Here’s what police and the City Attorney said about crime/safety @ Admiral Neighborhood Association

By Tracy Record
West Seattle Blog editor

As community organizations resume regular meeting schedules for fall, the Admiral Neighborhood Association had public safety high on the agenda last night.

The meeting at Admiral Church, facilitated by ANA president Joanie Jacobs, had two major guests – the Southwest Precinct‘s new third-watch commander, and City Attorney Ann Davison.

POLICE: Lt. Joe Hadley now oversees the 7 pm to 5 am shift (“third watch”) and said he most recently worked with the Office of Police Accountability. He said they’re bringing back the Community Police Team (an officer with that assignment accompanied him). Lt. Hadley opened the floor quickly to Q&A.

First question: How’s the staffing? “It’s rough,” he replied. The goal remains to hire about 100 officers a year “but I don’t thin we’re going to make that this year.” The 4/10 schedule change has made SPD more attractive for “laterals” – trained officers coming from other police departments. “Our previous schedule was horrible” (four days on, two days off). “The chief has made it a priority to improve morale, improve retention, entic(e) folks to come work here.” The recent consent-decree announcement isn’t going to change anything short-term, he said.

Overall, the SPD guests said, stats through the end of August show burglaries down from last year, while auto thefts continue to rise. If you have a theft-prone Kia or Hyundai, they still have steering-wheel locks at the precinct (the official giveaways are over, so we’re checking on how you can get one now). Another attendee brought up the uptick in car thefts and armed robberies. “Those are really scary crimes,” she said, describing herself as a Kia owner who is “super concerned about why I can’t just park my car on the street.” Reply: “The Kias are stolen so they can do another crime. They know we can’t chase after them. …” That’s because of state law. “We’re behind the 8-ball with this.”

The police reps stressed it again: Report, report, report. Call 911. Don’t call the non-emergency number – the same people answer both anyway; call 911 and they’ll route you. ANA president Jacobs, who manages a local business, reiterates they have been told to report everything, because police need the data for reasons including staffing allocation – “if the numbers are down, they’re not going to give the Southwest Precinct more officers.” Because they’re so busy running from call to call, it may take a while to get to a report of something not happening right now but: “Whatever you call about, it’s going to get stacked in our queue ….” (which is determined by dispatchers).

Another question was from a resident in the <strong>Madison Middle School/ex-Schmitz Park (currently Alki) Elementary vicinity, about a chronic speeding problem, especially morning and afternoon commute. Lt. Hadley said he’d see if there’s anything they can do if there’s officer availability – “unfortunately we don’t have a Traffic Unit any more” so they can’t just summon a motorcycle officer to, he said dryly, “change people’s lives.”

Someone else asked about speed cameras’ status. That’s up to the City Council approving funding when SDOT requests it. (No proposal has gone to them yet, though – that’s likely in the next city budget cycle, which starts in a few weeks.) Have the speed cushions/humps made a differencr? No quantifiable answer on that.

CITY ATTORNEY ANN DAVISON: She was accompanied by several members of her team, including Southwest Precinct Liaison Joe Everett and criminal division chief Natalie Walton-Anderson (a West Seattle resident). Davison said she’s been visiting precincts and greeted the Southwest Precinct one day at 3 am as first watch came on. She described the police/city attorney relationship as a relay team – you call, police respond, they potentially refer to her office (or the county prosecutor, in the case of felony crimes). She talked about the High-Utilizer Initiative and how her goal was a better relationship with “others in the public-safety realm.” They identified 118 people responsible for 2,400 referrals to the City Attorney’s Office – one referral might be multiple crimes. That meant lots of repeat victims, too. She said she’s been working to improve the data analysis/flow into her office so that people can really understand what’s going on – and know if things really are less safe or not. Another initiative: “Close In Time” filing decisions, dealing with a backlog of thousands of cases she says she inherited when elected (almost 2,000 cases were to be declined for prosecution so they could catch up).

She said she decided to sue Kia/Hyundai “because they made a decision to withhold anti-theft technology in their least expensive models” until 2022. And that choice meant the victims of thefts are more likely to be economically challenged to get replacements. She thinks there should be a recall. Dozens of other cities joined the lawsuit, she said, and it’s consolidated into one action in a California court. “This was one thing that we could do.”

