FOLLOWUP: Here’s what SDOT plans to do about seemingly crash-prone stretch toward southwest end of West Seattle Bridge

| Safety | Transportation | West Seattle news

(Reader photo from November 1, 2024, crash)

After another round of crashes in early January near the southwest end of the West Seattle Bridge – by the welcome sign, sculptures, and pullout – we asked SDOT what they were doing to evaluate the site and potentially take action. Comment discussion has centered on whether a pavement change is a factor, and/or whether speed is the major problem, and/or possibly certain vehicle types. SDOT’s first reply was that they were looking into it. We followed up again, and this afternoon received this update:

Our pavement engineers and Vision Zero team met recently to discuss this issue.

This year we plan to add safety enhancements to encourage drivers to approach the curve at a safer speed. We are currently considering various treatments such as warning signs, raised pavement markings, and/or reflective markings.

If the pattern continues after those safety enhancements have been made, we are looking into the feasibility of two possible methods to increase the traction of the pavement in this area either by grinding down the top layer of pavement or adding a high-friction surface treatment. We’re considering the pros and cons of each option to determine if either one makes sense in this area. Either option would need to be scheduled at some point a little further out in the future after considering resources, crew availability, weather, and traffic impacts for drivers.

We don’t have stats on how many crashes have happened along that stretch – even our archives show crashes that aren’t reflected on the SDOT collision-info map.

Al King February 7, 2025 (3:34 pm)

Poor pavement condition is the PRIMARY cause of these accidents. The answer from SDOT is clear proof they have NO interest or desire to actually fix the problem until there are many more accidents. Target zero? I call BS on that!

Derp February 7, 2025 (5:10 pm)

I call bs on the pavement being the man issue. Be serious, nobody speed thru this section, come on now. The privileged people of West Seattle speed everywhere.
- Ferns February 8, 2025 (8:48 am)
  
  Why an ad hominem attack? Why attack the character of a diverse body of people other than to foster division and weaken society? Are you an enemy of democracy and western values?
  - Brian February 9, 2025 (7:50 am)
    
    Question not posed to me but: yes absolutely lol
Eddie February 7, 2025 (5:26 pm)

Set up some temporary, data based observation in that area. Use cameras and lasers to collect speed, vehicle type, position in lane, vehicle reaction (X/Y/Z axis) to the pavement through the area. Observe 100,00 vehicles (1 month, 2 months?) and x crashes and work from the data, not conjecture.
- bolo February 8, 2025 (10:39 am)
  
  @Eddie, (“Observe 100,00 vehicles (1 month, 2 months?) and x crashes and work from the data, not conjecture.”):
  
  Data from Washington State Transportation Center:
  
  West Seattle Bridge carries avg. 84,000 vehicles/ day (2022 numbers– during covid– so probably higher now). So you should be able to get your data within a few days!
Seattlite February 7, 2025 (6:05 pm)

Al King: WS’s drivers are paying for SDOT’s ineptness, lack of vision, lack of initiative to problem-solve in a timely manner. REMINDER: “The Director of the Seattle Department of Transportation (SDOT) reports directly to the Mayor of Seattle; the position is appointed by the Mayor and confirmed by the Seattle City Council.”
- 1994 February 7, 2025 (10:14 pm)
  
  Effective February 4th, Adiam Emery will serve as the next interim director of the Seattle Department of Transportation…..Ms Emery is a former West Seattle resident…..I wonder if she had trouble at this curve….
wsEthicist February 7, 2025 (6:31 pm)

Isn’t it also usually rear-wheel drive vehicles? Also can imagine bald tires as the cause.
Hunk February 7, 2025 (6:32 pm)

[citation missing]
John February 7, 2025 (10:57 pm)

