Is Seattle Racist???

[TheHouse]

Job, in response to your question of whether I watched the entire video….YES, I did.

I would also tell you that a 4 year old is not the product of society. A 4 year old is a product of their home environment. You are looking things through the eyes of an adult, not a 4 year old.

If Mom, Dad, Brother, Sister and people around said child foster a positive environment then the child will emulate it. Start cursing around a 4 year old that has never heard that language and then tell me what he says at school the next day.

Try to complicate the issue by throwing in hundreds of years of mistakes, but they have ZERO impact on a 4 year old today if they are raised in a loving, nurturing and positive environment.

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[JoB]

beachdrivegirl…

if you are talking about self induced emotional stress, you are correct.

however, you body will react with physiological stress to any situation it finds life threatening by sending hormones into your bloodstream to initiate flight.

You will react emotionally to that surge of hormones because you are not accustomed to them and because your body believes you to be in danger.

How you choose to act in view of that reaction is certainly up to you.

you can elevate that emotional reaction or choose to dampen it..

but either way you will still experience stress.

it’s a basic human physiological reaction that you have no control over.. it’s called the fight or flight response.

look it up.

action/reaction

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[JoB]

TheHouse…

Very few 4 year olds are kept isolated in their homes.

they go out in public with their parents where they experience societal influences.

tv comes into their home and they experience more societal influences.

yes, children are the product of their environments..

but even at 4 their environment contains a lot more than just their parents.

if you don’t believe me.. have a chat with a 4 year old.. you will really wonder where some of their questions came from.

isn’t there a whole column in Reader’s Digest called Kid’s say the d…dest thing?

i wonder where they got the idea for that column?

hmmmmm

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[TheHouse]

Job, you’re 100% wrong on this.

Please let me explain that this conversation is not really about stress, but how stress is 100% controllable. Your examples of car accidents, gun to your head, etc. are perfect examples of “typical stressful” situations, but if you (a) don’t care about your situation or (b) have been trained how to properly react or (c) have been trained how to remain calm, they aren’t necessarily stressful.

The car hitting you causes physical harm possibly, the gunman may cause physical harm, but stress is all psychological.

I should clarify that when I speak of stress, I am referring to mental stress. Physical stress most certainly exists (ie..a bone breaking, an earthquake, etc).

I do like how you contradict yourself by stating “How you choose to act in view of that reaction is certainly up to you” an then 3 lines later you state “it’s a basic human physiological reaction that you have no control over”.

Obviously, you’re stressed.

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[TheHouse]

I speak with many 4 year olds on this blog.

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[JoB]

TheHouse..

sorry house.. i am not wrong about stress. You are.

the mechanisms of stress are something i am somewhat an expert in.. as the misfiring of that mechanism causes me a great deal of distress.

when you speak of stress.. you are really speaking of distress.. the emotional reaction to stress.

yes, you can mediate that response if you are calm or if you know what the appropriate response is to the trigger that caused the stress…

i do that all of the time. it’s how i survive.

but no matter how calm i am, it doesn’t ever eliminate the misfiring.. and thus the stress.

i am not even going to respond to the notion of not caring what the outcome of the stress is.. because we all care… survival mechanisms being what they are…

the fact that on some level we all care whether we survive is causes the emotional response to stress that triggers distress.

you can mediate your distress.. by emotionally and physiologically (through stress reducing exercises) calming both your mind and your body… but you can’t eliminate the stress response itself.

it’s hardwired.

if i were the object of racism.. i could control my reaction to racism.. but i couldn’t eliminate racism by controlling my reaction.

that analogy isn’t something you can look up.

but, you certainly can get better educated about the body’s response to stress and the human reaction of distress.. and the huge difference between the two.

all you have to do is enter “fight or flight response” in a search engine and you will get more information than you want to process.

that might cause you some distress:)

I am going to eliminate the stress of this conversation by taking myself off to bed. believe it or not.. 11 PM is past my bedtime… and no matter how charming the company… my physical distress is often directly proportional to the lateness of my bedtime the night before…

night night.

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[JoB]

BTW theHouse…

you are confusing 4 year old children with adults…

try talking to a real 4 year old. it can be very illuminating.

it’s amazing what children know that you didn’t teach them.

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[Ken]

Jeez House you stiil in here?

That robe and hood need washing occasionally. You have made your point and it is on top of that hood you keep pretending we can’t see.

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[Anonymous]

House – I feel the same way at times.

Just as I’m sure people feel that way about me at times.

JoB – Before you start dismissing the book I mentioned, why don’t you read it? Then we can talk about it.