In Q & A, Davison was asked for clarification on misdemeanors and felonies. She said a big differentiator is penalty – misdemeanors up to 90 days – gross misdemeanors (which her office also prosecutes) up to 364 days – compared to felonies (which the King County Prosecuting Attorney’s Office handles and which have higher potential penalties). Davison said her “social theory” is that “we have so much gun violence right now, so much drug use, because we’ve had such inconsistent enforcement and young people see there’s no consequence – we say ‘you should be following the rules’ and they say ‘why?'”

For further clarification, Everett says it’s up to state law to define what’s a felony – “we don’t decide.”

Walton-Anderson addressed the general community concern about crime right now, summarizing that it “feels more brazen, the crime, that’s a legitimate feeling, that data may or may not justify, but it feels that way.” She acknowledged that you might get numb to it – but reporting is key – “I support law enforcement, accountability” — and she added, without singling out any candidates, “Please pay attenton to the City Council race, the judges’ races – support your police – this district is quieter so it’s going to get less resources but report – get together to report (crimes) – be willing to be witnesses, to show up, it’s disheartening to see crime rise, even if just the brazen effects of (crimes).”

She continued, “Our goal is not conviction, our goal is the right outcome” – explaining that even if/when someone is sentenced, “it’s not the end, we have to get a re-entry plan for when they get out – if we don’t change the message that that’s all they can do, we know we’re going to see them again” Though it doesn’t work this way currently, Walton-Anderson said, earlier intervention could make a bigger difference: “If we can do it right we should be doing it at the misdemeanor level, closer to the root causes.”

An attendee asked Davison about the state law restricting police pursuits and if there are any stats on its effects. She said it’s not a focus for her, it’s more a matter of police procedure – “as prosecutor for the city, we see (results) after the fact.” Everett recommended asking the Washington Association of Sheriffs and Police Chiefs.

Where can people get misdemeanor data? Davison says quarterly reports on diversion are on the website – demographics, heat map, more. Everett also noted that SPD has a crime-data dashboard.

What’s the City Attorney Office’s budget? $45 million. That sounds like too little, suggested the attendee, and Davison agreed.

Are they seeing an uptick in mental-health-related cases? Davison called that “the number one issue we have to face in our society,” explaning that people can’t be prosecuted if they are found mentally incompetent to stand trial “because they can’t understand what they did.” She and KC Prosecuting Attorney Leesa Manion co-authored a story about the backlog at the state psychiatric hospital, “they can’t even get felony suspects in for treatment (and) the State Legislature deprioritized misdemeanor restoration” (treatment to try to restore competence so someone can stand trial). As Walton-Anderson had said, Davison also said early intervention is most important – which is why she feels it’s a mistake to pull back from intervening with misdemeanor suspects; if you don’t work with someone early, things may get worse for them and they might not ever be able to get on the right track.

Since it hadn’t come up, we asked at that point if she had a comment about the drug-crime law passed by a City Council committee earlier in the day. She didn’t have much to say – citing the late hour (it was past 8 pm by then) – but offered that she’s just glad something’s getting done.

SUMMER RECAP: ANA took a quick look back and ahead at summer events. From next year on, ANA will present the West Seattle 4th of July Kids’ Parade, with coordinator Megan Erb working with ANA to make it happen. This year was “one of the longest we’ve had in years,” she said. “It has grown and we need more help and we need to be a 501c3” – every year it costs around $3,000 and money has to be raised to cover that.

Concert series coordinator Stephanie Jordan, who is also ANA vice president, noted that the series’ return this year was a success even though only three concerts were presented because of venue uncertainty fairly late in the game. They’re not sure about next year, since Hiawatha Community Center work is still pending.

And the Admiral Funktion street festival, presented by the West Seattle Chamber of Commerce last year, was an ANA production this year for the first time; they hope to keep it going and growing, Jacobs said.

UPCOMING EVENTS: A dine-out night at Mioposto (2141 California SW) will benefit ANA on October 17th, 4-9 pm, 20 percent of the proceeds from everything sold, whether dine-in or take-out. (Next Tuesday, September 19th, Mioposto has a dine-out event to benefit Lafayette Elementary.) …. Admiral trick-or-treating will be on October 27th …. The next ANA “general gathering” will be November 14th. … Admiral Church has holiday events in the works, including another Christmas Market, and a free West Seattle Big Band concert at 3 pm December 3rd.