That stretch of road was closed the whole time the bridge was out of service. The fact that SDOT didn’t do anything to fix the problem then highlights the incompetence in the department.The problem is a combination of the road surface, the tight arc at that corner AND a depression in the road surface that’s about a car length + right at the apex of the arc.You come into the corner, carrying some speed (the speed doesn’t need to be super excessive). Your car drops into that depression, springs and suspension compress all the way, then you’re kicked up and out of the depression and, unweighted, coming out of the curve you’ve just lost most of your traction. In wet conditions you’re fishtailing. It’s manageable when you’re familiar with the road but if not it’s a surprise and no big shocker that there are accidents….The easiest fix would be to get rid of that depression AND give that curve a good inward sloping camber. But that would have been best done DURING THE YEARS that the bridge was closed.Maddening incompetence!
- Bets February 8, 2025 (12:04 pm)
  
  This this this. SDOT should pay you (I’ll take a cut haha) the $1.7m the did for an impact study. It’s ALL of these factors combined. The pavement changes from a new, higher traction surface to the old worn down stuff right when you come out of the depression, and if it’s wet and you’re going a *bit* too fast because you’re unfamiliar with the road… yikes. It’s not going to be fixed until all of the factors are addressed, and it’s a travesty that they didn’t do this during bridge repairs.
- Ga Lam February 8, 2025 (4:14 pm)
  
  Exactly this. If any of them had just driven it two or three times it would have been obvious. Your explanation is perfect.
- CAM February 9, 2025 (12:31 pm)
  
  Define “not super excessive” speed please. I’ve driven that curve in both lanes, repeatedly, in rain and other conditions, and have never lost traction. But I’m certain the people flying by me at 60 mph have more problems there than I do.
AlkiRenter February 8, 2025 (11:09 am)

I dunno – I see so many people take that curve 15-20 MPH over the speed limit/and or the suggested speed for the curve. Never had a problem with losing traction when going just 0-5 over. I think their first option is the most reasonable and best use of our tax dollars given that anecdotally it appears to be either driver behavior or lack of maintenance on the vehicle (i.e. bald tires and/or driving a high-profile vehicle like the one pictured in the post). People need to slow the heck down in these curves – especially in the rain.
Not dumb February 9, 2025 (8:25 pm)

If you take that corner at the 35 mph that you’re supposed to, the pavement is not an issue. These wrecks are from trucks and SUVs that take the corner too fast.

Guarantee it won’t make a difference February 7, 2025 (3:43 pm)

This is 100% on the drivers driving recklessly. Just like the Convention exit downtown Sb I5. The curve doesn’t just pop up and it’s already stated that you should be going slower than the speed limit in a curve and cautiously.

Mike February 7, 2025 (5:24 pm)

“Guarantee it won’t make a difference” irony in a name. Historical stats show you are incorrect. Prior to the rework of that stretch, people still drove like idiots, but didn’t crash as often there much less flip cars there as often.
- Guarantee bad drivers will still find an excuse even if SDOT does anything February 7, 2025 (6:28 pm)
  
  Does that sound better? Basics of driving:- follow the posted speed limit- go through turns and curves under the speed limit- use caution in weather that affects road conditions and/or vision- put distractions awayIf you’re not doing the first two every time then you get what you get.
- kbiz February 7, 2025 (10:36 pm)
  
  agreed! before the pavement rework I’d driven that road 100 times… after the new surface I lost complete traction twice in the exact same spot and I was going under the speed limit. the ground need only be wet there…
Lauren February 7, 2025 (5:28 pm)

Agreed – I always travel the posted speed limit through there, and have never had an issue.
Mark U February 7, 2025 (9:11 pm)

..or they can just fix the concrete when it transitions suddenly from channeled to smooth. I have an AWD sedan with new Michelins but I can still feel my tires slipping around that corner while going the speed limit. Traction always breaks on the smooth section in the turn. Many people probably don’t notice but their tires actually do slip a little.
- bill February 8, 2025 (12:06 am)
  
  Speed limits do not guarantee safety. The RCW requires drivers to drive appropriately for the conditions. Your “traction always breaks”? So you know your car and nice tires can’t handle the curve, but you keep driving too fast anyway?
  - AlkiRenter February 8, 2025 (11:10 am)
    
    Amen, Bill! Amen.

