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February 23, 2012 at 6:30 pm #602269
HMC RichParticipantAsk Gibson Guitar company.
This isn’t as bad as fast and furious but it shows how ridiculous our government can be.
February 23, 2012 at 6:45 pm #748615
dobroParticipantThis is a load of propaganda cr*p from the right wing CEO of the Gibson Co. They broke the laws regarding wood importing. There are plenty of articles explaining this issue (I’m not going to google them up but try the Acoustic Guitar magazine website if you care). It’s a complicated issue due to treaties and international agreements but the bottom line is Gibson broke the law (more than once) This shows nothing about the ridiculousness of government- it shows how a**hol*s like the CEO of Gibson will try to take advantage of Right wing anti-gov sentiment to make themselves look good while, in fact, they are breaking the law.
There are plenty of things to point to that show government in a bad light but this isn’t one of them.
February 23, 2012 at 7:48 pm #748616
DBPMemberThanks, Rich.
While this video is not exactly “propaganda cr*p” — as dobro so delicately puts it — it does have a clear tilt towards Gibson’s point of view.
On the other hand, I can sort of see Gibson’s point of view on this. But I guess what it comes down to is their claim of “due care.” Did they really take pains to ensure they weren’t breaking any laws? That’s something the video doesn’t get into, one way or the other.
Regardless of Gibson’s guilt or innocence, if the claim [by Rich] is that DOJ is not using its enforcement resources wisely, I would agree with that. Even if Gibson is in the wrong, it seems to me that this is not the best thing for DOJ to be spending time on.
February 23, 2012 at 8:33 pm #748617
JoBParticipantDBP
is it possible you might feel differently if you were an acoustic guitar maker who did diligently follow the law?
February 24, 2012 at 5:14 am #748618
HMC RichParticipantDobro, you must be an Acoustic and Fender guy. You poser.
February 24, 2012 at 8:33 am #748619
dobroParticipantyou nabbed me Rich. I’ll take a Tele over a Les Paul any day of the week :)
February 24, 2012 at 10:40 am #748620
chrismaParticipantThat’s poseur, with a ‘u’, Rich. I haven’t heard that term used since the late 80’s.
Gibson vs Fender – do we really have to choose? I have a Strat, an Explorer, and an SG. They’re all fine guitars, and they can all rock.
February 24, 2012 at 12:29 pm #748621
metrognomeParticipantit’s a sinister, subversive plot by Ovation to finally corner the market for acoustic guitars. Now, if they can do something about Martin …
February 25, 2012 at 5:10 am #748622
kootchmanMemberAs proud owner of a Flint Hill Special and a 32 RB Mastertone.. Gibson … this is pure bull —t … trying to get gun running off the fromt pages I am betting. Meanwhile..while they are targeting fret boards..did they notice that five states are suuig them by being overrun by illegals? … coursenot.. all those resonators with scrap steel from junked old Datsun hoods… next they must be labeled with the exact nuclear x-ray scam profile and gas spectrometer signature to insure they didn’t come from old Soviet Zils or smelted BTR .. weapons import violations y’ know. We actually pay people to do this and shut down small manufacturing plants…. must not be union labor..heck maybe they will go bankrupt and we can come up with an Obama stimulus plan… that Gibson won’t have to pay back. Kiss that TN vote goodbye!!! Hank..you were right! They ARE the enemy. A family owned, tradesman, labor intensive, manufacturing company…. shutdown by the Feds. This is the definition of our recovery plan?
February 25, 2012 at 5:50 am #748623
waterworldParticipantWhat are you talking about Kootch? Just because you are hyperventilating about “illegals” and “gun running” doesn’t mean anyone else is. Gibson has been under investigation for Lacey Act violations since 2009, and most of what the CEO is saying is, not surprisingly, carefully tailored to lead people to believe that the investigation is unfounded and Gibson is being unfairly targeted. Read that actual case affidavits: there’s certainly good cause to believe that Gibson was importing, first, illegally harvested ebony from Madagascar, and then illegally exported rosewood from India. False documentation on the shipments made it harder, but not impossible, to detect.
You’d think from what the CEO says that Lacy Act regulations are some kind of threat to commerce. But it’s been the law for something like a hundred years, none of the other American guitar makers had any trouble understanding the regulations. They walked away from the Madagascar ebony ages ago.
There have certainly been some nutty prosecutions under the Lacey Act, but I see no real issue with the government insisting that American companies respect restrictions on importing endangered species or illegally harvested wood from other countries.
February 25, 2012 at 7:33 am #748624
HMC RichParticipantThe question is…has the Lacey Act been amended too much? Interference by the Federal Government has been growing yearly in a variety of areas.
I can’t wait for the new HHS job postings about monitoring sack lunches brought by Kindergartners. YOU WILL ASSIMILATE. i can just see the FBI teams going to homes because Mom and Dad used Peanut Butter instead of Sunflower Seed Butter. Ma’am, Is that Meat and not Tofu? Your under arrest for child neglect and malnutrition.
The Federal Government, State, and Local governments have their place. BUT the State telling a mother and a father what their kid can pack to school and eat at school is ridiculous. http://www.carolinajournal.com/exclusives/display_exclusive.html?id=8762
Government is getting too involved in our lives. If Obamacare survives the Supreme Court ruling, I gotta believe as they say … YOU AIN’T SEEN NOTHING YET.