FIND OUT MORE ABOUT ANA – including membership (not required for participation, but dues too support the organization’s work) – at

37 Replies to "Here's what police and the City Attorney said about crime/safety @ Admiral Neighborhood Association"

  • DC September 13, 2023 (1:11 pm)

    I get that most police are decent people who want to keep the community safe. But it is hard to trust them or want to join their department when their leaders laugh about one of their own murdering a 23 year old saying her life is only worth 11k. If they wanted to show they cared, these two would be fired already and the man who mowed her down would be in jail. Until then, who can blame you for not trusting them or for people not wanting to work for them?,’had%20limited%20value.’%22

    • Mike September 13, 2023 (2:05 pm)

      Holy misinformation, Batman!

      • Mr J September 13, 2023 (2:55 pm)

        How is it misinformation? The video has been released. The more these events occur across the country the more uneasy people get with the police. 

      • PSPS September 13, 2023 (4:24 pm)

        Oh?  The body cam video is everywhere except, apparently, your information sources that specialize in mis-informing you.“Just write a check, $11,000. She was 26 anyway. She had limited value”
        is what Officer Auderer is heard saying in between laughs in his body
        camera footage.

        • Mike September 13, 2023 (7:36 pm)

          I can tell you haven’t dug deeper than the headliner news articles.  You should really dive deeper in this one.  There’s context, intent, and most of all…the entire other side talking you haven’t heard yet.  Magically this one snippet of audio/video was found out of thousands and thousands of hours of audio/video from SPD body cameras. Its almost like there’s people just trying to find anything, regardless of the full context, that can be leaked to media to bash on SPD. Imagine the stuff we’d get to hear and see if politicians and civilian oversight members were required to have AXON body cameras on. Seriously, why aren’t politicians and civilian oversight members required to abide by the same rules as police?  Those are the people that raise taxes, commit fraud and abuse power more than anyone else.  Time for them to have body cameras.

          • David September 13, 2023 (8:16 pm)

            What context could possibly justify his comments? What could the other side of that conversation be that would justify him saying that while laughing?

          • Mr J September 13, 2023 (8:37 pm)

            Well Mike, for one those people aren’t killing civilians. If you’re done boot licking you might understand that the reason they found this information is because the officer KILLED A YOUNG WOMAN in a crosswalk. What other context are we supposed to be gleaming from this, do tell.

          • Brandon September 13, 2023 (9:55 pm)

            For whatever reason I cannot reply to MR J. But Mike, I agree with your ending sentiment. We’re so quick to excuse the conditions created by our politicians claiming they aren’t harming civilians, when in actuality their policies are uniquely tied to the crime, drug epidemics, homelessness, wars (…need I go on?) leading to that.Those individuals are surveilled, legally and illegally.  It takes disregarded whistleblowers to hear little about the stuff going on. Until some other story is taken out of context for the “look here, not there”.  My coworkers are finally hearing about resurfaced stories I knew seven years ago. “How do you know so much about this?” gets old..

          • WrongAgain September 14, 2023 (8:19 am)

            This reporting is definitely not mainstream media and if I heard him correctly, the SPD officer/union rep was the one who turned over the footage immediately because he knew that there wouldn’t be any legal consequences for it compared to “loosing a body camera”.

  • Lagartija Nick September 13, 2023 (1:47 pm)

    A few thoughts:1. Kudos to the City Attorney for going after Kia/Hyundai. It’s a shame it takes lawsuits to get businesses to do the right thing. And before the “won’t somebody think about the poor businesses” crowd jumps in, has anybody else noticed we never hear about catalytic converter thefts anymore since the state decided to go after the businesses that were buying that stolen property.2. The fact that an SPD officer was doing 70+ in a 25 mph zone and struck and killed a pedestrian in a crosswalk is precisely why the state disallowed high speed pursuits and rightfully so.3. There is plenty of money and incentives for increased staffing. But who wants to join a police force whose union leadership callously laughs about the death of the aforementioned dead pedestrian. Would you want to work with/for people like that? I sure wouldn’t.

    • Mel September 13, 2023 (2:55 pm)

      SPDs hiring struggles have nothing to do with the guild or fellow employees and their bad behavior. I can tell you that as an insider with certainty. 

      • David September 13, 2023 (8:17 pm)

        That seems bad, maybe it should? 

