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May 9, 2008 at 3:02 pm #618067
beachdrivegirlParticipantTHanks for that rs261. And on a different note it is a great day for the Obama campaign today ABC news is reporting that Obama is finally taking the lead in superdelegates!
May 9, 2008 at 3:07 pm #618068
charlabobParticipantThe Repug side — nothing unexpected or scary; what’s interesting is how much it looks, feels, and sounds like she who will not be named:
John Edwards — hasn’t endorsed anyone, but talked a lot about the candidates — not hard to tell what he thinks. Pretty obvious, it’s an Edwards family stand-off — the shields-mustard-foot family has been there :-)
Edwards on Today this morning:
May 9, 2008 at 3:47 pm #618069
JoBParticipantrs261..
Obama’s camp actually launched a pretty substantial campaign to have Obama supporters vote uncommitted..
and you will see from the results that it was more than moderately successful… successful enough that uncommitted votes in Michigan are acknowledged to be Obama votes.
In fact.. he was the only candidate who worked around the limitation on campaigning there by employing local organizers in an organized campaign to secure votes..
technically.. he didn’t campaign there… but his campaign staff did.
May 9, 2008 at 3:52 pm #618070
rs261MemberJust as Hillary had fund raisers in Florida before the election there…technically she didnt campaign…(oh, and I’m not saying Obama didnt do the same thing, I dont know about his fundraisers in Michigan or Florida)
I would say it was relatively successful for Obama. Just as it was for Hillary. However, I believe if his name was actually on the ticket, he would have garnered many more votes, even taking some from Hillary. When I was younger I’d vote for the name that I recognized on “less important” positions, now I just withold my vote.
May 9, 2008 at 3:53 pm #618071
beachdrivegirlParticipant“Emailed a few minutes ago from Bill Burton to reporters with the subject line, “Something to think about as returns come in from Michigan” …
TO: Interested Parties
FR: The Obama Campaign
RE: Michigan Democratic Presidential Primary
Because Michigan violated DNC rules by placing its Presidential Primary on January15th, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee ruled that the Michigan Democratic Party could not use the results of the January 15 Presidential Primary to allocate delegates to the 2008 Democratic National Convention. In other words, no delegates are at stake today in the Michigan Democratic Primary.
All of the Democratic presidential candidates publicly pledged not to campaign in Michigan, none have visited the state, opened offices, hired staff or communicated with voters through television, mail, phones or otherwise. In addition, four Democratic presidential candidates, Obama, Edwards, Richardson and Biden withdrew their names from the Primary ballot in order to avoid participating in the Michigan Primary. Clinton did not withdraw her name even though she publicly committed to not participate in the Primary. Clinton, Dodd, Gravel and Kucinich are the only candidates on the ballot today. The Obama Campaign is not participating in the Primary and has not instructed supporters in Michigan whether or how to vote.”
From the hotline. This is an email from Obamas supporters that he did not campaing nor did he camp organize any campaignign in Michingan. Michigan is being very misrepresented right now and this is one of many reasons why the delegates will not be seated as is.
May 9, 2008 at 3:55 pm #618072
JoBParticipantbeachdrivegirl..
just keep in mind that a superdelegate’s commitment may be public.. but it’s not binding.
You may be tickled when a superdelegate committed to Hillary changes to one committed to Obama…
but it’s kind of like marrying the man who cheated on his wife with you… now you are the wife… and who knows what will happen.
Some people’s commitments are apparently more serious than others…
The political wind is finally blowing Senator Obama’s way… but it is a fickle wind.
Who knows what will happen before the end of the primaries.
May 9, 2008 at 3:59 pm #618073
beachdrivegirlParticipantReality Check On Clinton’s Claims on Florida and Michigan Delegates
CLINTON RHETORIC: “Let’s talk about the agreement. The only agreement I entered into was not to campaign in Michigan and Florida. It had nothing to do with not seating the delegates. I think that’s an important distinction. I did not campaign… that’s not the case at all. I signed an agreement not to campaign in Michigan and Florida.”
