Does West Seattle want Ted Tripp?

[WSratsinacage]

Feel the same way you do Zenguy. Tripp’s stance, in or out of context, is not defendable. IMO anyone that hits children of any age has anger issues, is mentally unstable, and/or enjoys inflicting pain. It just breaks my heart that kids are being abused every second of the day somewhere in the US/world. How can someone give birth to the most precious thing in the world and then cause it pain at 1 year or 16 years!? So foreign. I can’t see where the parent really loves the child if they hit. I think this is one of the underlying issues for why we such a screwed up society now. Kids are so innocent and have no options. They can’t get out of the situation very easily. Adults are really taking advantage of them, taking advantage of a captive audience. I hate the terms discipline and punish.

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[Ken]

Those of you who are interested in some in depth research into religious justified and promoted child abuse may find this link interesting. However it may be too graphic for survivors of child abuse. I found it disturbing and memorable but it gave me a perspective on my own brushes with excessive punishment and a mentally disturbed parent. By comparison, my experiences were trivial and only distantly related to religion. ( I had an arm broken in the heat of corporal punishment when a switch broke and a hastily improvised substitute turned out to be dangerous.)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/13/16852/9879

Parts 2 and 3 are quite long and cover the larger network of institutional abuse including boot camps, alternative biblical “treatment” facilities and the “Joel’s Army” and “Teen Challenge” organizations.

http://dogemperor.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/8/14/114136/732/786/371430

http://dogemperor.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/8/15/17423/4121/326/371898

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[WSratsinacage]

I wonder if parents feel bad after they hit or do worse damage? I would feel so guilty!

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[Zenguy]

My abuse was not religous based. My father was and still is a very insecure guy that tried to make himself feel superior by beating up women and little kids…disgusting.

As a matter of fact, my brother confronted him about the abuse a couple of weeks ago and he claimed he could not remember any of the situations, so I am pretty sure there is no guilt there.

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[JoB]

I think this is one of those subjects that are difficult to understand.

Many times the abuser is simply doing what they know.. what they think is right…

how they can be so unenlightened i don’t know.

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[JoB]

wsratsinacage

could you sign on to the google group and share with us what you found out about the local news stations so that we won’t be duplicating efforts..

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[Concernedparent]

Please do sign up to the google group and let us know about the news. Are they just covering his visit in general? Doing a story on this new (?) trend of born again christians using corporal punishment?

JoB, have you signed up for the google group? I think I sent you an invitation but you haven’t accepted. I made the group public so anyone can come and be a member, I think there is a link on the right side that says join group.

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[JoB]

concerned parent…

i haven’t yet.. i will go there now.

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[WSratsinacage]

I’ll sign up too.

I bet Tripp and Mars are banking on the theory that any publicity is good publicity.. let us hope that in this case, it backfires on them.

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[AnneT]

Good grief, get over this liberal “spanking is bad”. Kids need direction…actually kids need Attention, not playstations and wishy-washy parents that raise “brats”. Most kids are out of control, throwing temper tantrums turning in to rude teenagers that have no maners or respect.

We were all better off 50 years ago, when you got a swat on your butt, to pay attention. Get over it already.

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[Zenguy]

Child abuse is not a religous issue and using religion to disguise spanking is disgusting. If you think that hitting children is a good idea you should not have children.

I agree children need attention, but there are so many other ways to teach a child. Spanking just shows you are not educated enough about the alternatives or that you get off on hitting kids. Sick either way.

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[JoB]

Anne T

I agree that a single swat on the diapered bottom with an open hand often gets attention in the middle of a toddler’s tantrum the way nothing else can.

Other than that, a whistle is every bit as effective to focus a child’s attention or their name spoken in the “that is enough” tone.

But one swat is a world away from spanking and spanking is a world away from the kinds of brutality visited on children in the name of discipline.

I was disciplined with the leather end of a belt doubled over for strength, the buckle end of a belt (a western trophy buckle), a wooden spoon, a fly swatter, a ping pong paddle, a long wooden paddle with holes in it so it could move faster, a switch, a branch, a riding whip and anything else that happened to be at hand.

I was enclosed in a small dark space to wait for punishment, tied to my bed, and tied up in dishtowels used as a straight jacket.

if my mom disciplined me.. there were bruises but that was all that happened.

if my stepdad disciplined me.. there were bruises but only in places that wouldn’t show with my clothes on… and that was not the end.

spanking my little girls bottom was sexually exciting for him… and i won’t provide details for that.

i got off easy. Other than the time my collar bone was broken trying to get off the bed and into a corner.. i never suffered broken bones or knife wounds or burns or….. as a result of my discipline. I personally know kids who did.

it’s too easy to write this kind of thing off as liberal hysteria… and to assume that only a certain kind of person perpetrates this kind of misery on children.