  • MW September 13, 2023 (2:34 pm)

    As someone who has been hung up on by 911 a lovely female dispatcher, I can say this info is confusing as I took solace in the fact that we have non-emergency numbers. Property management did nothing (was the weekend) though it directly involved a previous tenant with history of harassing me & literally threatening my life, having literally spent the night inside the building by the exit which prompted me to call for emergency help so I could leave the property safely. Cops came 3+ hours later. This really affected me feeling like I could get help if needed…again, told myself maybe if I had called a non-emergency number I could’ve avoided the trauma of feeling helpless. Again, confusing. I’m prepared to take matters in my own hands before I put myself through that again. 

  • Jort September 13, 2023 (2:52 pm)

    What members of the police union have vocalized so clearly (when they think nobody is listening) is their dripping disdain and contempt for the citizens they are charged with serving. Their “plight” is the same as so many of those who bemoan “cancel culture.” Mostly what these people want is the total freedom to  say and do whatever they want, and to hear zero criticism about it. From anybody. They also want fealty and obedience from the public they, again, are charged with serving. And they’re clearly telling the public, “give us your unadulterated praise and adoration or else we simply will not protect you.” SPD has some of the highest paid officers in this country. Our politicians, much to the disbelief of internet comments sections, more or less folded in half like wet paper towels, falling over themselves to talk about how much they love and adore the police after a brief flirtation with the concept of police accountability during an generationally-unique social upheaval. The issue isn’t money, or resources, or schedules, or whatever. There is a blank check for cops just waiting for them. It’s that these police — the police whose elected union leadership literally devalues our fellow citizens’ lives — demands that we worship them. In their minds, then, perhaps they can talk about protecting us. The application of the government monopoly on the use of violence is an enormous responsibility. These union leaders clearly are incapable of handling it. To see so many people fall over themselves, cravenly, desperately trying to ingratiate themselves to these mob bosses is just disgusting and humiliating. It will never be enough for them. 

    • Brandon September 13, 2023 (4:00 pm)

      So… what you’re saying is we need to go dissolve the unions? Because then the bad apples will be easier to weed out?  Cool! Now let’s apply that logic to education… Or is that somehow apples and oranges?

      • PSPS September 13, 2023 (4:26 pm)

        Teachers don’t murder the city’s residents.

        • Brandon September 13, 2023 (6:14 pm)

          If its Kias fault autos are getting stolen… and all cops are bad… is it a reach to blame the schools for adolescent criminals?I’m struggling to keep up with the cognitive dissonance. These arguments are falling apart across the daily threads.

        • WW Resident September 14, 2023 (5:50 pm)

          Well John Hopkins states that roughly 250,000 die each year due to medical malpractice and negligence. The police shoot and kill roughly 1,000 people a year according to The Washington Post. Even if some shootings aren’t reported, it’s no where near 250,000 people a year killed because of negligence or worse.Should we defund the medical industry? Should we vilify the entire medical staff throughout the United States because some doctors/nurses/technicians were negligent or worse doing their job? Jort literally over generalized all police say/think a certain way because one guy self reported saying something that could be taken as unsympathetic 

          • Jort September 15, 2023 (7:58 am)

            Is is really so hard to understand that there is a difference between medical errors and mistakes that cause deaths and the standards to which we hold police accountable, due to their unique position as the exclusive holders of the monopoly right to administer violence in support of public safety? Why is it always “what-about-this, what-about-this?” We hold police to a higher standard than nurses, and the reasons why should be pretty gosh darn obvious, right?! “What about nurses?! What about teachers unions?! What about, what about, what about …” How many times do we have to see this — from elected union leadership, no less! — to realize that this. is. an. actual. problem. And pointing out that it’s a problem doesn’t mean you’re Kshama Sawant trying to lose Democrats all their elected seats. It means the police can and should do better, and we need to take control of them. 

          • WW Resident September 18, 2023 (8:08 pm)

            Thank you Jort for proving my point on your thinking and your continued disdain for police. So the medical industry killing of 250,000 people annually due to negligence and malpractice (which John Hopkin’s separates from negligence and often means illegal practice) according to John Hopkin’s, shouldn’t be held to the same standard as police who actually may have to use deadly force to protect and/or save others, but kills a tiny fraction comparitivelyand most often is justified, so the numbers of negligence or worse is actually even lower than the overall killings done in the medical industry. Yes, 250,000 innocent people killed shouldn’t even be in the same conversation as roughly 1,000 people shot and killed which are mostly justified. Wow 

  • Flivver September 13, 2023 (3:19 pm)

    For those complaining about police there’s an easy fix: Don’t call them. Are they perfect? NOPE. But it’s clear you and your friends are doing NOTHING to stop crime except complaining the police aren’t. You can’t have it both ways.

