my car is still vastly superior to the alternative of spending 4 hours commuting each day.
September 2, 2015 at 2:40 pm #827347
JoBParticipantWhen we moved to Seattle we chose West Seattle because of it’s excellent bus service to downtown and hubby happily caught the bus every morning.
when his employment shifted to the Freemont area riding the bus was no longer feasible.. it simply took too long.
As it is his commute varies from 25 minutes to 2 hours. Add in the bus and it’s becomes impossible.
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