Go Hillary

[beachdrivegirl]

Just a tad bit more on SuperDelegates…. “In theory, they have the power to pick the nominee. But most will be reluctant to snub the party’s rank-and-file. Chris Van Hollen, a congressman from Maryland who has remained neutral because he is the chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, argues that superdelegates should not overturn the will of elected delegates unless “some totally unpredictable event”, like a scandal, renders the leading candidate unelectable. “

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[JoB]

Beachdrivegirl…

i show you respect.. please do the same for me.

“Obamas support is strongest among young middle class voters who have never participated in the elective system before.” So because younger individuals want to get rid of the Clinton/Bush Dynasty our votes shouldnt count.”

did i say any of that? I countered someone else’s presumption of the term “ruling elite” by pointing out that the oppressed (the poor) aren’t not Obama’s main constituency.. and that there might be other americans besides the ruling class and that constituency who count.

I won’t honor this by commenting further….

i don’t know who you are talking to, but it isn’t me.

And there is no Clinton/Bush dynasty…

nice talking point but it doesn’t exist.

as for the people’s interest… i would like to remind you that the reason Obama has not yet secured the nomination for the democratic party is that there are people who don’t believe he serves their interests.

I am one of those people. I may be the only one posting regularly here to defend my candidate… but i can tell you that actual election results show that i am not alone.

We are people too.

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[walfredo]

JoB- You are defending and supporting Hillary’s candidacy, despite acknowleding that there is no way for her candidacy to stay viable, outside of overwhelming support from the superdelegates. To me that is support of the superdelegate system…

If that is not a fair correlation, I’m not sure why it isn’t… I don’t support it. I would not be supporting Barack Obama right now if the only way to win was to destroy the party with a proxy fight at the convention and a superdelegate takeover of the election results. I wouldn’t do it. I would be getting behind the nominee of my party.

For some reason that notion doesn’t click for Hillary supporters. In fact, if I was a McCain supporter right now, I would donate to Hillary to try to bring this all the way to Denver…

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[JoB]

walfredo..

at what point did you hear me say that i thought Hillary’s candidacy was not viable?

I simply stated that as it now stands.. without Michigan and Florida… neither candidate has a good enough delegate count (of all kinds) to secure the nomination… nor does it seem likely at this point that one will.

Could that be because democrats are divided in their choice?

Yup. That could be just what that means … and exactly what i meant.

And aren’t we lucky, there is a mechanism for dealing with that.. it’s called superdelegates… they are the tie breakers…

it’s their job to look out for the good of the party when there is no overwhelming public support for one candidate.

And no matter how you play with numbers.. it’s still a tie because no one.. not Hillary… not Obama.. has enough delegates to change that.

I am going to go fix supper… maybe you should go do something constructive too?

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[JoB]

beachdrivegirl..

this is still a contest. it’s a little premature to be speaking of the will of the people when that is so unclear.

again.. i have to repeat.. hillary supporters are people.. and we count too.

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[villagegreen]

JoB, I don’t think you’re quite getting what walfredo is getting at – if you believe the numbers he spelled out (and they are pretty much irrefutable), the only way for Hillary to ‘win’ the election is coup by superdelegates. This may be the way the nomination process is set up to work, but there is no getting around the fact that it will create the APPEARANCE of stealing the nomination. Legal as it may be, it will no doubt create more vitriol towards Hillary and cause a rift in the Democratic party. How is that good for our chances in November?

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[walfredo]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9149.html

Another person with the ability to count pointing out that Hillary has no shot to win the election, and her only hope is “if Obama gets hit by a meteor!”

Good stuff… Still her husband decided today to comment that Mr. McCain is patriotic and loves his country, like my wife… Very subtle Bill. If SHE CAN’T HAVE IT, NO ONE CAN.

The continued endorsement of Senator McCain, and bashing of Obama is great for the Democrats chances in November…

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[charlabob]

OK, let me try one more tac(K/TIC): Edwards supporters are people too and we knew *when* to give up graciously.

And NO, JoB, I’m not accusing you of being ungracious; I’m flat-out stating that your candidate is a boor. It’s one thing to want to win–it’s another thing to be ridiculous. If she were not Bill Clinton’s wife, she’d be as believable as Harold Stassen by this time.

If Edwards had stayed in, and Elizabeth Edwards was the kind of person Bill Clinton is, I can only imagine her now — John Edwards is the only grown-up in the race. Hill and Obama are the same — only JE has new ideas;

There is NO excuse for Bill and Hillary Clinton to praise McCain. I haven’t seen any reasonable defense of it — even from Bill or Hillary. The more they do it, the more convinced I am that they’re part of the Lieberman wing of the Democratic Party. And that is not a good thing to be.