    • Brynn September 14, 2023 (5:40 pm)

      So what do you mean by both ways? We are rightfully upset that a cop ran over a 23 year old woman in a crosswalk and laughed about it later. We are absolutely allowed to hold them accountable and deserve to have it “both ways”. It is not a radical idea to demand they do their jobs AND not kill us in the process. 

  • CARGUY September 13, 2023 (3:33 pm)

    This is so weird to me. Don’t get me wrong, I think this really sucks for anyone that has a Hyundai/KIA affected. Reason to sue: “because they made a decision to withhold anti-theft technology in their
    least expensive models” until 2022. And that choice meant the victims
    of thefts are more likely to be economically challenged to get
    “Kia and Hyundai chose to cut corners and cut costs at the expense of
    their customers and the public. As a result, our police force has had to
    tackle a huge rise in vehicle theft and related problems with already
    stretched resources. Now Seattle taxpayers must shoulder the burden of
    the increase in theft,” said Davison. “Kia and Hyundai need to take responsibility for the public safety hazard that they created.”
    I’d think if there was a tax funded department to penalize thefts, that would reduce occurrence of said thefts. (hmmm..) I think what Ann Davidson is saying is, “since City Attorney is not doing a good job at charging criminals for breaking the law, the result is our constituents taking the burden of our inaction’s”Why does the city attorney not fight to make it a law for all automakers to require these engine immobilizers?  Its been required in Europe for all new cars since the 90’s. This is not defective, or a safety issue, therefore is not required to be recalled. This type of anti theft device is not required in the USA, the option to purchase a vehicle with or without this engine immobilizer is a consumer choice. It makes it sounds like Hyundai/KIA are the sole entity responsible for the thefts… instead of you know…. the actual people committing the crime.

    • Brandon September 13, 2023 (4:21 pm)

      Imagine the government phasing out internal combustion engines against the consumers choice. Then subsidizing EVs at the expense of those paying for ICEs because the EVs are loss drivers, and manufacturers need to raise the prices of the other autos to breakeven. Forcing Kia to do something unrequired makes perfect sense in this context. Par for the course with that logic. Yet another example government trying to fix an opined wrong, with an ill perceived right. Meanwhile, car theft is already illegal. But criminals care less, that’s the true problem.

      • CARGUY September 13, 2023 (5:37 pm)

        I don’t see how that logic relates at all. I’m pro consumer protection laws and mandates that improve the safety and health of the community. Going after a company that is in-line with current laws and regulations seems like a giant waste of time and money when the system in place (laws and regulations) don’t change. They were not forced to omit the engine immobilizer from these models. They chose not to include to make the vehicle more appealing because of the lower price. Companies raising prices because of laws and mandates is just capitalism, they can decide to raise prices to “break even” or not raise prices and cut costs elsewhere to maintain profits, or (gasp) make less profit!I do wonder how different crime would be if the repercussions were enough to prevent people from criminal activities. What would it take to make a potential criminal think twice before the first time, or any other time. (If you think I’m anti car, I enjoy my bike, can’t wait to get an electric vehicle for commuting and love to bring my fun car to the track and go fast)

        • Brandon September 13, 2023 (6:43 pm)

          Huh? It’s completely relatable, I mean you say it there. “Going after a company that is in-line with current laws and regulations seems like a giant waste of time and money when the system in place (laws and regulations) don’t change.”  So why are auto manufacturers being forced to omit ICEs in place of EVs when they chose not to make those vehicles because consumers wanted more appealing vehicles at lower prices?  How are those two things not identical?A bit about capitalism: Subsidies are detrimental to it obviously. A business would drop that line, and consumer demand would allow competition to drive prices down. Not force prices higher because of forced demand.  Companies with profits would innovate to compete, demand would shift, and competition would drive prices down again.  You’d probably get to EVs at the same time with less taxpayer money wasted, and if not, it wasn’t by the will of the people who are driving demand.If Kia were to fix the problem, it would be due to the people choosing not to buy their autos anymore. Kia would quickly course correct or else settle with lower sales, but it’d be their choice because it’s a product they provide at will.At the end of the day, we can’t conflate their choice with culpability or else nothing makes sense anymore.

          • CARGUY September 14, 2023 (6:25 pm)

            I think the time, money and effort should be to change regulations to force auto makers to have these immobilization devices standard on cars sold in the US, just like how there are CAFE standards that force auto manufacturers to sell more efficient vehicles. 

