Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Ban Bikes from Lincoln Park Beach trail
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March 23, 2009 at 6:24 am #590188
LesParticipantI live near the walk that goes from Colman Pool to Beach drive and walk from one end to the other five days a week for exercise. This walk is used by walkers, joggers, and couples of all ages; parents with small children, moms pushing strollers, and people walking dogs on leash.
In the past six months I have seen numerous bikers on English Racer type bikes zoom up the dead end from Beach drive and ride as fast as they can to the Colman Park side of the park and then up to Fauntleroy. I have seen at least a dozen near-accidents and several crashes.
There are bike lanes all along Alki and other designated areas for bikers; why do they need to add this short detour and endanger everyone on two legs?
Example: As I’m walking I see a family walking towards me from the other end of the beach. Dad is pushing a baby stroller and mom is holding the hand of a child about three. They are walking towards the pool end of the beach when the child breaks free of mom’s hand to walk over and pick up a shell from the ground in the middle of the trail, about a foot away.
At the same time, here comes speed racer, passing on the right from behind the family with no word of warning and he doesn’t see the child until he’s almost on top of him. He swerves at the very last second, the child is knocked down and starts to wail, and the biker barely saves himself from tumbling to the ground. He curses and keeps going.
Example: A young woman is walking her little white terrior. From behind her come two speeding bikers who split up and make to pass on either side of her. At the same time, the dog pulls on its leash towards the grass at the side of the trail and the woman takes a few steps in that direction. Both woman and dog are nearly hit as the biker about to pass on the inside slams on his brakes and yells at her like she’s done something wrong when she was only walking closer to the park side of her lane!
An elderly gentleman walks his three Scotties down the path on leashes, and they take up a bit more than one lane between the four of them. It’s easy for people or strollers to get past them, but speeding bikers – not so much.
These are just a few examples of the kind of thing I see on a regular basis. I have nothing against bikers, but MOST of the ones I’ve seen zoom onto the trail from Beach drive are going way too fast for the kind of people traffic on the trail. I’ve nearly been hit a few times myself because I didn’t see or hear the bike whizzing up behind me. It’s downright scary to have those close calls! It’s often, especially on the weekend, simply too crowded for bikes and people both. Even when the path seems completely empty, people can jog down one of the trails from Lincoln Park above and show up in front of you, seemingly out of nowhere. This is another example of a time when I saw three bikers riding abreast nearly hit someone.
Secondly, these folks are not using bike protocol and saying:”on your right” when they are about to pass someone from behind. Very rarely do bikers actually let people know they’re coming up behind them. I guess they figure they can steer clear of anything, but that’s so often not the case.
Neighbors I’ve walked with have told me that some of these guys are training for some kind of long bike race, so they are very focused on speed.
In any case, I think that bike use should be banned from that mile of beach trail for the safety of all. Do I need to write city council or the parks department or what? Some people are there to jog, but many like to stroll along the trail and look at the water and enjoy the peace and quiet. This is a people part of the park, not a bike racing part of the park.
Thanks
March 23, 2009 at 7:06 am #661383
transplantellaParticipantYes, there are aggressive cyclers around and you don’t see them closing in from behind.
Do as the Chinese do: get a bell.
China is a menagerie of peddle vehicles, pedestrians, homemade road contraptions, all kinds of stuff sharing the same roadway space. The bikes all have bells.
The little dingy kind that we had on our bikes as kids (nothing shrill or invasive). Ring, ring, they warn you when coming up from behind. Works for them, it can work here.
Maybe the city of Seattle should post a commission to study the potential pros and cons, expense and invasion of civil liberties, liabilities and repercussions of requiring bicyclists to have little dingy bell–and then pass a law?
March 23, 2009 at 7:30 am #661384
KevinParticipantYears ago, I used to live up around Green Lake and the bike / pedestrian issue was an issue there too.
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Down here, the issue is just starting to appear. I see no reason to ban bikes, but the emphasis needs to be on courtesy.
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From the bicyclists point of view, the same can be said for walkers who insist on walking 2 – 4 abreast instead of single file.
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And my biggest gripe of all is people, including bicyclists, is people not keeping to the RIGHT, just like driving a car.
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It is all just a matter of common sense from all parties involved.
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March 23, 2009 at 8:29 am #661385
LesParticipantLast time I heard a bell speeding up from behind me it happened so fast I couldn’t tell for sure where the sound came from and moved over the wrong direction trying to get out of the way. Bells are not fool proof.
The other thing is that if these guys can’t be bothered to say “on your right” I doubt they’ll go buy a bell or bike horn. I don’t see how you can make them do it. Easier just to say no bikes.