Always interesting to me how some people are so quick to pass judgment on someone, and yet have never read anything by that person.

And, yes, I’ve read Obama. I’m still Republican and still not voting for Obama.

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[TheHouse]

You must be referring to my Kittel and Tefillin since i was born a Jew.

Surely you’re not inferring the Triple K Club? I don’t think they’d take to kindly to my kind.

As Daddy used to say, better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

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[soclwrkrinmotn]

“As Daddy used to say, better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”

Did you listen to your father?

House, do NOT patronize me. I have been quite respectful to you. (I’m ticked now, and wondering why I even bother responding to you.) If you want to win someone to your point of view, disrespect isn’t the way to do it. And again, your attitude proves my point. Obviously, to you, I am not “capable” of understanding your argument.

Secondly, it is all interconnected. It isn’t a separate issue…they all play upon each other. Don’t rank oppressions.

Thirdly, my mention of sexuality and gender was my description of myself. No more, no less. Did it scare you?

Is racism stress? Sure it is, why don’t you read the 2010 Healthy People report by the Office of Disease Prevention and Health Promotion and see what the collective impact is upon people of color. If you were redlined, stopped for DWB, trailed in stores…you might be a little stressed, too, House.

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[Kayleigh]

NewRes, black people were killed as late as the 1960s, not “hundreds” of years ago. Do you know who Medger Evers was? Do you even know what the KKK is, and that it still exists?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/21/AR2008062101471_pf.html

Interesting how you are singing another tune. First it was that you and your boyfriend are repeated and tragic victims of racism against whites. Now, there is simply no racism at all, according to you. Which is it?

I think the entire Republican party was out smoking behind the lunchroom during high school civics class.

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[soclwrkrinmotn]

Thanks, Kayleigh. I was too mad to answer that. Glad you did. I should say this to add upon it…racism = prejudice + power. In other words, there is no such thing as “reverse racism.” There is individual prejudice directed at Euro-Americans, yes. But it is not racism.

Check this out: this writer is very good at laying it down.

http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac/emc598ge/Unpacking.html

It’s about white privelge…and she makes a good parallel with male privilege.

(Which, for the first time in my life is hitting me in the face. Holy crap. The change in treatment being perceived as male vs. female…)

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[soclwrkrinmotn]

Here’s her second version…I have not seen this before!

http://www.cs.earlham.edu/~hyrax/personal/files/student_res/straightprivilege.htm

But then, none of the isms are at all related. Oh, no…me oh my. I’ve been schooled…I forgot.

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[Kayleigh]

Very cool links, soc.

Growing up, I always hated my skin because I have that very very fair Scandinavian skin that really doesn’t tan. I can look awfully pale ’cause my hair and eyes are dark. Not a pretty contrast if I am sick, exhausted, etc.

But one day it hit me really hard: if I inherited the dark skin of one side of my family, I might have experienced levels of racism and discrimination that I didn’t (given the way I look otherwise, which has been called Italian, Spanish, etc.) Just because my genes lined up randomly, I was given privileges I only vaguely understand.

I no longer curse my skin and I will never get a tatto. It’s hard to explain. :-(

I realize the above sounds kinda corny. But it was a powerful moment for me.

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[Anonymous]

I have realized that it is close to impossible to carry a conversation on this forum (at least in regards to delicate topics)

It is basically a majority opinion, and any other alternative is not tolerated. This has been noted by others who usually just read the forum.

For liberals, who are supposed to embody tolerance, acceptance and open-mindness, there sure isn’t a lot of that on this forum.

If there is a point of view expressed that differs from yours (collective “yours”), you respond with anger (“I’m too angry to respond the that”). No one has been disrespectful (except a reference to House being a member to the KKK).

And I will never understand why a link shared that is from either a “liberal” website or “liberal” author is the final word, however if I share a “conservative” viewpoint it is shot down.

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[soclwrkrinmotn]

NR: I am going to be little softer spoken on this than I thought I would be…time and a hectic day helps.

No. It is not a self-fulling prophecy. I don’t expect to be treated disrespectfully, and I have a strong enough sense of self-respect to fight it.

Here’s an example of a common occurance: I meet someone, talk with them a while, and they ask my name. I tell them, and they ask, “oh, French?” I will explain that, no, it’s Spanish, and I am Chicano…and I either become the spokesperson for everything Chicano (or Mexican, and my family has been in the US since the US invasion of Mexico in 1848, so that is difficult to do) OR I get to hear every stereotype in the world, or become less educated, less intelligent, less… Does it happen all the time? No. It happens enough.

