Parks Board to hear presentation on ‘pickleball and tennis vision’ Thursday

Just received the agenda for the next meeting of the Seattle Board of Parks and Recreation Commissioners, and it includes one item of potential West Seattle interest – a presentation on the department’s “pickleball and tennis vision.” A proposal to convert a former Lincoln Park tennis court into pickleball courts sparked a significant amount of controversy last year, and the department has yet to officially update its status. The last Parks official to address the plan at a West Seattle meeting, deputy superintendent Andy Sheffer, is listed as co-presenting the briefing; we don’t yet know if it will include specifics on locations or will be just a policy overview. It’s on the agenda for 6:30 pm Thursday (April 25); the board meets in-person at Parks HQ downtown, and you can also attend online – info is in our calendar listing.

DefBird April 23, 2024 (1:30 pm)

Just yesterday! https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/22/nyregion/pickleball-wollman-rink.html?searchResultPosition=1

The outdoor skating rink in NYC’s Central Park, with hundreds of more bird species than Lincoln Park, is being converted to a flex space with skating in winter and pickleball the rest of the year.
No protests from Audubon NYC or the more abundant bird species that occupy Central Park.
What do they know that we don’t?

Citybird April 23, 2024 (2:07 pm)

That birds can adapt, but humans can’t??
K April 23, 2024 (3:09 pm)

That birds living in urban environments are used to urban environments, that they aren’t scared of people, and that human recreation is better for birds than maintenance storage, apparently.
Central Park April 24, 2024 (6:18 am)

Centeal Park is much much much much bigger than Lincoln Park. That means there is way more space for designated sports areas far away from the quieter more nature filled areas. I grew up in NYC, and every time I see this comparison I immediately know that the commentator has very little hands on knowledge about NYC or Central Park.
Charlie April 24, 2024 (6:59 am)

Doesn’t matter, birds aren’t real. Everyone knows that. Why all the nonsense for pickle ball? Why don’t folks just buy tennis rackets?
Denise April 24, 2024 (4:04 pm)

Those courts in Central Park charge people $120 per hour to play in peak hours. It’s not comparable to Lincoln Park in any way.

Let’s go dual striping April 23, 2024 (1:56 pm)

Bring back the proposal that Solstice Park tennis courts get dual striped for pickle ball or even Walt Hundley since it now has the healthy street designation on 34th. SP has better visibility and accessibility as does WH. I’m a tennis player and I would play pickleball on the same courts. I’ve played tennis at a location like Lincoln Park court and was attacked. I can’t imagine people wanting to play any sport that side of the park with a lack of access to people or vehicle in the event of an emergency. Better yet add a third striping to SP or WH for badminton and the usage would increase but maintain the same existing footprint.

not NYC April 23, 2024 (2:31 pm)

I really wouldn’t want us to imitate anything NYC is doing at the moment!

Smoosh April 23, 2024 (4:28 pm)

Said like someone who has never been to Central Park.

Support Solstice park courts April 23, 2024 (3:16 pm)

Posting here to ask for community support on the dual striped tennis and pickleball court idea that was initially proposed. Solstice park has lighting so that means the park will be able to be used in the winter with early sunsets. Asking my fellow neighbors to support this as it would be efficiently using a space that already has been built which means less impact to the wild animals in the area and residents don’t have to deal with building. Funds can also be allocated to maybe adding a fence to deter joyriders dumping cars at Lincoln beach.

wscommuter April 23, 2024 (5:18 pm)

Once again, for those who don’t know or aren’t paying attention. West Seattle has tennis courts at Alki, Hiawatha, Walt Hundley, Southwest (Sealth), all of which already have been restripesd for pickleball. Solstice is the single set of courts in West Seattle dedicated for tennis only, which is why so many of us in the tennis community asked the City to leave them alone and that’s why the City agreed. Tennis and pickleball don’t coexist well. We just want one set of courts left alone, having surrendered all the others to share with pickleball, for tennis only. I am agnostic about the Lincoln Park pickleball plan – but leave Solstice out of your fight.
- Kyle April 23, 2024 (6:25 pm)
  
  Riverview nor Highland Park courts are dual striped. All the courts should be dual striped including solstice for more use by park users. We already multi-stripe soccer, football etc. fields. This is no different.
- Thd3 April 24, 2024 (10:54 am)
  