AintLyin February 7, 2025 (3:45 pm)

I am skeptical more signage will help the drivers most at risk of crashing there, since they are probably on their phones anyways so they won’t see it. Instead spend that money to rename it Darwin’s Corner since you have to be driving like a total ding dong to lose control there.

Guy February 7, 2025 (5:20 pm)

Ahahaha, I love this!
- Bill#1 February 8, 2025 (1:16 am)
  
  Right!! — Finally a common sense observation!

Marcus February 7, 2025 (3:56 pm)

I tend to support gov agencies because they are pulled many directions and have to put up with many, many unhappy citizens. However, my oh my, just grind the cr.p out of that section and be done with it. Speed is the real culprit yet there is a transition from rough to smooth at that point. Just grind it and be done SDOT.

Jethro Marx February 7, 2025 (4:15 pm)

They ought to put up one of those signs that read your speed but have it flash, “YOU WILL CRASH” over a certain number. Maybe a little Wile E. Coyote type of animation too.

West Seattle Mad Sci Guy February 7, 2025 (5:36 pm)
- Thanks. Adding looney toons references made me chuckle
AlkiRenter February 8, 2025 (11:12 am)

This! These types of signs are pretty effective in parks and wilderness areas.

Slipnslide February 7, 2025 (4:22 pm)

I have noticed that my SUV has a tendency to lose traction at this very spot. I’m not sure why. I fish-tailed there once in wet conditions. Speed is definitely a factor. I always slow down there now, which typically results in serious tail-gating behind me. My last car was a sporty sedan with AWD, and I always had good grip in this spot. FWIW.

Mark U February 7, 2025 (8:58 pm)

It’s your vehicles center of gravity. Taller vehicles have more weight transfer in turns meaning less grip.

Al King February 7, 2025 (4:33 pm)

I actually do know an SDOT employee. He’s responded to many of these accidents. The transition from resurfaced pavement to smooth old pavement halfway around that curve is REAL. While speed is an issue, he stated that 90% of those crash’s would NOT happen if there was good proper pavement on ALL of that curve.

wetone February 7, 2025 (6:54 pm)

You are correct AK, as said by SDOT employee. I can back up 100% of what that person said to be true. I have personally worked in that section of roadway multiple times doing repairs and can say there are multiple issues with roadway surface, no rocket scientist needed. Grooved, non-grooved, worn out and elevation changes in that section of curved roadway. Speed is on issue also, but that is no different on any section of roadway. This is a dangerous area and I am really surprised there hasn’t been a lawsuit yet or has there ? As a main roadway leading to ferry and elsewhere I should say I’m shocked SDOT hasn’t ground or blasted that section, but I’m not. What’s Vision Zero have to do with this ? show me anything they have done leading to any Real Improvements? add speed bumps, lower speed to 20mph or road diet to one lane…. There is zero accountability in this city, but people keep passing all the levy’s…….
- JP February 8, 2025 (10:20 am)
  
  Shhhh…. Don’t you know those dufuses driving recklessly are squarely to blame?? They alone are the root cause. Nothing to see here folks!
  - Brian February 9, 2025 (7:53 am)
    
    Are you contending that car accidents would continue to happen if nobody drove?
B February 7, 2025 (9:26 pm)

There’s a healthy dip in the road in the right-hand lane, right where the pavement surface changes. Going through a dip in the road can certainly cause a car to lose traction, and losing traction in a curve can certainly cause a loss of control.
Joanie February 7, 2025 (10:23 pm)

I’ve always noticed that about the pavement on those curves and take it real easy, but if you’re not expecting it, it’s pretty treacherous

Vee February 7, 2025 (5:21 pm)

I have never had a problem there in any weather but I go slow , people speed like crazy right past me , they should put up one of those sign s that light up your speed and say slow down and the flash red if you’re really speeding, and right before that put signage boldly SLOW DOWN

ITotallyAgreeWithYou February 7, 2025 (5:32 pm)

What a tone deaf reply from SDOT. There is already ample signage and there is ample testimony on WSB to the problem, which happens even to attentive drivers going at or below the speed limit. Not every incident leads to a crash or to a report so crashes should not be the sole measure. Skip the next series of meetings to discuss why things aren’t getting done, and just fix the pavement already.

