County budget cuts: Would you pay more sales tax to avoid them?

(Photo by Greg Gilbert/Used with permission of the Seattle Times – added 7:19 pm)
ORIGINAL 12:23 PM REPORT: In a few minutes, King County Executive Dow Constantine and a flotilla of other elected county leaders including Sheriff Sue Rahr and Prosecuting Attorney Dan Satterberg are meeting the media to talk about “an option for preserving current levels of public safety and health services.” According to several advance reports including this one from our regional-news partners at the Seattle Times, the proposal will ask voters to approve a potential sales-tax increase. We’ll add more details as the announcement is made. ADDED 1:03 PM: The Times story is now updated with details – the proposal is to raise the sales tax 0.2 percent, with 60% of the money going to the county, 40% to cities. 1:12 PM: And the official news release is now on the county website. They’re proposing that this go to voters in August. A public hearing on the proposal is set for the County Council’s budget committee at 1:30 tomorrow afternoon; this has to be finalized by May 25th to make it onto the August ballot. This document shows how the county would spend the money it thinks the tax increase would raise.

clark5080 April 28, 2010 (12:34 pm)

Roll Eyes

Carson April 28, 2010 (12:44 pm)

My question would be, as a Seattle resident, how would it effect me? We have our own library, our own police, etc.

WSB April 28, 2010 (12:59 pm)

The criminal-justice system beyond police covers ALL of King County, not just the unincorporated area. Prosecutors, defenders, judges, jail staffers. And this also involves the health department, which also is county-run and covers ALL of the county, including within the city limits.

Skeeter April 28, 2010 (1:02 pm)

Instead of raising taxes or cutting services I think it is time for the government (school, police, fire, library, etc) to consider doing what the private sector has done. Cut pay in a responsible and thoughtful manner and cut benefits in a responsible and thoughtful manner. That way taxpayers can receive the same services for less money. Nothing draconian, but a 5% pay cut and/or 10% benefit cut goes a LONG way. Is it painful? Yes. But all of us in the private sector have already lived through it. That’s part of life.

Carson April 28, 2010 (1:07 pm)

Skeeter, that’s a great idea, but most County workers have union contracts. I have a friend who works for the county, I think they are close to the bone already.

Carrie P April 28, 2010 (1:08 pm)

Pay a few pennies on select purchases–bottled water, candy, etc.–in exchange for police and public health services? Well worth it! People don’t realize how important these things are until they actually have to use the services.

KBear April 28, 2010 (1:31 pm)

Skeeter, if government should run more like the private sector, how about if they start charging you each time you use a government service? Like when you drive on a public road, or walk on a sidewalk, or check out a library book, or call 911, or cast a ballot in an election? There’s a limit to how much can be cut, and at some point there needs to be a way to increase revenue just to provide a basic level of service. It doesn’t necessarily mean YOUR taxes have to be raised, but SOMEONE will have to pay more, whether it’s wealthier people paying an income tax, tourists paying hotel tax, drinkers of crappy beer, or everybody paying more sales tax.

Kayleigh April 28, 2010 (1:40 pm)

I haven’t had my pay and benefits cut 5-10%, so I sure as heck wouldn’t ask county staff to do so.
As usual, Americans want what they want, but they don’t want to pay *gasp* taxes for it.

clark5080 April 28, 2010 (1:46 pm)

I have a union contract also but that didn’t stop the Times from renegotiating and gettign 15% back from us. It was either that or loose jobs

nuni April 28, 2010 (1:56 pm)

Well, getting a 2% pay cut is better than getting laid off.

WestSide45 April 28, 2010 (1:58 pm)

Through no fault of my own I am living on 50% of what I previously made. To ask the county to slash payroll is not unreasonable. There were 1493 county employees who “earned” over $100000 in 2009. Over 1000 others made over $90000 (public records available to peruse). They all have better benefits than most of the rest of us, also. So, I guess I would not support any additional taxes, some of which would go to pay their inflated salaries. I would rather go without whatever services they propose would be lost without more money for them to waste.

Kara April 28, 2010 (1:59 pm)

Skeeter, I work for the city for the Seattle Public Library and we have already taken cuts. Starting late 2009 we had to start closing some branches two days a week, take a week furlough for 2009 and 2010, no cost of living increase for this year and again for the 2010 budget we have to do a 3% decrease in our budget…I can’t even imagine what they will have to do next and we are a small part of the city employees…we all really have to look at the bigger picture. I don’t want a tax increase, but I want to keep my job, my co-workers, and give access to the library’s resources to my amazing patrons so I’ll take one for the team.

old timer April 28, 2010 (2:03 pm)

Perhaps not directly relevant to the question but,
it would be interesting for me to know the result of:
all the county’s expenditures for a year,
divided by
the county population,
to know how much
the county costs on a per person basis.

owen April 28, 2010 (2:06 pm)

I’d pay more taxes to avoid deep budget cuts. But I’d rather have an state income tax than sales tax.

md April 28, 2010 (2:15 pm)

I’d pay more taxes for public safety, definitely.