  Drive by the Fauntleroy courts (preserved solely for tennis and they’re usually 100% empty) while people are waiting in lines to get in on a pickle ball court across the whole area – myself included. It’s time we find a way to coexist – at one point the bicycle definitely didn’t like sharing the road or the added lines required for the car.
Wseattleite April 23, 2024 (11:54 pm)

Ummm, the pickleball courts in Lincoln Park are ALREADY THERE! Why is there so much misinformation spread around about this? It seems like most people don’t even understand what is planned.
- bigpicture April 25, 2024 (1:56 pm)
  
  There was a slab of concrete there that was put there decades ago for tennis courts. The courts were abandoned because so much debris fell on them from the surrounding trees. The same would be true if they refinished the slabs and made them into pickleball courts. There would be a constant flow of pine needles and leaves and moisture falling on the courts, and if you’ve ever played pickleball, which I have, you know how easy it is to injure yourself, which I have. So, you can either bring a loud leaf blower to blow every 15 minutes to clear 6 courts (which would suck for players and everyone in hearing distance), cut down the trees (which would suck for the owls, songbirds, and nature lovers), or deal with people getting really hurt by playing there. Facts.

Sarah April 23, 2024 (3:52 pm)

It’s not about the birds for me…it the noise!! When I walk near that stretch of park on the upper trails and imagine the thundering repetitive whacking of balls on paddles, I can’t fathom why anyone would want to hear or allow that racket in this peaceful setting. It’s a noise nuisance plain and simple and has no place in a park meant to bring people to the outdoors to enjoy it!

Josh April 23, 2024 (4:29 pm)

It would be a shame to have a distraction from all the off leash dogs.
Alki resident April 23, 2024 (4:40 pm)

You do realize it’s not 24/7 peaceful setting right? People go there to play sports, play around the kiddie pool and Colman pool, have bbq’s and events and play on the playgrounds? Lincoln Park is a multi use area for everyone. The noise of the ferry is louder than any pickleball. And you “ imagining “ doesn’t make it reality.
Santiago U April 23, 2024 (8:34 pm)

The proposed site is next to a playground and behind a soccer and baseball field. It’s not quiet. It has never been quiet. Maybe you mean to say that you want fewer people to go to the park.
Samantha April 24, 2024 (6:29 pm)

This is an ignorant take. Parks aren’t silent. Put on headphones if you must deal with your personal hearing sensitivity issue.
Conners April 24, 2024 (8:48 pm)

I completely agree! Let’s ditch the pickleball plan and bring back the original vision of a tennis court! 🎾 #TennisCourtRevitalization #PickleballNoMore

DefBird April 23, 2024 (4:20 pm)

“Against anything NYC is doing”,
You mean prosecuting Trump?
Or having an inner-city park that proves that both pickleball and birds can thrive in the same environment, and do so better than Seattle
(more bird species+more pickleball)?

Charlie April 24, 2024 (7:10 am)

Central Park is also off-leash for dogs in the morning and evening. Has always stunned me that you can apparently take a dog into a hospital or restaurant in Seattle, but unsnap that leash in a park and it’s straight to jail!

aRF April 23, 2024 (4:34 pm)

I live about four blocks away from the Whale Tail tennis courts, restriped for pickleball. We can hear pickleball all day long, all week long now. I sympathize with people who are closer to the courts and really impacted by the noise. Whether you’re talking about Solstice Park or Lincoln Park, it’s all going to be loud and carry far.

KM April 23, 2024 (6:17 pm)

Please sign my petition to install pickleball courts on the Alki Stay Healthy street.

Matt April 23, 2024 (8:34 pm)

Was just back in Iowa visiting family and they have pickleball courts packed into parks, event spaces and rooftop bars. It’s crazy to think that the birthplace of the sport can’t get past the local gatekeepers

HS April 24, 2024 (10:22 am)

There are 12 courts to play pickleball on just in West Seattle…. 6 places to play in Greenlake, 2 in Queen Anne, 4 in Ballard, etc.
- Jeff April 24, 2024 (10:42 am)
  
  Yes? Demand is demand. More the merrier!

Santiago U April 23, 2024 (8:40 pm)

I’m pretty sure cars are louder and more constant than pickleball noise. But in any case, the site at Lincoln Park is fairly removed from residences, looks pretty ideal to me. I go to Lincoln Park at least 4 times a week to run and welcome the idea of pickleball in that unused site.

sorrywehaveavoice April 25, 2024 (1:51 pm)

Appreciate your input Santiago, but, unfortunately, over 10k people have signed petitions that disagree with you. They don’t want 6 courts in the center of that forest sanctuary. We are a democracy and – speaking of that – I have yet to see a petition from pickleball players asking for a court there.
- Gaslit April 26, 2024 (11:03 pm)
  
  Sorry to tell you, petitions are a false equivalency to democracy. Signatures collected have to be verified as legitimate. Once vetted, very few petitions like this carry any real weight.

