Good neighbors?

[JoB]

Diane,

no trespassing signs aren’t posted to keep out dogs:)

and fences can.. as you suggest.. be see-through while still keeping children and pets from crossing into neighbors yards without invitation.

Speaking as a gardener.. children can wreak as much if not more havoc with landscaping than pets.. especially if they decide your property is a convenient shortcut to someplace they want to go.

but you have a good point about neighborhood dogs and cats allowed to run free…

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[Diane]

re: no trespassing signs aren’t posted to keep out dogs:)

I was only referring to the fence comment

but now that your mention it; if I coulda, I woulda

obviously I’m not a big fan of dogs

I love and enjoy children, especially the littlest ones

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[Robindianne]

Welcome David. Best of luck to you and please know that some people are neighborly (and will talk kindly to you, get to know you, etc. And others will seek out things to complain about, assume the role of tree hugger against big bad corporate. Not saying anone here is specifically saying that, but I’m so surprised at how many posters here are being intolerant.

Take care and I hope things go better for you with your new home. At least it’s not a McMansion right? lol

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[Anonymous]

DavidF – Unfortunately, you didn’t seem to find the best manners on this forum, either.

That tends to happen at times and it is truly unfortunate.

I welcome you too. I hope that you truly enjoy you new home and can look beyond any negativity that comes your way. Because, really, if you’re happy, no one can take that away from you (and happy people tend to be nicer people).

Welcome and enjoy!

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[WSB]

Mike D, thanks for jumping into this thread with the perspective of someone who has firsthand knowledge. I drove through the area myself a little earlier today while working on a story, curious to see for myself if there was some other angle to this situation, and didn’t see anything that looked glaringly out of place; I noticed a two-unit townhouse building close to 26th/Brandon near the Longfellow Creek trail entrance, with greenbelt on one side and a sf house on the other; there are some other townhouses nearby, in what look like larger clusters. (BTW congrats on Delridge being named one of the top neighborhoods again by Seattle Magazine – not online yet but I read it somewhere.) — TR

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[DavidF]

Thank you all for your responses, and insights. I thought that this subject would provoke great responses, and it did. I strongly believe in property rights, tolerance of others, and speaking my truth. Having a good discussion, even though we may not agree, is a wonderful thing, as long as it does not turn into a negative attack on one’s views. If anyone has a question about what I have done, or will continue to do, please ask me that question, before you make a judgement, or a sweeping generalization.

Thanks to the Webmaster for making this forum available.

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[TammiWS]

Thanks DavidF – Welcome and thanks for providing your insights and a tempered view to this topic.

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[JoB]

what she said..

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[JanS]

yep…I’ll second what she said….

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[HP]

wow I for one dont understand attacking the developers when if they dont the next guy will, anyone with a problem should be contacting those who run our city and get these zoning laws passed. that is the issue not someone who takes advantage of a law or rezoning … Im just sayin if it wasnt david it would be someone else and that someone else would probably not be living there as well and making positive influences on our community.

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[ellenater]

David,

“Don’t let the bastards get you down”

-John Wayne

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[Jeannie]

David, you seem like an intelligent man, so please don’t be such a crybaby. I can only hope your “townhomes” are built with an aesthetic that fits the area, rather than being a blight. Not all townhomes are ugly – just most of them. So I guess it’s unfair for me to pass judgment without seeing them. I hope everyone is following the City Council proceedings about townhomes.

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[Zenguy]

I am truely saddened by some of the comments in this thread…wow!

I am a third generation West Seattleite and have seen tons of change in my forty+ years, some good some not. It is important to realize that while some of my neighbors houses are not my taste they are their taste and that all that diversity mixed together is why I like living here. I could live on the plateau where all the houses have guidelines to build by, but ewe.

I understand that many people do not want change and I lament the loss of many places and things (Benbow I miss you) in West Seattle. Change will continue to happen, people will continue to move here and we have to house them somewhere. If townhomes upset you in their current state contact your local government and lobby them for changes.