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[WSMom]

http://mediamatters.org/index

JoB does an amazing job of expressing her belief in Hillary Clinton. I admire JoB’s tenacity and intelligence. Reading the following report from mediamatters.org made me realize that JoB is on the mark when she states that sexism and media distortion of Hillary’s character are playing a role in this campaign.

“So that’s why NBC and MSNBC wanted Clinton’s schedules?

Summary: On Today, Tim Russert discussed the schedules from Sen. Hillary Clinton’s time as first lady and asserted: “Senator Clinton has made her experience such a part of this campaign, particularly her eight years as first lady. So this may be very rich in terms of exactly how did she spend her time, who did she meet with?” Russert added that “this, I think, today will be analyzed very closely by all of us at NBC News and media organizations across the country.” Indeed, while NBC and MSNBC journalists discussed more substantive issues related to her schedules, they also repeatedly discussed what the schedules say, or do not say, about where Hillary Clinton was during Monica Lewinsky’s encounters with President Clinton, in many cases teasing segments or leading them with that information.”

I am not trying to say that I want think Hillary should get the nomination if she doesn’t have the popular vote, but I think she deserves more respect than what she’s getting from MSNBC.

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[beachdrivegirl]

WSMom- Maybe I have missed something lately but I think that most everybodys problem with Hillary is with her me-me-me atttitude and not looking out for the good of the party. (Including her and her husband speaking more fondly of McCain then the other Democratic runner.) Furthermore, she hasn’t quite been 100% honest when coming to things like NAFTA.

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[denny]

I think we voters deserve more respect than we are getting from many in the media and fanatical boosters of candidates.

I couldn’t give a rip about a blue dress or a pastor’s sound bite.

Tell me how each candidate’s plans will affect me, our economy, my kid’s education and peace in the world.

Unfortunately, the campaign tactics of Hilary have fed this tear-each-other-apart mentality, as previous Clinton campaigns have shown to do.

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[WSMom]

Sure, I think it’s fine to challenge Hillary about NAFTA or health care or budget deficit reduction or even the fact that it’s apparently mathmatically impossible for her to win the nomination popular vote. But, I get offended when MSNBC requests the release of her schedule in order to hammer over and over how often she was in the house when Monica was providing favors. That has nothing to do with anything, but is a tantilizing bit of info to humiliate her with. I call that sexist! Plus, it makes me wonder how much of our perception of her “me-me-me attitude” is media distortion designed to keep the republican status quo. I still say “GO BARACK”, but I refuse to say “ANYONE BUT HILLARY”.

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[beachdrivegirl]

Denny-

http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/why-support-barack-obama-not-hillary-clinton-comparison-compare-records/-

here is a comparison of the two canidates. I apologize it is a comparison i found useful and is pro-obama. if someone else likes they are more than welcome to also post that here. THis site strictly goes through the issues.

My problem with Hillary and NAFTA is that she flat out lied to the people of Ohio. She had hosted an event that was pro-NAFTA just a few years before & then come election ’08 she changed her view for her own good. That is wrong.

Obama and race is in nearly every heading that there is about Obama these days and you know what he handled it like any true leader would. He grasped what people were saying, and held a conference to address the issue. If clinton and her campain really feel like the election is facing “sexism” maybe they should do the same. My opionion of her me-me-me attitude is the fact that she endorses McCain over Obama, will not let it be that is not going to be on the ballot come November, and consistnetly has wanted to change the rules of the election in favor of herself for the past 4 months. And infact, I get my news from the Daily Show/Colbert report which i think was mentioned earlier as having viewers with more correct answers on current issues affairs than Fox New viewers. .

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[JoB]

if one more person talks trash about hillary and then says something about her needing to go away for the good of the party i am likely to explode.

Challenge.. one more time…

all of you who really care about the good of the party need to step up and commit to getting the party’s nominee elected in the fall…. before you know who they are…

that is for the good of the party.

those of you who want to talk about the good of the party should be talking about your candidate .. and.. may the best man win.

that’s for the good of the party.

Did you learn nothing from the Rev. Wright videotape? The media often distorts the facts…

Where do you think you got your information about Hillary?

Who do you think is making news out of the “clinton campaign strategies” that you have all decided are dirty pool?

I haven’t heard Bill Clinton’s remark yet.. and i am not going to go looking for it because it wouldn’t matter what the context was… nobody would be willing to hear a thing about it.