Why would you ask couples or parents with children to walk single file so bikers can race by? Parents need to hold their child’s hand to keep them in the proper lane so the don’t get hit.
Bikes are on that trail for 4 or 5 minutes max on their way from one place to another. People are on the trail from 30 – 60 minutes enjoying a leisurely stroll through the park. There are lots of places set aside for bikers in West Seattle; why can’t this short stretch be set aside for people?
March 23, 2009 at 9:22 am #661386
Garden_nymphMemberWho do you think is riding the bikes, dogs?
March 23, 2009 at 4:09 pm #661387
RainyDay1235MemberSorry – bikers have the same right to the space as anyone else.
People who choose to procreate or have tiny dogs on leashes have no more right to public parks than bicyclists. What about little Johnny riding alongside his mom on his tricycle – would he be banned too? It’s an outdoor public active space – SHARE THE ROAD.
However, I can’t see how a Greenlake type painted divide to “help” designate/separate the two could hurt.
Signed….a non-bike-riding-dog-walking-mom-to-be that lives near Lincoln Park and uses the trail often.
March 23, 2009 at 4:30 pm #661388
JoBParticipantthe trail along the beach in Lincoln park is basically a sidewalk… not a road.
it once was.. but the ability to drive vehicles there is blocked.
shouldn’t cyclists behave as though they are riding on a sidewalk instead of expecting pedestrians of both the two and four legged variety to watch out for them?
March 23, 2009 at 4:35 pm #661389
RainyDay1235MemberOf course they should – it’s not a velodrome. Rude behavior is rude behavior. People with kids and dogs there are rude too – believe me! The officers out looking for unleashed dogs should hand out tickets to bicyclists for infractions on their part as well (according to whatever rules if any are actually in place there). But the topic is a ban on all bicycles.
March 23, 2009 at 4:43 pm #661390
JoBParticipantI guess my point is that banning isn’t necessary if everyone simply obeys the rules of the road…
and that is true for far more than bicyclists along Lincoln Park Beach Drive…
I guess i would like to add that this is a park… and the expectations of behavior for children and leashed dogs in a park is not the same as for those walking along a public road.
This isn’t a designated biking or skating or running track.. it’s a path in a public park…
I can’t speak about the intent of every park visitor but i do know that Olmstead parks were designed for the maximum enjoyment of the park.. not for speedy access from one side to the other.
March 23, 2009 at 5:19 pm #661391
B-squaredParticipantI don’t think bells would solve this problem as so many people are plugged into earbuds or talking on their cell phones that they aren’t likely to hear any kind of warning in a timely manner. i’m not excusing that – people definitely have responsibility to be aware of their surroundings and zombie ipod folks typically aren’t.
March 23, 2009 at 5:23 pm #661392
AnonymousInactiveI’m with Kevin. Perhaps we can all be a bit more altruistic.
I’m just thankful there are no dogs training for a bicycle race…that could get ugly real quick.
March 23, 2009 at 5:35 pm #661393
trensuelaMemberB-squared,
As a cyclist (who is often a pedestrian as well) I think there is no dumber thing than walking while attached to an iPod (or any other mp3 player for that matter). While I do my best to avoid riding on sidewalks (it is illegal in WA) whenever I ride on paths which allow bicycles I do say “on your left(right)”, unfortunately half the time the walker is deaf to their surroundings.
March 23, 2009 at 5:42 pm #661394
AnonymousInactiveTrensuela – You hit the nail on the head. iPods are overrated and expensive. Also, their dependency on iTunes is very limiting.
March 23, 2009 at 5:58 pm #661395
JoBParticipanttrensuela…
but so is riding on a path meant for scenic enjoyment and concentrating only on navigating the obstacles….
what you miss that way:)))))))
March 23, 2009 at 6:16 pm #661396
JanSParticipantIf…and it’s a big if..these guys on bikes are training for some race, there IS a velodrome at Marymoor Park for that.. If they’re riding, just to ride, they’re missing a lot if they’re speeding by and not looking at the wonderful views.
What I’m seeing here is that we’re excusing the rude behavior and just telling those walking to beware…that doesn’t cut it for me. Yes, we all need to share the road, but we shouldn’t expect walkers to simply know that you’re coming and to get out of your way. Bikers need to slow down a bit when coming into the park in that location…that’s a given. And bikers, too, need to pay attention to their surroundings, whether there’s a family, or someone with a couple of dogs, or someone with an iPod.(let’s keep blaming it on the walker) And I’m laughing at the single file suggestion…this isn’t Greenlake…it’s a park for leisurely strolling – let’s get real here.