Be good to your neighbors and they will be good to you.

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[cjboffoli]

This is one of the more interesting forum threads I have read in a while. As much as I’m disappointed by the rudeness, negativity and lack of respect demonstrated towards a neighbor, I think this topic raises so many fascinating issues that go much deeper than some of what is immediately obvious.

It calls to mind an article that I recently read in The Stranger about a large, expensive Modern house in a neighborhood on Queen Anne that drew the ire of some very vocal neighbors, some of whom went on the record in the press saying that the design reminded them of “an abortion clinic.” Apparently, most of the houses in that neighborhood are restored Craftsman style houses and many of the neighbors thought the Modern house was at best an eyesore and at worst an affront to neighborhood context. I was torn reading the article because I’m very much a fan of Modern architecture and I believe in the integrity of personal property rights, but on the other hand I can understand the value of architectural context in the built environment and I realize that so much around us is incredibly ugly because everyone does their own thing without thought.

Then again, whereas I do not support the notion of developers who build things that are out of scale for a neighborhood, part of me also questions the rigidity of people who only think residential structures in Seattle can be built in the Craftsman style just because that was the prevailing style of architecture during which most of Seattle’s neighborhoods were built. Europe seems to do much better at integrating bold, forward-looking architecture among neighboring structures that are from completely different centuries. It seems counter-intuitive to me that countries with Socialist backgrounds can be more progressive in this area than the US, one of the most traditionally innovative countries in the history of the world. But maybe Europeans’ willingness to take chances comes as a reaction to the blandness of Socialism whereas our woes emanate from our prevailing middle class desires for sameness and familiarity. It is surprising that nature so favors the notion of variety and diversity but that people often so strongly reject it.

I live in a Modern house in an emerging neighborhood near the Junction that is completely different from just about every structure around mine, including many poorly kept old houses and many new ones that were built purely for profit and that lack any architectural integrity. They are all a sort of watered down, faux-Craftsman style that predominates in Seattle townhouse design these days. I bought my house principally because it was Modern and different but I know there are people on my block who think the house that I find elegant is a monstrosity. They just don’t get it. And paradoxically, they don’t seem to criticize the ones around us that are falling down, but the Modern ones they just don’t understand. It would be easy just to dismiss this as a matter of differing tastes but I think there is just so much more to it, including the natural anxiety that comes with change but also with people of different cultural, economic and educational backgrounds living in close proximity to each other.

I’ve worked hard for my education, the life I have and the house I own. But not ten feet away from me are rental tenants who physically have to work much harder than I do to make a living and who have a completely different lifestyle than mine. They’ve made it clear that they resent people like me and what my introduction to the neighborhood means for them and for the future of West Seattle. But I understand how much of that resentment stems from things that have nothing to do with me and is more about their own frustrations with their own lives and anxiety about their futures. And I show them the courtesy of not resenting them for all of the tax dollars they eat up by having the police at their house every other day for their latest drama. Don’t we both have a right to live in the neighborhood in the manner we prefer? Would it be right for them to hang a sign that says “greed” outside of my house simply because I have more education and money than they do and have nicer things?

In response to the sentiment expressed in DavidF’s original question, I’ll leave you with something valuable that my grandmother told me once. She said there are four kinds of people in this world: 1. People who like you for the wrong reasons, 2. People who like you for the right reasons, 3. People who dislike you for the wrong reasons, and 4. People who dislike you for the right reasons. And it is really only the last group of people that you ever have to worry about.

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[ellenater]

Where are the grandmother’s when we need them?!

…that’s good stuff.

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[JoB]

cjboffoli…

your thoughtful post made me think.. in fact, i left the blog for a while to ponder after reading it.

the neighborhood i live in.. at the south end of california.. is a mix of homes… with modern structures and modern remodels on the rise.

i enjoy both.. but one of the neighbors i met while walking my pooches wasn’t so appreciative. The new houses on her block have caused her taxes to go up enough that she is forced to put her house on the market and move.