So i can’t say anything about that one.

what would it matter if i did? i could go look it up and none of you would be the least bit interested in context…

it’s just another excuse to Hillary bash…

Do you think the press was being objective or just maybe.. like the bringing up monica one more time… they were out for a story..

and if they couldn’t find a real one they could find something to distort into a story… like they are doing right now with monica.

I say i have concerns about Obama and am flamed by more than one person at a time…

and accused of saying things i never came close to saying or intimating.

the worst things that have been said about Obama in this forum came directly from the keyboards of Obama supporters.. supposedly in defense of things that were never said.

but.. you call the Clintons names and that’s ok. You repeat every rumor and that’s ok.

it’s not ok.

For the good of the party it’s time you stopped Hillary hating and started asking yourself just who it is you expect to pick up the pieces and work to get Obama elected in the fall if he is the candidate.

Because that is what the Clintons do really well… in case none of you have noticed.

And it just might be possible that you will actually need them and their supporters come fall.

For the good of the party.. show a little respect to the party’s candidates… All of the party’s candidates.

For the good of the party stop whining about the nomination you are so sure will be stolen from you and work to get your candidate enough delegates to secure the nomination.

For the good of the party.. stop gloating when the press starts sandbagging democrats and let them know you don’t want to hear about monica… or any other trash they dig up…

The best thing i have heard said about Obama in this election came from the daily show.. John Stewart said that Obama’s speech actually talked to Americans about race as though they were grownups.

Are you conducting your personal campaign for Obama as though you are grownups?

If you are.. start thinking about the good of the party that Obama wants to represent. Stop all of this divisive b… and ask yourself what you want the democratic party to look like this fall.

or.. join the feeding frenzy… by into the republican strategy to divide us all from one another… and hand the election to the republicans in the fall.

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[Robindianne]

JoB,

I’m sorry I’ve let myself work, move, and lurk (all the while cheering you on silently but without posting my support). I haven’t added my htoughts on WSB because my reasons for supporting Hillary aren’t as clear cut as yours. They’re more gut-feeling ish. And I’m not articulate as you are so my rah rah and here here wouldn’t likely be helpful. However, I feel like your honest, straightforward comments about Hillary and Barack, the DNC, the primary/delagate process, and heck democracy are supported by some but blasted on WSB by many. So, I can’t let you stay hung out to dry so much anymore. So, when I agree but have nothing eloquent to say that will further the cause for honest open communication, I’ll just say “go JoB” or something OK?

You voice the good so so well JoB. You move me to say, while I have questions and concerns about Barack, I will support him and work for his election if he wins the nomination. I will work for whatever democrat wins the nomination of my party (but I still hope it’s Clinton).

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[charlabob]

Robindianne, as I’ve said to others, don’t sell yourself short. Don’t just be a cheerleader — express your gut-feelings and your ideas! There is no reason to think that won’t be as persuasive as anything or anyone else.

From now on, I’m going to stick to posting on the Barack and McCain forums; I’ll obviously be reading here, and chuckling and screaming and shaking my fist and …

There’s no point in saying this one more time, but I’m nothing if not intrepid so, I WILL WORK FOR AND VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE.

And, as the amazingly eloquent Dr. Cornell West says about Obama, “I will work for him and I will dance at his inaugural balls,” AND THE NEXT DAY I WILL BECOME HIS WORST CRITIC!

If Clinton is nominated, I will work for her, celebrate her election and (watch) her Inaugural balls. AND THE NEXT DAY I WILL BECOME HER WORST CRITIC.

No more NAFTA, no more DLC triangulation, no more selling out the working class and the poor in favor of corporatist elites, NOT THIS TIME!

We let Bill get by with a lot — he has charm, charisma — and he was very very convincing. Remember “Putting People First?” Remember “It’s the Economy, Stupid?” How did NAFTA help with those? How did jettisoning health care at the first whimper from the corporatists help with those?

This lib won’t fall for it again. She will watch and she will fight, and she also won’t fall for threats that criticism only “helps the other side.”

And, before you ask, I will have exactly the same reaction to Obama’s presidency. I may start out with a bit more optimism, but I’ll keep the same wary eyes wide open.

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[andrea]

Robindianne…Thank God (!!) is what I have to say after reading your post…that there is someone else out there like me! I’m right there with you and your armchair support of JoB and her awesome abiliity with the written word as well as being able to detail and describe so eloquently to us and everyone else out in WSB-land exactly why we LOVE and root for our candidate of choice in Ms. Hillary Rodham Clinton. I have on occassion weighed in my support for her and for JoB when she makes one of her well thought out points, but feel that I drowned out in the melee that follows as my knowledge of political stats, figures and background that many on here can spout at the drop of a hat is limited, and folks on here can be pretty intimidating. I too can’t quantify with numbers and newsmedia backing WHY I feel that Hillary is the best choice for president, I just know that I feel that way as fervently as any Obama supporter feels about him.