Unfortunately, it seems that bikers of this ilk, the racers, don’t really give a damn…they just want you to get out of their way. Yeah, it’s rude behavior :(
March 23, 2009 at 6:26 pm #661397
AnonymousInactiveI smell a repeat of the Critical Mass Cage Match 2008 brewing….
Perhaps there are better times of day to coordinate high-speedery through Lincoln Park? Is there a cyclist group that can be used as an intermediary for the discussion?
March 23, 2009 at 6:34 pm #661398
WSMomParticipantThe particular path OP refers to has at least a five foot drop off for a large section. Really, the speed-racers are creating a dangerous circumstance. I’ve ridden my bike to Colman Pool(slowly) on that path and find myself walking my bike when passing children and dogs to keep myself safely on the trail and not flying off into the rocks. Consideration of others is the key point.
March 23, 2009 at 6:35 pm #661399
B-squaredParticipantTrensuela – that’s what i was getting at. Few people can stand to be alone with their own thoughts now a days that they become virtual zombies with earbuds. They are just as zoned out when crossing the street as walking on a path or a sidewalk. you see them everywhere. i am in no way excusing them. i ride this same stretch of path myself when i bike. people walking abreast and completely oblivious to others also using the path is another accident waiting to happen. i tend to go slow along the stretch north of the pool as it is narrower.
March 23, 2009 at 7:13 pm #661400
JoBParticipantoh no.. people are walking abreast on a scenic path in a public park and not moving along in a orderly fashion?
have we become so consumed with getting somewhere that even our parks are only public thoroughfares?
Please say it ain’t so…
The parks were designed so people could escape that kind of urban press… and they are still an excellent place to do so.
god forbid people would stroll along enjoying the park and the view or that children and dogs would dart about at the end of their parental tether and play…
what is this world coming to?
March 23, 2009 at 7:28 pm #661401
AnonymousInactiveGotta go. Get moving. Please move along. Nothing to see here. Step aside. Coming through. Don’t relax. On alert. Security threat orange.
What about spike strips.
March 23, 2009 at 7:42 pm #661402
B-squaredParticipantJoB – i’m just saying high-speed bike + folks walking abreast (taking up the whole width of the path) = accident potential. all parties need to be aware of their surroundings, and situationally aware, period. look, i am a bird watcher. i often stop on that gravelly trail to check out harlequin ducks. but i move out of the middle of the trail, or i hop down to the beach, out of consideration of others. awareness and consideration go a long way on both sides of this thread.
March 23, 2009 at 7:45 pm #661403
vincentMemberI love how every solution to any perceived problem large or small on this site is a ban. Dogs, empty houses, bikes in parks, bikes on sidewalks, people having too much trash.
Stay classy west seattle
oh and @trensuela: riding a bicycle on a sidewalk is perfectly legal in wa state. As per RCW 46.61.755
Traffic laws apply to persons riding bicycles.
(2) Every person riding a bicycle upon a sidewalk or crosswalk must be granted all of the rights and is subject to all of the duties applicable to a pedestrian by this chapter.
March 23, 2009 at 7:50 pm #661404
JiggersMemberI agree. Bike riders in the city are the most obnoxious around. They want everything for nothing. They never follow the rules of the road and expect you in a four-wheeled vehicle to give them courtesy. They have to be banned from parks because they will wear and tear the trails faster than human feet will–not too mention being a hazard to foot traffic. Those trails are not paved or geared for that type of recreation. Someone could get seriously hurt by gettng hit from behind by a bike going at least fifteen miles and hour. I smell an accident waiting to happen and a nice city lawsuit that will cost us tax payers thousands of $$$.
March 23, 2009 at 9:12 pm #661405
vincentMember@jiggers, what’s that saying opinions are like what again? cause everyone has one? nice nonsense post though, I am sure the imaginary dreaded accident lawsuit will be so humongo that we can just ban everyone from parks as a fix.
can we ban snow and rain soon as well, I hear they cause problems for drivers. Oh and bad manners.March 23, 2009 at 10:35 pm #661406
WSJMemberVincent is correct in his post that bicyclists are afforded the rights of a pedestrian when riding on sidewalk or a mixed-use trail (which the Lincoln park beach trail is), however they must yield the right of way to pedestrians, as per RCW 46.61.261:
“The driver of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian or bicycle on a sidewalk. The rider of a bicycle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian on a sidewalk or crosswalk.”
I think some signs posted at either end of the park stating something like “BICYCLISTS MUST YIELD TO PEDESTRIANS” would help to remind many of them to slow down.
All that being said, I walk my dog in Lincoln park daily, and while I believe Les’s accounts are true, I wouldn’t say it’s the norm. Most bicyclists are riding slow enough to be safe and yield to pedestrians. It’s just the few that piss people off that get remembered when it comes time to post a message.
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