At the time i thought that a little exaggerated until i stopped by a house for sale in the neighborhood that will have to be pretty much gutted to become livable again.. and found it listed for over 600 thousand because it sits on a double lot… with only a postage stamp view unless you build 3 stories. Someone will likely buy the lot and do just that.. build two 3 story modern homes…

maybe she wasn’t exaggerating so much after all.

I want to think it is possible for all of us to have our dream without taking away the dreams of others… but sometimes their hold on their dream is so fragile that all it takes is upgrading the neighborhood to deprive them.

Bleeding heart though i am.. i don’t think that is reason enough to try to prevent someone from buying that property and building those two modern structures…

but i do think we need to put more effort into figuring out how to keep those people who were in the neighborhood before us in their homes if that is what they want.. or subsidize them when they are forced to move.

it is all well and good to talk about the profit they will make when they sell their home… but even if they haven’t mortgaged their equity to stay… the profit from their modest home.. though substantial.. is not likely to be enough to allow them to buy elsewhere.

and those rentals where the police visit regularly..

they are likely owned by those sitting on dilapidated houses waiting for the value of the land to exceed their expectations…

A good business move.. but not really healthy for the neighborhood.

There are no easy answers, are there?

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[Zenguy]

Your neighbor should check out being exempted from property taxes. My grandmother had a huge reduction in income last year and now does not pay property taxes and got a refund for the last year as well. Of course it all depends on your income, not on the value of your property though…she is in a condo on Alki. Hope this helps.

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[Zenguy]

Reverse mortgages are something I would check out as well, they are not a scam and do not have to be paid back until after the home owner is out of the home.

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[JoB]

this was a younger woman (50+) who said she had inherited her house from her parents and who worked.

The house she said was hers has already sold and it is currently being remodeled… the new owners are raising the roof.. literally. I would too if i had bought that house. they should have a good view.

i know there are tax exempt deferral programs and tax abatement programs for the elderly or those whose income is under the poverty level… but i don’t know of much for those who are now the working poor.

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[Zenguy]

I do not either, I guess I assumed they had been there a while and might have been elderly…never hurts to offer information.

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[cjboffoli]

JoB: Interesting. You’ve illuminated yet ANOTHER facet of what is behind the anger and anxiety. I’ve seen the same thing happen in my hometown of Charleston, SC. Until the 70’s it was a sleepy little town with good proximity to the ocean and old houses that had been in families for ages. Then in the 80’s people with lots of money moved south and bought up old properties and restored them. That raised the tax rates for families who had been there for years. Soon they could no longer afford to live there and moved away. As word spread of this charming seaside city, tourists came and many of the small, independently owned shops could no longer compete against the onslaught of chain stores. It is progress and Capitalism but there is something lost that can perhaps never be regained. Charleston sparkles like it never has before and is much more vibrant and populated than ever. But it is also less authentic. I suppose it is optimistic to think that over time it will come back around and the chain stores will be replaced with one-off stores again as people’s tastes evolve. But the original families will be gone forever as will some other intangibles.

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[Zenguy]

The homogenization of the world…shudder.

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[JoB]

zenguy…

the good news is that some people are figuring out that homogenization isn’t what it is cracked up to be… while we get more and more homogenization in the junction:(

soon we will need to find an anti-junction where all those great shops that boosted the demographics that attracted the big boxes can go…

time to start scouting now!

what will hit those businesses just hits people first… too many people are marginalized out of their own neighborhoods … at best left to find someplace less desirable to live.

I really can’t blame them for getting angry about it.

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[Zenguy]

I agree, I see it on the horizon, Petsmart, Whole Foods and the rest. Fortunately I think we realize the value (here in Seattle) of the independants, the market is a great example. Maybe we should do like Bainbridge and ban them.

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[JoB]

zenguy..

it’s too late..

and i think it’s stretching it to believe that the city of seattle would bad big boxes in west seattle…

there are some disadvantages to being in Seattle city limits.. and that is one of them.

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