The period of my life where we lived with my stepfather,(over 10 years), I was raised in the heart of one of the most respected families in my small town, among loving neighbors who noted my bruises and counseled me to love my parents in spite of their failings.

my mother cried the entire time she did her duty and beat me when i was a small child. By the time i was a preteen, she had become calloused to her own feelings and had begun to vent her frustration at my inability to achieve what she considered perfect behavior. by the time i was a teen, disciplining me was her primary vent for all of the frustrations in her life.. it took little more than what she considered an attitude for her to discipline me… after all i was responsible for the fact that she was once again raising children alone.. i had talked about my sexual abuse and had ended her marriage.

I was the only target of real abuse in my family, my sister and brothers mostly escaped with only the more severe end of spanking… although there were a couple of notable exceptions.

When i was growing up, this kind of abuse was not limited to our homes. Children were routinely physically punished in their home, in their schools and in their churches.

I admit, this was 40 to 50 years ago… but the laws we have now that limit the physical punishment of children are a direct result of the abuse I and many others endured.

If my personal story about this kind of abuse makes you uncomfortable, I am sorry.

But i really was one of the lucky ones. In spite of the abuse i had a roof over my head, i was fed and clothed and my mother cared enough to see that i got the best education she could provide… and she never withdrew any of those privileges in the name of discipline. And.. most important of all, i got some affection as well as discipline.

From the outside, the home i grew up in looked like the ideal loving environment for a child.

it wasn’t.. and i carried the scars from that home into some pretty devastating mistakes in my late teens that caused me to seek a better way to live. I was lucky and found the help i needed to rebuild my life… and to come to terms with my childhood before my parents died.

Many children aren’t nearly so lucky… and carry those scars and worse with them throughout their lives.

I know there are those who think even a single swat goes too far, (if the swat is hard enough to lift a child off the floor.. or to knock them over.. i would have to agree) but a single swat is not the issue here.

The issue is someone who is teaching parents to physically discipline infants.. and to regularly and systematically physically discipline your children from the time they are infants until they leave your home.

The issue is someone who is teaching that the only way to enforce discipline in your home is by using physical discipline..

The issue is someone who is teaching parents how to physically discipline outside the confines of the law in such a way that they minimize the possibility of finding themselves prosecuted by laws designed to protect their children.

Saving one child from that kind of abuse is worth the embarrassment i may feel exposing my private history… and the time invested in organizing a small protest.

This isn’t about religion or a parent’s rights, it’s about a child’s safety and wellbeing.

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[andrea]

JoB your early life story is painful and tragic to hear, and I am sorry you endured what you did. Your ability however to convey to those of us out here so lyrically the time, place, and emotions of these complicated issues astounds me every time. Should you write a novel if you haven’t already. You have certainly lived a multitude of lifetimes and your perserverance is impressive.

And to those of you who also noted your painful childhood experiences with abuse, I am sorry. It is comforting to know though that each of you have made concerted efforts to make sure the cycle does not continue. My commendations to all…

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[JoB]

Something was brought up off forum that i would like to respond to publicly since i think it is germane.

it has been suggested that this protest is more anti-christian than anti-child abuse.

I cannot speak for any other person who is involved, but i can speak for myself.

I am not anti-christian. My belief system is solidly christian. And i will go a step further.. and say that yes, i accept Jesus as my personal savior. That’s more than i would normally disclose.. but i want to be sure that those who think my involvement anti-christian understand that i know what being christian means.

The question i would ask all Christians who support Ted Tripp’s teachings is.. where do you find any biblical support for his teachings in anything Jesus said?

if you have accepted Jesus as your personal savior, then doesn’t the New Testament trump the old?

It is the Old Testament that is quoted in defense of this practice… not the new.

I have asked myself what Jesus would do in this situation.. a situation that could appear to be an incursion on church policy… and i have come to the conclusion that following his example protesting against wrongdoing.. even in the church… is the most Christian thing i can do.

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[JoB]

Andea..

i have already ritually burned two attempts at the great american novel.

i am working on my third.. a bit more autobiographical… although i admit i haven’t been working on it as much as posting here lately:)

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[Anonymous]

AnneT, my brain says don’t respond to ignorance, but my stomach is churning at your words. If you had read any of this thread you would know, no one is talking about a swat. There are many of us reliving the anguish of abuse by beatings. Your dismissive rant adds to that pain.