Srsly tho February 7, 2025 (5:40 pm)

I am one of those annoying drivers who always obeys the speed limit and I’ve slid out several times at that spot, in the right lane, in wet conditions. SUV, rear wheel drive, (recent) BF Goodrich KO2 tires.

Gatewood February 7, 2025 (5:57 pm)

I’ve had first hand experience with this curve. I was not speeding and drive AWD vehicle. Right where the types of pavement change, the backend of car a fishtailed. Very scary. Now I go around that curve under the speed limit.

D-Mom February 7, 2025 (7:56 pm)

Same! AWD with snow tires and I lost traction while going below the speed limit right after an accident was cleared from the same spot. I don’t ever drive in the inside lane anymore with wet pavement. This response from the city is crap. I hope all those that got into accidents sue the city since they don’t care to really address the problem.

John A. February 7, 2025 (5:58 pm)

This is a totally lame reply by SDOT. More mismanagement, bureaucracy and people who appear to not know what they’re doing. Forever this section has been slick. I’ve slipped going around the corner, I ve seen others slip. It needs the increased traction option first and foremost, immediately, start it! Then also add signage. That sign with the squiggly tire marks. Get with it SDOT, this has been years coming.

Dave February 7, 2025 (6:26 pm)

Classic SDOT – blame the drivers! It’s a pavement geometry issue, stupid (that even rookie engineers should understand).

Jethro Marx February 8, 2025 (2:52 pm)

I will concede that SDOT sucks to some extent, as the government actor at any level is usually least useful, but many of us also blame the driver, for good reason. We go to drive the roads we have, not the roads we wish we had, or the roads as designed on paper.
I will also concede that far fewer of us should be allowed to drive. But if this inconsistent bit of road defeats you, maybe driving lessons are a better solution than hollering at the blog or suing SDOT.
I will also politely suggest, if you’re going to tell us about the ins and outs of “pavement geometry” issues you had better have more to say than that ‘even a rookie engineer would know!’

Alan February 7, 2025 (6:40 pm)

That old concrete is worn down to polished stones. Also, it probably had too much aggregate to begin with. Or too large of aggregate. Or both. Time to grind or start over.

Joe February 7, 2025 (6:42 pm)

Gee…let’s try the cheap and easy way first. Then if that doesn’t work, we’ll fix the real problem.

Hammer in Hand February 7, 2025 (7:38 pm)

Never had a problem here. Been driving that curve since the early 70’s. It is speed. Those who choose to drive fast through thereIts A matter of choice and consequences Choose to drive too fast… consequence. SPD should bring back the traffic squad and write a few tickets. But then again I saw a driver 7:20am get two speeding tickets in each of two school zones on Fauntleroy one morning. Some people just don’t give a sh*t

Wseatrailblazer February 7, 2025 (10:19 pm)

That section where it turns into river rock is so slick. I always slow down right before the transition from new concrete to old is. That whole turn used to be river rock and slippery in the rain.

KK February 8, 2025 (2:02 am)

Has a car insurance company ever sued SDOT? That may be the only way to force road surface changes. Plus the insurance companies are the only ones who collectively have the data on the crashes. Police are not always called but insurance likely is…

Firefighter February 8, 2025 (10:48 am)

Ehhhh? This is the Age of MAGA (Make America Grim Again): fat cat oligarch-run insurance companies won’t sue anybody but their policyholders! Too many claims? They’ll just raise rates or dump you.

Canton February 8, 2025 (7:12 am)

I guess “Vision zero” means, keep the blinders on, nothing to see here…. Decals and stickers huh!?! Yeah, that’s good work SDOT. Keep the levies coming, because they are definitely great stewards of all that tax money….

