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September 26, 2008 at 5:22 pm #588191
CountingCoupMemberAs the debate grows nearer (tonight at 6pm) I have the premonition that our expectations could be waylaid by the moderators.
After watching the democratic debates, I believe the debate was completely controled and dependent of the moderator gotcha type questions stemmed around political agendas. Example: flagpin questions
Based on the type of questions and the time and amount of rebuttals that were allowed, this debate could be channeled to favor either of the candidates positions.
It’s unfortunate that the moderators setting up the questions and managing the debate often believe they are the stars of these debates instead of the canidates.
My only hope is that the moderators open up the floor with good questions that allow the candidates to respond with deep answers and allow them to debate each other with rebuttals. We Americans deserve that…
With that said, “Let The Games Begin” :-)
September 26, 2008 at 5:41 pm #641247
KenParticipantIt seems the WSJ has a time machine and it looks like McCadaver won the debate. Check out this screenshot.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/images/26Sep_Friday_WSJ.JPG
Some web site coder is gonna get fired by Murdoch for jumping the gun I suspect.
September 26, 2008 at 6:07 pm #641248
beachdrivegirlParticipantSeptember 26, 2008 at 8:41 pm #641249
CountingCoupMemberWow, amazing. I guess in this case even one of the canidates wants to make this Presidential Debate a sitcom reality show…
If McCain is willing to make himself look like fool before the moderators could give him a pass, I guess I shouldn’t worry about the tone, candor, and legitimacy of the questions for this evening.
Obama wins by default! (the art of winning a debate without debating)
September 26, 2008 at 10:51 pm #641250
mellaw6565MemberIn my civics and government classes, I ask my students to focus on several things when watching a debate, including:
– topics discussed
– Demeanor/Dress/Debate Style
– sufficient support for arguments/positions
– What’s NOT said or discussed
– moderator’s tone and questions – is there a bias one way or another? Did they spoonfeed or ask the tough questions? Did they pursue or allow clarifications?
There are so many ways that a candidate can LOSE or WIN a debate – it’s like a scorecard at the end of the evening.
September 26, 2008 at 11:03 pm #641251
CountingCoupMemberThats a great breakdown mellaw6565. It would be interesting to see your take on tonights debate.
September 26, 2008 at 11:07 pm #641252
mellaw6565MemberI’m going to be showing it to my kids next week in US History class – It will be interesting to see what they say as well. I find more and more that the kids call it right every time – they’re not as cynical as adults and read body language better I think.
September 26, 2008 at 11:08 pm #641253
mellaw6565MemberCC – I teach debate as well, and it’s pretty obvious already who the better debater is – but it’s not everything as my checklist suggests.
September 26, 2008 at 11:29 pm #641254
CountingCoupMemberMellaw6565,
I just want to applaud you and your class on engaging the subject of debate. It’s good to know that kids today are getting an education to simply look beyond the surface of issues and events.
I know the debate classes I took over 35 years ago certainly shaped my own current views to understand there are many layers of fact, fiction, and a multitude of opinions behind the most simple of issues. I also to this day thank my teacher in facilitating our debate classes.
Cheers to you and your students, they definitely are our future…
September 26, 2008 at 11:35 pm #641255
mellaw6565MemberI work with offenders and drop-out prevention, and yes, they are our future too. Many of them just need someone to believe in them and treat them with respect – they appreciate it when I tell them that their opinions are worthy, even when someone disagrees.
September 26, 2008 at 11:36 pm #641256
mellaw6565MemberOh and thanks CC for the kudos:)
September 26, 2008 at 11:38 pm #641257
ZenguyParticipantAn estimated 100,000,000 will watch the debate tonight and that is heartening to me. Hopefully this will counteract the 30 second commercials that so many seem to base their decisions on.
September 26, 2008 at 11:39 pm #641258
CountingCoupMemberOf course, in some respects counter-culture can see directly through the fluff of pop culture.
Along with respect and support, opening the door of opportunity to those who know little about them can be a challenge also.
September 27, 2008 at 12:07 am #641259
mellaw6565MemberYes CC – so true! Which is why it is even more important for them to understand their government and their rights (and responsibilities as a fellow citizen).
September 27, 2008 at 12:08 am #641260
mellaw6565MemberZen – That’s sad! Only 100,000 out of 300 million! Oh I forgot – it’s Friday night. They must be at the bars!