One thing interesting is the relationship that lighter skinned people of color have with white privilege. Do I have it? Yes, most of the time. I “pass and am passed over” as a friend (identifies herself as “hapa”) of mine states. I found it scary to see that my father, who never stole a thing, would be followed in stores…and he was frequently challenged as my father. (Brown men don’t have green-eyed beige children, I guess. There’s a story there, and ask me nicely, buy me a beer, and I will tell you.)

Honestly, that’s part of the reason I made the career choices I did…I can speak for the communities I serve, and in fact, it’s my job to do so.

(I might seem mild-mannered, but rage is my fuel…rage is the lever than can move the world, if channeled properly.

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[soclwrkrinmotn]

As for anger, NR, you’ve expressed it too. I think it’s justified. I was angry at your response, but does that mean I am angry at you? No. I was frustrated with the “self-fulling prophecy” bit, which sounds a lot like the “blame the victim” mentality…which does anger me. But again, I think the anger is justified, and I wasn’t being rude…just mad.

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[Anonymous]

I appreciate your responding, soc.

I certainly did not mean to make anyone angry. That is never my intention on this forum (although people seem to think it is). You’re right that I, too, have expressed anger.

In my defense (which I understand really has nothing to do with the current discussion), but I think I get angry when my thoughts, my links and my experiences are just dismissed because I am a.) a Republican, b.) white, c.) female, d.) uneducated, e.) inexperienced, etc..

You’re personal experiences are your own and I would never challenge what you share that you have been through.

I was only trying to present another logic to the debate. That logic being that if you carry doubt about another person’s ability to accept you, sure enough, they may sense that and *not* let you down in that regard.

Meaning, my argument has really nothing to do with your own self-esteem or self-worth, but more to do with your feelings and uncertainty of others and whether they accept you as a person. And furthermore, as a person of intelligence and self respect.

I would love to buy you a beer and discuss your experiences. I find it enlightening to share stories with others, especially people not just like ourselves!

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[JoB]

NewResident…

What makes you assume i haven’t read anything he wrote.. or that book for that matter?

I looked him up because i look up every author i read.. and every author who is referred to here…both liberal and conservative.

It reminded me who he is and what he wrote.. some of which i have read and some of which i haven’t.

i didn’t read his entire book on race.. but i did read his introduction, some relevant chapters and his summation…

More than that.. i looked very closely at his sources.

you should too.

BTW.. it is very instructive to read the Wikipedia pages on authors from both sides of the aisle. it really gives you an insight into the differences in their body of work, their biases and their academic credentials. It helps to know who they work for and what kind of work they have done with their lives so you have a basis from which to evaluate their opinions.

I tend to place more weight on the opinions of those who have tried to make a difference in the areas they report on… you know, have gotten their hands dirty trying to create solutions…

but then, i have a definite bias towards those with more experience than opinion.

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[JoB]

New resident

“In my defense (which I understand really has nothing to do with the current discussion), but I think I get angry when my thoughts, my links and my experiences are just dismissed because I am a.) a Republican, b.) white, c.) female, d.) uneducated, e.) inexperienced, etc..”

Obviously, you do have some concept what it feels like to be on the receiving end of discrimination. You feel discriminated against here..

Why is it such a big leap from the discrimination you feel you face to the discrimination others do?

i never dismiss you NewResident. I wouldn’t talk with you if i did.

i do dismiss some of your ideas tho.. but not because of any of the reasons you listed…

when i challenge what you say, it’s because i challenge the ideas you present…

and i really think that if you though more about them.. and read a bit more of the opposing literature.. you might challenge some of those ideas too.

i don’t think you’ll become a democrat…

just a much better republican.

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[JanS]

interesting reading in this thread…here’s a link that was just shared with me…one man’s way of making a small difference…and 6% of proceeds go to a different charity every month..

wear the world on your heart :)

http://www.joytshirt.com/

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[JoB]

JanS..

that’s cool…

too bad i dont’ wear t-shirts

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[soclwrkrinmotn]

“Meaning, my argument has really nothing to do with your own self-esteem or self-worth, but more to do with your feelings and uncertainty of others and whether they accept you as a person. And furthermore, as a person of intelligence and self respect.”

That’s how structural racism works. One views yourself as less than, because media, culture, legal, social realms identify one that way…it is an upward battle. You think you are disregarded because you are female? That’s how sexism works. Uneducated? That’s how classism works. It’s the same idea. The structural “isms” work that way.

One can be uneducated and sound in the motherwit…education doesn’t mean college. It is listening and learning, and that’s what this forum is about from both sides.

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[JanS]

socl…well said…

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[Author]

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