1994 April 23, 2024 (10:04 pm)

“pickleball and tennis vision.” The great pickleball debate continues Seattle style. Waiting for further entertaining comments.

Melissa Westbrook April 24, 2024 (8:20 am)

The biggest bang for your Parks budget is painting pickleball stripes. You create a multi-use court so more people can access it. (But there should be clear rules about how long any given group can play so others can use it.)But, I see from one comment that other parks DO have pickleball stripes and I agree there should be some standalone tennis courts. I play both so I see both sides. As for the noise, it’s a park.

helpermonkey April 24, 2024 (9:00 am)

Pickleball players are the most sensitive snowflakes I have ever encountered. Just share with the tennis courts already – we are all quite sick of hearing you whine and make demands of the city.

K April 24, 2024 (10:21 pm)

It’s the tennis players that don’t want to share.

Stewart Wechsler April 25, 2024 (10:14 am)

My concern is not for the birds, it
is for the people who come to Lincoln Park to enjoy both the
birds, the sounds of birds, and the otherwise relative peace and
quiet of one of the rarest and best bits of nature left in Seattle. Even
the dog walkers come to Lincoln Park to enjoy the sounds, sights and smells of nature
together with their dogs. Pickleball is known for the loud, and far
carrying sound it makes. This would degrade the value of Lincoln
Park as a natural area for the people that come from all around
Seattle to enjoy this wealth of nature that is still in the city.
Seattle couldn’t buy another place like this for Seattlites for a
billion dollars. Rather than degrade the unique wealth of nature of
Lincoln Park with the noise of pickleball, find a vacant lot by
Boeing Field, or in the industrial district for another pickleball
court, where there would be the least conflict of interests, and the
least degradation of wealth for other people.

Denise April 25, 2024 (12:49 pm)

Well said, Stewart. You are 100% right!
- DefBird April 25, 2024 (2:27 pm)
  
  100%? Except for the fact that Stewart does not seem aware of the harm dog owners allow their dogs to do to the beautiful natural sections of the park that he so aptly describes. I do wonder if he has as been to this section of Lincoln Park designed an designated for athletic fields, long existing tennis courts, baseball diamond (with backstop), soccer field with soccer nets, rows of bleachers, a children’s play area, zip line, wading pool, restrooms, barbecues and picnic shelters? This is not a quiet area, but a greatly used group activity area set aside and appreciated by generations of Seattleites. There are many sounds to be heard coming from kids and sports people. I hope these joyful sounds of humans will remain in Lincoln Park

DefBird April 25, 2024 (11:03 am)

Stewart, if you have ever stopped to listen at the unofficial off leash dog area adjacent to the old tennis courts, you would realize just how much noise exists.
This is not the pristine forested part of this multi-use park that you lovingly refer.
You make no mention of the myriad activities of this active multi use park (mistaken Lincoln for Schmitz or Fauntleroy, both without facilities?)
Lincoln Park is the home to the long established athletic fields, children’s play area, zip line, wading pool and picnic shelters.
I have documented with a sound decibel meter the actual sound levels of this area to be louder than pickleball.
In this area, we hear dogs barking, children’s shrieks, team cheers and coach’s yells as well as the constant din of truck, bus and car traffic from Fauntleroy Way.
We also hear ferries docking and leaving and the low flight paths of private airplanes over Lincoln Park on approach to Boeing Field.As NYC’s legendary Central Park illustrates, it is possible to have serve both pickleball with the enjoyment of hundreds of more bird species than Lincoln Park and have space in the park for people to imagine the silence.

Stewart Wechsler April 25, 2024 (3:54 pm)

Defbird, I have been to every corner of the park. Lincoln has been my home away from home for 20 + years. I’m also fully aware of the damage irresponsible dog owners let their dogs do to the park. In spite of this damage by off trail dogs, Lincoln Park remains one of the richest patches of nature left in Seattle. The fact that some irresponsible dog owners let their dogs run everywhere, off leash, and off trail, doesn’t detract from the fact that both responsible, and irresponsible, dog owners, and their dogs, are enjoying this exceptional patch of nature in the city! Dogs around the city are bringing their owners to parks for walks, and Lincoln is among the favorite places those owners let their dogs take them, so they both can enjoy its natural wealth! Dog owners don’t want a noisier park to take their dogs to. They almost surely would value a quieter park more than they would value a noisier park.