REALITY: Clinton Said “It’s Clear” That The Michigan Primary Won’t “Count For Anything”
Clinton Said “It’s Clear” That The Michigan Primary Won’t Count For Anything. Clinton, on why she stayed on the ballot for the Michigan primary said, “Well, you know, people in Michigan are flat on their backs. They have the highest unemployment rate in America. They are now grappling finally with what they are going to do with the auto industry. 1 in 10 jobs in America is tied to the auto industry which is — the American auto industry, which as we know is centered in Michigan. You know, it’s clear this election they’re having isn’t going to count for anything. But I just personally didn’t want to set up a situation where the Republicans are going to be campaigning between now and whenever. And then after the nomination we have to go in and repair the damage and be ready to win Michigan in November 2008.” [NHPR Interview, 10/11/07]
Clinton Campaign Said She Was “Not Participating in the Michigan Primary.” Clinton spokesman Mo Elleithee said, “Clinton signed a pledge saying she will not campaign. She is not participating in the Michigan primary because she is not campaigning there. She is honoring the pledge.” [New Hampshire Union Leader, 10/11/07]
RHETORIC: “Now, the DNC made the determination that they would not seat the delegates, but I was not party to that”
REALITY: Clinton Top Delegate Adviser Voted To Strip Michigan And Florida Of Their Delegates
Clinton Top Delegate Adviser Harold Ickes Voted For Democratic Party Rules That Stripped Michigan And Florida Of Their Delegates. “Harold Ickes, a top adviser to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton’s campaign who voted for Democratic Party rules that stripped Michigan and Florida of their delegates, now is arguing against the very penalty he helped pass. In a conference call Saturday, the longtime Democratic Party member contended the DNC should reconsider its tough sanctions on the two states, which held early contests in violation of party rules. He said millions of voters in Michigan and Florida would be otherwise disenfranchised – before acknowledging moments later that he had favored the sanctions.” [AP, 2/17/08]
Fact checking Clinton on her stance on Michigan and Florida
May 9, 2008 at 4:00 pm #618074
beachdrivegirlParticipantMore good news from Edwards on the Today show:
May 9, 2008 at 4:03 pm #618075
JoBParticipantrs261…
yes, you are right. if his name had actually been on the ticket, it is likely he would have had more votes…
but he is the one who chose to withdraw his name from the ballot…
sometimes it really bites when you have to live with the results of your choices…. grandstanding can be politically painful:)
as for fundraising.. all the candidates continued to fundraise in both states…
but Obama’s campaign did more than that.. they organized a campaign to vote uncommitted… signaling an Obama vote without having his name on the ballot.
very clever. technically legal. but not exactly within the spirit of the agreements…
and it has come back to haunt him.
had he not done that, even i would have been receptive to an even split of delegates for Michigan…
Amazing as it may seem, for some Hillary supporters anyway.. winning is not the only thing.
i just think that if you choose to play the game.. you have to abide by the outcome.
Whatever….
it’s just political posturing signifying nothing much anyway:)
May 9, 2008 at 4:11 pm #618076
beachdrivegirlParticipant“but Obama’s campaign did more than that.. they organized a campaign to vote uncommitted… signaling an Obama vote without having his name on the ballot”
I am sorry but I have said this more then once that is just not true. Besides the fact that we have an email from the Obama camp stating that this is false, but also how would they do this and why? In January when the Michigan primary took place there was more then Obama runing against Clinton and Obama was not favored so an undecided vote was nto a vote for Obama or Edwards it was just a anybody but Clinton vote. As we can all see this nonsense of a lie that the Clinton campaing started once they realized they could win with Michigan is ridiculous and this is why the delegates will not be seated as is.
May 9, 2008 at 4:12 pm #618077
JoBParticipantbeachdrivegirl…
you are not seriously still going on about this are you?
do you really think it is right that the voices of those in michigan and florida should be stilled simply because the democratic party wanted to censure the state political associations?
what happened to your call for democracy? The people’s voices. and all of that?
howard dean says that it was never the intention of the democratic national party to deny the seating of delegates in Florida or Michigan.
They thought there would be an acknowledged nominee and that nominee would graciously seat the delegates from those two states.
they didn’t count on a closely contested nomination.
hillary is only stating the same reality Howard dean has been stating since April.
In politics there is often a wide gulf between the reality of negotiated agreements and the wording of those same agreements…
and i thought you were all for candidates exposing reality:)
or do those sentiments only apply when they can be used in favor of your candidate?
May 9, 2008 at 4:14 pm #618078
beachdrivegirlParticipantThe key to my sentence is as is. they will not seat the delegates as is in Michigan becuase Obama was not even on teh ballot and it is just not fair. As Obama put it, his daugther even figured that out.The delegates will be seated they will have a voice, but they will not be seated as is and Obama has said he will be okay with that.