Besides liberal NOT being a bad word, you would also see this is not a political thread and the posters here do not share a single affiliation. Conservative, liberal, atheist, christian, are all being represented. The topic is abuse, and in this case it’s being taught and perpetuated under the guise of following the christian bible.

If you would like to begin a discussion on child rearing or the horrors of today’s youth, please open a thread and do so. In the mean time, I respectfully request you stop minimizing and ridiculing what so many of us endured.

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[JoB]

I am personally inviting anyone who wants to talk about this to join me at C&P coffee tomorrow morning at 10 AM to discuss what can be done about this local event and what else could be done to publicize our concerns about this issue.

For those who don’t know me.. i promise to put a sign on the table so you can find me…

WSB forum members…

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[acemotel]

Job, thank you for sharing your moving and heartbreaking story. IT’s painful to contemplate, and anyone who endorses the crime of child abuse must be stopped. Couching it in biblical reference is reprehensible.

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[JoB]

There is a local print reporter who is looking for several local christian parents who are willing to be interviewed and identified and who feel strongly about this issue.. either pro or con.

if you email me at joanne@brayden.org, i will gladly forward your email to her.

Yes, i will respect the privacy of anyone who emails me… and I will forward those who feel Ted Tripp is right without either private or public comment.

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[Traci]

Oh Mars Hill, always giving me a reason not to come back after that first

awkward

crowded

dimly lit

fundamentalist

self righteous

rock band?

and so obviously trying to snag the twentysomethings

evening we shared together.

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[JoB]

I can’t comment on the church since i haven’t attended…

the experience your poem invokes is not one i would cherish… but everyone’s experience is unique.

I want to be clear that for me, this is not about Mars Hill church,

but about Ted Tripp and his message about parenting.

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[JoB]

For those who want to know…

We leafleted the cars parked on public streets around Mars Hill Church this morning.

Security appeared to be waiting for us as they appeared at the church doors when i appeared with leaflets and immediately came outside.

without looking at the leaflet he was handed, a security guard asked my husband what our beef was with a parenting symposium.

I had my own personal security guard shadowing me, though he did back off when I stopped to speak with local residents.. who were not supportive of this program.

My guess is that we distributed about 150 leaftlets.. and before we left, those near the church were gone.

This leaflet was exceedingly non-confrontational… but the one i will be putting together later in the day will be more direct… tho still based on alternative information for parents.

anyone who would like a copy of that flier to distribute anywhere in the city is welcome to email me at joanne@brayden.org and i will be glad to send them the word file.

when that word file is posted on the local google group set up for this issue, i will post the url here so that you can access it without emailing me.

Hitting children is not ok.. nor are the tactics of intimidation towards those who would offer other alternatives.

and yes Wes, i did read enough of the book to turn my stomach.. and the admonition to physically discipline your children is spread throughout the book.

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[JoB]

Excerpts from Tedd Tripp’s book, ‘Shepherding a Child’s Heart’

from those i chose for the leaflet..

and i purposefully chose those that were less inflammatory…

“Acquaint your children with authority and submission when they are infants. This training starts the day you bring them home from the hospital. p.134

“…, you may never conclude that his problems are simply a lack of maturity. …they are not reflective of immaturity but of the idolatry of your child’s heart.” p.24

“The child is a sinner. There are things within the heart of the sweetest little baby that, allowed to blossom and grow to fruition, will bring about eventual destruction. …. Proverbs 22:15 says, ‘Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him.’ P. 105

“I have witnessed spankings administered through a double layer of diapers to a child who never stopped moving long enough to know he had been spanked. The spanking was ineffective because the parents never made the rod felt.” p.114

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[Oliver]

We live down the street from Mars Hill. My husband was handed one of the fliers opposing the “parenting” seminar while he was watering the flowers with our three year old son this morning. I still cannot get over the shock of what is being advocated so close to my home.

Could someone please post the who/what/when/where details of any protest planned in WS?

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[Nico]

Hi Oliver and family,

I was so happy to see your post.

Here are some links you should look at:

A concerned citizen’s group who did the flier distribution:

http://groups.google.com/group/stopthehitting

My blog, “Tripp to Mars” (Intended to inform parents of the dangers of Tripp. I add articles daily):

http://tripptomars.blogspot.com/

If you have sympathetic friends and neighbors, please tell them.

Thanks.

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[Author]

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