In spite of all of the noises of people in Lincoln Park, Lincoln remains one of the quietest places in Seattle, and one of the best places to hear the birds rather than a loud “ping ping” of pickleball. No park user wants a noisier park, especially those who come there for its quiet, and bird songs.

nope April 25, 2024 (4:35 pm)

“No park user wants a noisier park,”

You’re unequivocally wrong, because I want a noisier park. I want a noisier park because I’d like the playground fixed and while I know that will increase the noise, we live in a city and I value places for people to play.

defBird April 25, 2024 (5:38 pm)

Hyperbole?
Lincoln Park is not “one of the quietest places in Seattle” if you are measuring sound levels.
Nearby in West Seattle,
Fauntleroy Park, Schmitz Park and Orchard Street Ravine Parks are all more quiet and more isolated.
They are free of sports facilities, picnic shelters and noisy activities (less off leash dogs).
Continued avoidance of acknowledging the long term use as an active area of the park with facilities for children, teens and adult group sports indicates an agenda to eliminate them also?
Can’t we have both?

Atheist April 25, 2024 (6:43 pm)

I’m with Stewart. Find a vacant lot by Boeing Field, or in the industrial district for the pickleball court. For that matter, do this with all high impact activities rather than degrading the few remaining green spaces we have left.

DefBird April 25, 2024 (7:39 pm)

Strong statement of purpose Atheist!
A manifesto for Lincoln Park to returned to greenspace.
Does this mean the elimination of cross country meets, bicycles, Colman Pool, beach access, the removal the troll, swing sets, the shutdown and removal of restrooms, shelters, picnic tables, barbecues, benches, children’s play areas, zip line wading pool, baseball field, soccer pitch, horseshoe pits, etc?
Let’s get that online petition up!

Atheist April 25, 2024 (7:57 pm)

Last time I checked, going to the public restroom is not a high impact activity. Nor are most of the things you listed above.

Greg April 26, 2024 (1:52 pm)

I think the best part of this whole argument is that there are several folks who are vehemently against pickleball in Lincoln Park due to the various impacts on wildlife, yet they are out in the park every single day with their dogs running around off-leash, barking and what not. You’re never going to convince me it is about noise when I hear the same dog barking non-stop almost every single day in that area.

Stewart Wechsler April 28, 2024 (9:34 am)

Just visited my brother and sister-in-law. I knew that my sister-in-law just loved pickleball, and was interested what she would say about the proposal to put courts in Lincoln Park. I expected her to defend the pickleball proposal. I was then reminded that she had gotten seriously injured while playing, taking a long time to recover (though never completely). I understand the reason the Lincoln Park tennis courts were abandoned over 20 years ago (the site proposed for new pickleball courts), was that all of the leaves dropped on the court from surrounding trees made the court slippery and dangerous. My sister-in-law thought the idea of pickleball courts in Lincoln Park was a terrible idea, both for Lincoln Park as a natural area, and as a safe place to play. The long carrying, highly irritating noise would already be too much of a degradation of the richness of Lincoln Park’s natural environment, but will the pickleball people now want the trees, close enough for their leaves to blow onto the courts, to be cut, to make them safe? This is all the more reason that the next courts should go in an
industrial area, where there are already few to no trees to cut down. Cutting the trees would really be too great a cost to Lincoln’s natural wealth to bear to accommodate the people now engulfed by this recent pickleball craze, that came in so quickly, and will likely be the next passing fad! My sister-in-law also said that she was really turned off by the politics of this highly organized group demanding more places to play, at the expense of everyone else that either plays tennis, or of the neighbors that have to hear the nasty sound of hard ball against hard pickleball paddle, as their home values going down together with the noise. This is much like the value of Lincoln Park as a natural area go down with the nasty sound, but the pickleball people don’t care. They say the Lincoln site is a good because it is further from houses. They just want what they want, regardless of it coming at the cost of everyone around their courts. (As a naive 20 year-old I thought I had the right to play my music full blast, while the neighbors called the police. Only later did I realize that I didn’t have that right.)And Greg, and those of you who equate dogs barking to the unnatural sound those hard pickleball paddles hitting the hard balls, know that dogs barking are the natural sounds of an animal. I occasionally hear a dog from a distance there, and at first think it is an owl.