September 27, 2008 at 2:38 am #641261
CountingCoupMemberI believe without a doubt (based on facts that I understand) that Obama answers are far more accurate and truer to the facts as they are stated and recorded.
That said, unfortunately there is an aspect of debate which is manipulation, and McCain is an expert in this area.
Think of Obama’s statements with the McCain debate tactics.
If Obama stated prior to making a point; “this is an area I know alot about”, or “McCain doesn’t seem to understand etc…” he would have been perceived of having a stronger debate.
Debates are about how we interpret what he have heard and/or seen. I guess it’s your own style of interpretation of what you hear to the that filled with rhetoric.
IMO I know Obama had the facts, and McCain was grasping with attacks and mis-information in almost every topic, but he did it with conviction and bolster he may have bluffed those unwilling to check his facts…
All I can say, is check McCain’s true record.
September 27, 2008 at 2:50 am #641262
addParticipantCC – you touched on the point that bothered me the most. I actually thought it was a good debate, but it really bugged me that McCain said “Sen Obama doesn’t understand that…” about 12 times. I was really wishing Obama would have, at one point, said something like, “actually, I do understand, quite clearly. I have a different idea about how to handle…”.
September 27, 2008 at 3:01 am #641263
CountingCoupMemberExactly add, Obama’s strength at bringing people together is his weakness in distiguishing the difference between two points of an issue.
You can only hope that Obama gets a little coaching from Joe Biden on how to sharpen his blade. Obama cannot depend on the news media to be the attack dog against the McCain mis-facts…
A majority of Americans will not fact check McCain against what he stated.
September 27, 2008 at 3:10 am #641264
CountingCoupMemberObama cannot depend on Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow and the Jones Network/Air America (radio) to ensure the fact checks against McCain happen.
He cannot depend on his ads, he needs to call McCain out for his lies and distortion of the fact including his supposed experience.
(example: McCain’s visits to Iran were in the green zone with exception to a market walk where he wore a bullet proof vest and with military attack helicopters hovering overhead in a military cleared zone prior to the photo op.
That is not visiting true Iraq ~ Please….
September 27, 2008 at 3:55 am #641265
ZenguyParticipantMellaw that was 100 million, a third of the country. More than will probably vote.
September 27, 2008 at 4:20 am #641266
CountingCoupMemberRegardless of the banter after the debates, I just wanted to say that I believed Jim Leyher did a good job of allowing the canidates to engage and he didn’t try to steal the show…
He also injected the ecomomic questions and allowed the canidates to move it toward the intended goal of foreign affairs.
Good on Jim for that IMO…
My hope can be the rest of the debates are run as well as this one was…
September 27, 2008 at 4:59 am #641267
HunterGParticipantObama has to stop saying “John is absolutely right.”
My lord.
There is being diplomatic, but come on this is ridiculous.
September 27, 2008 at 5:18 am #641268
addParticipantHunterG, I agree. At first he was being what would be considererd “normal” and respectful – agreeing on principle and then adding his nuances. But of course it will be spin (and already has been – apparently the McCain campaign already has an ad out with clips from the debate). But then I realized that McCain didn’t make eye contact when shaking hands with Obama either before or after the debate, so he really doesn’t deserve that kind of respect if he isn’t willing to offer it up either
September 27, 2008 at 5:22 am #641269
CountingCoupMemberAgreed, his character for being a peace-maker, a person that seeks a partisan resolution doesn’t fair well in a debate.
I am also reflecting on his debates with Senator Clinton…
I wish he would attack a little more, especially against McCain who is a Prime target of flip flopping and policies like military aggression rather than diplomacy or lobbyist finacial support rather than social reform on issues (health, infrastructure, education, energy), Obama counter punches when he could easily attack with documented facts.
That said, I think his fact were more truthful and his demeaner more presidental.
September 27, 2008 at 5:41 am #641270
ellenaterMemberI agree. Obama came out of the gate strong and then went back to the stable. SO sorry for the bad analogy. But McCain was pretty transparent in his attacks, as well as condescending.
I was disappointed that foreign relations were discussed more than issues at home. I did feel Obama was stronger on those that were discussed. McCain didn’t even mention helping people or healthcare, except to say that people want choices about their doctors. No, people want choices about GETTING to go to the doctor!
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