Thank you Robindianne, and THANK YOU JoB for saying so smartly what I know so many people who read this blog feel but don’t know how to say.

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[Anonymous]

Robindianne, I completely echo charlabob in saying jump in there. I have only a High School education and only occasionally know what I’m talking about. It’s still fun to be engaged in a community dialog and hear everyone’s opinions.

And Andrea, what on earth are you talking about. You are an exceptional writer and I personally enjoy your posts.

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[Anonymous]

JT – I will second that regarding andrea. Not only is she lovely in person, she is a beautiful writer!

JT – More than being a good writer yourself, you have great insight and wonderful curiosity. I enjoy your posts as much as anyones.

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[Anonymous]

NewResident, thank-you. The admiration is quite mutual.

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[Kayleigh]

Charla, do you ever wonder what would have happened had Edwards stayed in the race?

I am a huge Obama supporter now (his speech put me in awe of him.) But I wonder if Edwards could have gained enough momentum to stay above the fray. I still wonder why he dropped out so quickly, and who he will endorse, and what his tactical plan is. Is he angling/negotiating for the VP spot?

Jo, I luv ya but I’ve given up talking with you about Hillary because you (and apparently a lot of her supporters) seem to live in an alternate universe. (sorry if I was disrespectful–my ex-husband would say I’m a ball of stress with a brown ponytail.)

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[JoB]

I went to bed ready to stop posting..

this morning..after a good night’s sleep and encouragement.. i feel more optimistic.

Kayleigh.. i love your husband’s description of you.. he should compare notes with mine:)

The thing is that nobody has to be WRONG for someone else to be right.

If your passion for your candidate is only a hate for the other… it is difficult to build on the day after the election.

And as Charla pointed out.. there is a day after the election… and those days count.

Regardless of the fact that it cleared my brain last night long enough to post… anger is not the strongest emotion.. it is just the hottest… and sometimes the hardest to ignore.

When our anger is spent, unless you have used it constructively.. there is nothing left.

Constructive anger at Hillary led you to look for another candidate after yours left the race.

But hanging on to the anger doesn’t do anyone any good.

Kayleigh, you say i can see no wrong in Hillary.

You are wrong. When i post concerns about her.. they aren’t the concerns that are inflamming you at the time.. so you just brush them off. You aren’t looking for concerns.. you are looking for validation of the current media hype.

There is a lot to be concerned about with Hillary. Talk to me about your concerns and i am glad to listen. Repeat slanders.. and not so much.

There is also a lot to be concerned about with Obama as well. He may indeed end up being a great man… he certainly gave a great speech.

But if you think it is out of line for democrats to question his integrity, his honesty… his commitment to the democratic party… then what are you going to do in the fall when the real hate mongering starts and you have to counter it and work to win people over to your side?

It’s our job to question our candidates.. and their job to convince us.

Obama is a politician. To win in the fall, he will have to be a good politician.

I have to say.. what you would call the dirty tricks of his campaign if they came out of the Clinton campaign have let me know that he is a better campaigner than i thought.

But right now he is not running an inclusive campaign. And that’s not good when it comes time to ask those people you just wrote off to help you win.

If we would stop having the “not Hillary” discussion and talk about our candidates strengths and weaknesses as rational people.. you might be surprised to find that those in the Hillary camp want exactly what you want.. and they really admire the way that Obama talks about what they want…

they just don’t think he is the one to deliver it.

Right now, the only people Obama supporters are concerned with when you demand that hillary back out of the race because the will of the people has spoken…are the people supporting Obama. There is little or no interest in the good of the party…. except as the tool that can deliver your candidate….

But even in the democratic party.. there are about half of us whose voices can’t be heard over the righteous indignation that we would even talk or stand up for ourselves.

is this the America you want?

Because this is the America we have… On the daily show last night, Jon Stewart.. bless his wry little soul… showed a clip of Dick Cheney basically thumbing his nose at American opinions on the war.

When i see the rhetoric out of the Obama campaign towards Hillary and her supporters.. i see the current attitude towards those who don’t agree with you.. and i don’t feel moved towards Obama.

Why would i think that anyone who can shout so loudly when he thinks anyone has disrespected his race but actually encourage those who disrespect my sex will care about what i want in the coming years?