May 9, 2008 at 4:36 pm #618079
beachdrivegirl2MemberSorry this is BDG but it is not showing my posts so i thought i would try it this way.
More good news from Edwards on the Today show:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24538058#24538058
“but Obama’s campaign did more than that.. they organized a campaign to vote uncommitted… signaling an Obama vote without having his name on the ballot”
I am sorry but I have said this more then once that is just not true. Besides the fact that we have an email from the Obama camp stating that this is false, but also how would they do this and why? In January when the Michigan primary took place there was more then Obama runing against Clinton and Obama was not favored so an undecided vote was nto a vote for Obama or Edwards it was just a anybody but Clinton vote. As we can all see this nonsense of a lie that the Clinton campaing started once they realized they could win with Michigan is ridiculous and this is why the delegates will not be seated as is.
The key to my sentence is as is. they will not seat the delegates as is in Michigan becuase Obama was not even on teh ballot and it is just not fair. As Obama put it, his daugther even figured that out.The delegates will be seated they will have a voice, but they will not be seated as is and Obama has said he will be okay with that.
May 9, 2008 at 5:32 pm #618080
JoBParticipantbeachdrivegirl…
if obama’s campaign says they didn’t do it..
it must not be true:)
but if Clinton’s campaign says they didn’t do it.
they’re lieing…
something tells me there is a problem with this kind of analysis..
and chances are that the biggest problem is believing political propaganda from either campaign in the first place…
as for the good news from the Edwards interview…
yes, it’s obvious that he thinks Obama would be a credible candidate.
it’s also obvious that he thinks clinton has a right to her candidacy
and that we ought to wait until all of the primaries have ended before calling a winner on this one.
There was no endorsement..
and there isn’t going to be one from John Edwards until there is a nominee…
Did you notice he included positive comments about John McCain in his interview?
He has something he wants from the eventual nominee and from the eventual president and he is not going to ruin his chances of getting that over this race.
it’s all political posturing … no matter how much you want to believe that this politician and this race is any different… it just isn’t so..
and becomes less so every day he gets closer to the nomination.
Believe me.. there will be a ton of negotiation before any nomination…
my guess is that you wouldn’t like any of the deals he has made to get his superdelegate endorsements if you knew about them..
and you will like the one’s he makes to secure the nomination even less.
But.. that’s politics for you.
May 13, 2008 at 7:07 pm #618081
walfredoMemberFeb 9
Louisiana 34-22
Nebraska 16-8
Washington 53-25
Virgin Islands 3-0
Feb 10
Maine 15-9
Feb 12
District of Columbia 12-3
Maryland 42-28
Virginia 54-29
Feb 19
Hawaii 14-6
Wisconsin 42-32
The 10 days that changed America. 122 net delegates in 10 days. 75% of the current lead in pledged delegates earned over 10 days.
Proud that Washington was able to play such a big part in picking the president!
May 13, 2008 at 7:16 pm #618082
walfredoMemberJoB- the fact that the Clinton camp is trying to receive gains in a state where she received 52% of the vote despite being the only person on the ballot other then Dennis Kucinich… It has been widely reported that in 2 states out of all contests who have had primaries, only 2 had less democratic turnout then republican. Which two? I’ll let you guess (it was the two that “didn’t count”)
Well, it shows that none of the reasonable arguments they wanted to make are possible anymore, and this thing really is over.
It’s pretty easy in retrospect to point to the 10 days in Febrauary that changed America. 10 days where her and her campaign were woefully unprepared to compete after Super Tuesday, and Obama and his team not only won, but dominated north, east, south, west, white, black, rich, poor.
It was probably the most significant 10 days I’ve ever witnessed in politics. The overmatched challenger, took the inevatible winner behind the woodshed and knocked the stuffing out of her.
BTW- Washington State, Wisconsin, and Virginia in Rasmussen polls today; all show Obama beating McCain and Clinton losing to McCain. Under any metric imaginable (evn by the Clintons) these states count!
May 13, 2008 at 7:27 pm #618083
JoBParticipantwalfredo…
you are nothing if not consistent…
you have consistently promoted the campaign.. not the candidate.
too boring to bother…
May 13, 2008 at 9:06 pm #618084
walfredoMemberIs it possible that you have so much disdain for the brilliant campaign run by Barack Obama, because the other candidate ran such a pitiful one?
I have heard countless times in the media that Hillary is a better candidate then her campaign. I don’t find that relevant.