CMB February 8, 2025 (7:51 am)

This response from SDOT is a lawyer’s dream. Sooner or later there will be an injury or death caused by this poorly engineered corner and city will have to payout big for their negligence. Sadly this is what it takes for changes to be made.

Tivasi February 8, 2025 (9:12 am)

1. Rear wheel drive2. Positrac3. Speed 4. Always in the rain.SLOW DOWN

Bbron February 8, 2025 (10:07 am)

This comment section is hilarious. Y’all remember that a speed limit is posted for dry conditions, right? Y’all realize you are in control of the vehicle, not the sign? Does anyone remember anything from driver’s ed that you need to slow down in rain? I wish more FAA-like training seeped into driver licensing cause everyone is falling for the dangerous attitude of complacency. “I had to drive the speed limit, and it turned out to be too fast for the conditions and wasn’t paying attention enough to correct my behavior”. The hilarity of thinking there’s any standing for legal action: http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.445

bill February 8, 2025 (9:37 pm)

The people who remember drivers ed are fast disappearing. Public schools in this state began dropping driver ed 20 years ago. 16 & 17 year olds can take lessons at private driving $chool$ to get a license. Or you can wait to 18 and get a license with no formal training. Once you have a license you just need to buy a renewal every four years. Renewal exams have been gone for 30 years. Witness the results.

Maggie February 8, 2025 (11:08 am)

I drive like the Little Old Lady from Pasadena and consciously approach this turn going 30 miles an hour or less. Even with my new tires, when the car hits the area of pavement that changes from one type to another, I always feel my car do a little bit of a slide. It’s like it catches air in that fraction of a second and takes another second to “land” on the next road type. The numerous accidents have been documented, the city is well aware of these accidents, the problem area has been identified, any costs for further accidents should be charged directly to the city.

Also John February 8, 2025 (12:27 pm)

Here’s a thought. Keep under the speed limit. You’re welcome.

Al King February 8, 2025 (2:49 pm)

Also John. Please define “under the speed limit” How far under the limit do you alway’s drive- without fail drive?
- Brian February 9, 2025 (7:54 am)
  
  The answer is 25 mph. Next.

BlahBleh February 8, 2025 (5:41 pm)

Scrolling through these comments reminds me why I almost never visit the “comments” section. Thanks for the refresher…

Sign Reader February 8, 2025 (5:54 pm)

The posted speed limit on the high bridge is 45mph. Most westbound drivers exceed this by quite a lot as they descend from the crest of the high bridge. So, many drivers approach the hill into West Seattle at a speed in excess of what the high bridge was designed for and many attempt to carry this speed up the hill.

The design speed for this section of road is almost certainly lower than the design speed for the high bridge. In fact, there used to be a 40 mph sign located on a pole at the downhill end of the pull out adjacent to the children on logs. I don’t know what happened to it.

Currently, there are only two speed limit signs after you pass the Delridge off-ramp. There is a 45mph sign just past the Delridge off-ramp and a 30mph warning sign just past the WB Admiral off-ramp at the bottom of the hill. Both are adjacent to the right lane and easy to miss if you are in left lane and going a bit too fast.

SDOT should probably replace the 45 mph sign currently located just west of the Delridge offramp with a pair of 40 mph signs, one on each side of WB roadway. It might be better if they were located a little further west than the current location of the 45mph sign to be replaced.

SDOT should install another 30mph warning sign at the bottom of the hill adjacent to left lane where the one sign is now. Alternately, they could move the transition to 30mph to the bottom of hill. The current transition is too close to the intersection of Fauntleroy and 35th SW.

KT February 9, 2025 (7:38 am)

This year we plan to add safety enhancements to encourage drivers to approach the curve at a safer speed. We are currently considering various treatments such as warning signs, raised pavement markings, and/or reflective markings.This year? And those are safety enhancements? Wow. As soon as someone dies they will get serious.

I saw the sign (and it opened up my mind) February 10, 2025 (11:49 am)

This sign has been here for more than a decade. Check your Google Maps. If you have not seen it before then perhaps there needs to be better signage for this curve.

Sorry, comment time is over.