          • Brandon September 14, 2023 (11:30 pm)

            Carguy, so take away the choice of the business, and inherently take away the choice of the individual by principal. In practical sense, at the expense of the poor, change the rules that the rich can afford.  I don’t know about you, but everybody I know is feeling the weight of that time, money and effort every day we follow this impracticality.

  • Admiral-2009 September 13, 2023 (5:00 pm)

    PSPS – yes a bad apple teacher may not murder anyone but could lead to failed outcomes for some students that ultimately costs social challenges.

  • Pdavis September 13, 2023 (6:20 pm)

    Thanks for the thorough report here.  Obviously, we need to start getting a stronger focus on the state level/state legislature, and who we elect for governor as well as legislators..  the police have been shackled regarding pursuit, and that was the state legislature.  They are doing a horrible job on many levels, so we really need to pay attention if we expect to reduce the crime and to enhance safety..  it’s all about who we elect…and we need to get very serious about prosecution, so there is a consequence instead of a hand slap a smile.  

  • Ws resident September 13, 2023 (6:33 pm)

    Went to Target today for the first time in a month and was saddened to see a ton of their hygiene products locked up behind glass (several aisles). It’s ridiculous that business have to do that to toothpaste, razors, etc. due to theft.  I sure hope Seattle doesn’t continue the path towards San Francisco and then a bunch of business will move out of the area because of poor choices by our representatives that allow people to keep on stealing and committing crimes over and over again.

  • MK September 13, 2023 (7:10 pm)

    I was in attendance at the meeting. Great coverage WSB. Thank you for attending and sharing the information. This was my first ever meeting. I’d also encourage anyone to attend. It’s interesting to see and hear this information first hand from SPD and the City Attorney. 

  • Alki mom September 13, 2023 (11:35 pm)

    Sadly, every time we’ve needed the police in the last few years, they were not helpful, not available, dismissive… I’m not in the Defund the police camp, but it’s really hard to trust them or see the value they are bringing. Sure, there’s not enough staff, but that’s not all, It feels like there needs to be a complete overhaul of their priorities. This recap (thanks WSB) doesn’t give much hope.

    • Nadmiral September 14, 2023 (9:57 am)

      Sorry, but I’m gonna have to totally disagree with you here.  Do keep in mind that we have tied the hands of the police: underfunded and understaffed .unable to do needed pursuit. Watching criminals be put right back out on the street by lenient judges.  YOU try risking your life daily in that scenario. …so they are understaffed:   trying to do that job in a dangerous environment when there aren’t enough people for THEM to even to be safe.  On the contrary, I have found my interfaces with the police to be outstanding.  They are definitely my heros !  Risking their lives every day. They could be killed for nothing:  just simply being a cop.  They deserve full funding and to be generously compensated for the terrifying environment that they work within.  We need to fully fund  the police so that we have enough of them to start handling the out of control crime in our area.   We need to vote in people that are going to enhance prosecution and accountability for the juvenile gang members and other blatant loser criminal’s we now are being over run by…..Also, getting NEW people in the LEGISLATURE and Governor on a state level that will turn this state back to the way it used to be:  a place that we are proud of, and much more safe than now. Thank you to the dedicated officers of our police department!  We need to RECLAIM  Seattle

  • Marcus September 14, 2023 (5:55 am)

     It is like pulling weeds.  Let them go to seed, like the defund crowd allowed, and it takes a long time to get rid of the weeds.  We complain about the police, justified in certain circumstances, then with reduced numbers we criticize their performance or paint all police with the exceptions.  The political climate created our police staffing issues which steam from the city council members elected by the general public.  Don’t blame the police!!!!!!

  • Socialcontract September 14, 2023 (7:33 am)

    I think everybody could learn a lot by studying or experiencing firsthand how policing (and associated lawmaking, oversight, and adjudicating) operates in other countries. There are other ways of doing it that people seem happier with.

    • Nadmiral September 15, 2023 (9:43 am)

      I think you’re back in time about your perceptions of not needing police/law enforcement. Even countries in Europe that used to be pretty crime. Free are struggling like we are.  I think it’s really that we have glamorized being a thug…. being violent…. not taking responsibility for a peaceful culture by how we train young minds.  We did this to ourselves and now we need to get straightened out.  It’s gotten ugly and we need to own it… and we need to put these losers in jail

Sorry, comment time is over.