Don’t believe me, how about this Contraception mandate. Forcing religious institutions to offer something that they are against. King Barry knows best.
If this wasn’t so dangerous for the future it would be laughable. But it is not.
February 25, 2012 at 7:48 am #748625
JanSParticipantRich..what does that have to do with Gibson guitars?
February 25, 2012 at 7:56 am #748626
metrognomeParticipantJanS — it makes perfect sense; if the government forces everyone to use contraception, pretty soon there won’t be anyone left to play Gibson guitars and the Commies will have won despite the fact that we banned peanuts on airplanes. And don’t call me Shirley!
February 25, 2012 at 8:43 am #748627
metrognomeParticipantoh, and speaking of conservatives and contraception, a combination I wholeheartedly support …
“Since President Obama moved to require Catholic hospitals and universities to offer contraceptive health benefits to employees, Republicans have rushed to accuse the administration of an unprecedented attack on religious freedoms….
“No one has been more forceful than former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, who has accused Obama of ‘a direct violation of the First Amendment.’
“Yet Republican lawmakers and governors, including Huckabee, backed similar mandates years before the current partisan firestorm.
“Twenty-two states, including Washington, have laws or regulations that resemble, at least in part, the Obama administration’s original rule. More than one-third had GOP support, a review of state records shows.
“In six states, including Arkansas, those contraceptive mandates were signed by GOP governors, including Huckabee.”
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2017527777_contraceptives17.html
Now, what was that you were saying??? Someone is playing a Gibson guitar so loudly, I must have misunderstood …
February 27, 2012 at 1:49 pm #748628
kootchmanMemberIt was the labor content… but as I say…and American, crafted product, with a skilled work force … laid idle by a Justice Department… abuse. Now … let’s see them go after ANOTHER Obama “success”story… A123 Systems… one of his “battery buddies” who took over 320 million in stimulus dollars… ljust aid off 125 production workers, the Obama Battery Buddies executives all took big pay hikes from the stimulus dollars…who wants to bet they “pull the plug” on this unit and we get left holding more of the bag… man it sure pays to be an Obama bundler. How about DOJ trying to get some of that back? Instead of “fretting” over a fret board laminate product worth peanuts? Must be a slow day at the Obama DOJ…. it’s not like there is anything else to recover like 300 Billion from FHA fraud…. just for starters..or Solyndra…or Fisker… or …SolarOne
February 27, 2012 at 2:00 pm #748629
kootchmanMemberNo one mandated religious institutions who raised conscientous objections….. see ya gotta read the nuances…
“Twenty-two states, including Washington, have laws or regulations that resemble, at least in part,
Did ya see that… “at least in part” from your very own URL link., not one state has yet stated any religious institution must abandon the tenets of its faith… in fact 10 have now filed suit..against the law… Ya still don’t get it… most conservatives support contraception.. we object to… you guessed… trampling over constitutional protections granted to religious freedom and expression. The sheep have bleeted again. On to the Supreme Court we go again… the institutions of religion are protected from the state…. not the other way around.
February 27, 2012 at 2:12 pm #748630
kootchmanMemberGibson bty imported nothing…. they purchased their exotic woods from a wholesale broker/importer…. who is responsible for “reasonable” care. There was no intent by Gibson to commit such a heinous fraud. The DOJ can catch rosewood fret boards but not 20 million illegals? Here’s the funny part… this is why liberals are so FOS… they pee and cry about cheap foreign labor… and then, when the shaving and planing of the fret boards is given to American craftsman and workers on American machines in American plants..they pitty patty around the issue..their Messiah and his Apostles can do no wrong. What hypocrites. And you can read the retraction and backtracking as quoted by NPR…. by Andrea Johnson…
This REQUIRED armed SWAT agents? It was that serious? Geez what is that crazy little thing … that little clause about what ya have to do before ya seize property … due process?
“We’re in this really incredible situation. We have been implicated in wrongdoing and we haven’t been charged with anything,
August 6, 2012 at 10:51 pm #748631
WorldCitizenParticipantAugust 7, 2012 at 1:32 am #748632
oddrealityParticipantBeing a Fender girl myself I just want to say…keep the government out of my uterus!
I’m just glad the DOJ can look at more than one thing at a time.
Oh yeah…SOLYNDRA!!!!!
http://cleantechnica.com/2011/09/15/solyndra-advanced-by-bush-for-2-years-solyndra-timeline/
Too bad Obama thought that the Bush admin knew what it was doing and went with it…
August 7, 2012 at 3:55 am #748633
dobroParticipantIn other words, Gibson broke the law, they know they broke the law, they got caught, they made a deal and paid a bunch of money cuz they knew if they went to trial they’d lose and figured it was cheaper to pay the fines.
So there was a law, Gibson broke it, law enforcement officers enforced the law, the justice system worked as it often does, saving us the cost of a trial by making a deal with the scofflaws.
Or, in rightwing speak, Obummer’s federal thugs shut down American gitarmaker in a conspiracy to institute gubmint takeover of music bizness!!
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