I find it prophetic that he honored his father in his book.. who basically wasn’t there.. but not the mother who raised him. He publicly talks about his grandmother as a racist.. yet she was where he went when he didn’t want to follow his mother abroad again… they had a don’t ask don’t tell attitude that suited his teenage ambitions. And his grandmother.. who overcame any racist fears she might have had to offer him a home is once again useful to him.

This is a real concern. And it is one shared by the largest voter block this fall.. middle aged women.

Tell me those kinds of concerns about Hillary and I will be eager to talk about them.

Both our candidates will emerge stronger for the process. And so will we.

We have to get over this divisiveness now because the biggest threat to us from the current regime isn’t John McCain.. it’s what will happen between now and the end of the year.

Misdirection is a powerful tool.. and the republicans are masters at using it.

They misdirected our attention away from a republican congress that didn’t let our last democratic president fulfill our shared dream and focused it instead on scandal and failed hopes.

It worked with Jimmy Carter and it worked with Bill Clinton.

And if they can get us divided and focused on bitterly battling our rival democrats… we might just not notice what else is happening.

There are far bigger fish to fry than Hillary hating.. and it is past time to pay attention to them.

A democratic president won’t be enough… no matter who that president is. We need to give that president the strong backing of public opinion and as large a democratic majority in congress as we can deliver if we want our vision to stand any chance at reality.

We need this vision to stand a chance at reality.

No matter which democratic candidate ends up in the White House.. they will have been tarred and feathered before they step through the door.. and the same media machine that is currently seeding rascism and sexism in this campaign will continue doing so..

unless we tell them to stop.. and keep telling them.

We are only now beginning to see the man behind the political mask of Barak Obama.

Some of what i see, i like. Some of what i see, i don’t.

But let’s let this race play itself out and get a good look at who both our candidates are…

let the anti-hillary mainstream media hype go long enough to take a good look at her…some of what i see i like, some of what i see i don’t.

News is what is presented here on WSB… that is why i have chosen to support this site so strongly… i think independent sites like this are the last hope for true journalism…

and we have been given the opportunity to be more than just a few selected letters to the editor… we are the editorials.

we need to take our own primaries back from the biased mainstream media… and to do that.. we have to stop parroting them.

In the end we all need to feel we were heard… only then can we have a candidate we can unite behind.

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[Anonymous]

JoB for President!

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[JoB]

This is the second time…

i appreciate the sentiment…

i will decline the nomination…

i will leave the country…

i will go live in a cave…

i am.. alas.. no politician.

Mom used to say.. if you can’t stand the heat in the kitchen.. get out… A kitchen i can handle…. any political organization is out!

I am communal not confrontational;)

I left the political system hillary embraced… over the same election:)

i volunteer now.. but only when i choose and for what i choose. it’s better that way..

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[JoB]

Second thoughts on Hillary…

no, gasp, i am not deserting my candidate.. but on reflection i will tell the Obama fans what bothers me about my own candidate.

The same thing that makes Hillary effective also worries me. She has become too adept at the confrontational aspects of leadership and too often forgets the communal. They say power corrupts.. and i believe it corrupts us all. When we play someone else’s game for too long.. it can be difficult to reconnect with our own.

the democratic women in the senate tell me i am wrong.. i hope they’re right.

I worry about her ability to manage her husband. It is obvious he is incapable of giving the same kind of support to her that she gave to him. I get that he sees himself supporting her when he defends her. But maybe she doesn’t need that kind of support… maybe she needs advice only when she asks for it. How she would keep her husband from reacting in her name is a concern.

i worry about her mistrust of the media. I understand fully where it came from… but to succeed she will need their cooperation. I don’t know if she can overcome that enough to charm them.

I don’t worry about whether she can get elected… she is a strong campaigner.. and stands for changes that America needs right now. She has certainly proven that she has a strong base of support.

I don’t worry about her ability to negotiate… she has shown herself a fierce negotiator.. and has learned to look for where she can give to get what she wants.

I don’t worry about her ethics.. in spite of the hype.. Hillary is as good as her word. If she tells you she will do something, she does it. … And she takes responsibility for her actions…

I don’t worry about her persistence… we need someone who will keep working even while her world is falling down around her.

I don’t worry about her “me me me” campaign.. that’s what a campaign is… and her voting record shows she cares deeply about those who are marginalized in our society.

In short.. i don’t worry about any of the things that the current hype tell me to worry about..

but i still have concerns.

Everyone should have concerns about their candidate.

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[Author]

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