The biggest enterprise that either candidate has ever undertook as chief manager was this campaign. What with hundreds of staff, $200+ million dollar budgets, thousands of volunteers, and the biggest stakes imaginable. One showed himself to be brilliantly adept at devising strategies, surrounding himself with great people, and carrying on to victory despite unbelievable odds against them. The other squandered every advantage and opportunity, let chaos rule, chose people who were loyal not competent, and failed to even come up with a competent plan, let alone execute it. Then whined about it every step of the way… Not to mention that one was fiscally responsible, while the other had to loan herself money, and is still $20 million in debt. That shows some real fiscal responsibility and competence to tackle the nations economy. Why the gas tax, that then taxes the oil companies, who then raise prices to pay for there new tax… that was her idea! Brilliant!
As far as the candidates themselves- one is a decent, thoughtful human being. One was against the war before he started running for president. One thinks that pandering to people on things like gas taxes, that will be paid by oil companies, with nothing to mandate them not just increasing the cost to consumers to cover there new tax burden is idiotic.
The other is Hillary Clinton… I don’t think you could have a bigger difference in character and candidate.
May 13, 2008 at 11:53 pm #618085
walfredoMemberNice to see Mrs. Clinton join Mr. Huckabee as the winner of the 2008 West Virginia primary.
It is also nice to know that West Virginia does not get to pick the president, and the other 50 some odd contests still count…
Shocking to see that 2/3 Clinton voters today in exit polls, said that race was an issue, and they would not support an African American in the general election! Looks like SNL may have been dead on this weekend…
May 14, 2008 at 3:17 am #618086
AnonymousInactiveThat SNL skit was hysterical. Well, maybe not to everyone.
http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/play.shtml?mea=250052
May 14, 2008 at 4:36 am #618087
JoBParticipantWalfredo…
LOL
of course West Virginia doesn’t count. You wouldn’t want any President those folks elected… they mostly aren’t college educated whites or blacks… they couldn’t possibly know what’s good for them…
you still don’t get it do you?
Those are the people who swung George into office.. you best hope they would vote democratic…
after the way you put them down. there is probably no reason for them to.. but all the same.
you don’t need all those old ladies or poor white folks do you ;->
then again.. maybe you do.
Still predictable. Still boring.
May 14, 2008 at 2:47 pm #618088
KayleighMemberJo, if poor white folks don’t vote for Obama because he is black, how is that Obama’s fault? How would you suggest he overcome that level of racism, beyond doing what he is desperately trying to do, which is rise above it?
Did you read the quote from a woman in WVA who said she thought Obama was a Muslim? When she was told he was a Christian, she said she didn’t believe him. WTF?
It’s time for Hillary’s supporters to get with the program and begin to support Obama in the general election. We Obama supporters (me included) who considered not voting for Hillary if she were to become the nominee were wrongheaded back then. Just as the “we’ll vote for McCain” contigent of the Hillary supporters is wrongheaded now.
We need *every* vote—every Republican swing vote, every Independent vote, every last Democratic vote. Because who knows what the right wing will throw at us in the coming months.
May 14, 2008 at 2:51 pm #618089
beachdrivegirlParticipantDespite Obama’s loss last night. He has picked up not 1 but four superdelegats today! At this rate the 30% of the remaining delegates needed to end the race is very near.
And I dont think Walfredo was saying that W.Virginia doesnt count I think he was saying that W.Virginia is not picking this years president for two reasons. A) There primary yesterday made no signiifcant difference in the race and Clinton still has a less than 1% chance of being the nominee and B) They said in the polls that race will be an issue and Obama will be our next President so no (Since they wont vote for him) they arent having a say in this years election.
May 14, 2008 at 3:04 pm #618090
beachdrivegirlParticipanthttp://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1770903,00.html?cnn=yes
A great article on why this “loss” does not effect the primary.
May 14, 2008 at 3:58 pm #618091
JoBParticipantKayleigh..
it might help if he actually campaigned in the state and tried to reverse people’s image of him…
because it isn’t just about being racist.
one miner was surprised to learn after the election that Senator Obama had actually passed legislation protecting miners in Illinois…
that might have mattered to the miners.
it isn’t just about being racist, it’s about being valued…
he doesn’t need them right now.. so he didn’t bother.
Who would you vote for under the circumstances?
BTW.. in case you didn’t know, Hillary did campaign there.. extensively.
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