Kris April 28, 2010 (2:18 pm)

I agree completely with Owen!!! Don’t forget Metro, parks and other wonderful services and facilities we make use of and sometimes take it all for granted. Gates Sr. has the right idea for the whole state.

Skeeter April 28, 2010 (2:32 pm)

Thank you Kara. What I am proposing is that government workers work the same amount (hence no reduced taxpayer services) but for less money and less benefits. That is what many, many folks in the private sector (including me) have done. I am a college graduate with good skills. I took BOTH a pay cut and a benefit cut this year. I know it is difficult, but we have to face a new reality that the generous salaries and benefit packages we’ve received in better times have to be scaled back. Raising taxes is not the answer. Cutting taxpayer services is not the answer. Scaling back salaries and benefits is the answer.
I propose this with all sincerity and respect for the hard working government employees who perform important services for our community.

Kayleigh April 28, 2010 (2:45 pm)

“With sincere respect for your hard work, I propose you live on 10% less money and crappier benefits, because I base my world view only on my personal biography, and I made less money, so you should too.”
.
That would be funny, except that you’re serious.

nuni April 28, 2010 (2:58 pm)

even 2% pay cut would make a big difference.

Skeeter April 28, 2010 (3:07 pm)

Kayleigh, I think you miss my point. Many, many people in the Seattle area have taken pay and benefit cuts in the past 18 months. Trust me – I am not alone.

Are you proposing that government employees should be immune to pay and benefit cuts?

Suits are not boring April 28, 2010 (3:16 pm)

Skeeter, the non-union staff at the County have been taking salary cuts and Furloughs. I also know that Exec Constantine is meeting with people inside and outside the County to discuss lower benefit costs. When Dow came into office, his staff was reduced from the size of the previous Exec’s staff and their salaries were cut by 10%. He is prohibited by law from changing his own salary, but donated 10% back to the County.

The union employees will have to be handled through negotiations and may be open to this.

Kayleigh April 28, 2010 (3:17 pm)

No, I get your point, Skeeter. You suffered so you want others to suffer. I think that’s a crappy world view. It’s like saying, “I had swine flu, so nobody else should get a shot.” But you butter it with “but I respect you all”, which is the really funny part.
.
If you don’t get that the middle class needs to band together now, today, in order to save itself, well, then you deserve what you get (which is the eventual collapse of the middle class, which has already begun, IMO.) Unfortunately, you’re dragging the rest of us down with you.

Carrie P April 28, 2010 (3:22 pm)

I think what Kara and others are saying is that County and other government employees have ALREADY taken cuts, too, via unpaid furlough, increased insurance deductibles, no cost of living increases, etc. Most employees are not making the 90-100K cited above

JD April 28, 2010 (3:40 pm)

I cringe every time I pay our high sales tax as it is. Many of us make do with what we have, why can’t the city/county do the same? Why are they not held accountable? If it means cutting services then so be it.

Carson April 28, 2010 (3:47 pm)

Maybe it will mean we just buy more stuff mail order and avoid paying even the little taxes we pay now….but by all means, don’t ever address the core issue of a more reliable income stream.

Jordan April 28, 2010 (3:58 pm)

As long as you don’t believe that an income tax added to our sales tax would solve anything. Look at California for an example.

Do you think that an income tax alone would be the answer? Look at Oregon, they are in worse shape than Washington.

Adding more taxes is not the answer. The city, county and state would simply spend every additional penny they got and then the next time the economy sags they would be in a crunch again and would have to grab more money. It is a never ending cycle. Ratchet up spending during good times and cry poverty during the bad times. But never, ever cut back.

AnotherIdiotInWS April 28, 2010 (4:04 pm)

Hey KBear… that’s not how “it” works.

Jeff April 28, 2010 (4:05 pm)

Fund the things everyone agrees on first, then ask for a tax increase for the other stuff. I’m tired of hearing that its always police and fire that need a tax increase. Those are the FIRST things that should get money. Ask people if they want a tax increase to pay for stupid pet projects, and I bet you get a different answer.

Skeeter April 28, 2010 (4:06 pm)

Kayleigh, I’ve complelely lost you. I have no idea where you got “I had to suffer therefore others do too.” At no point did I say I suffered. I had to adjust my lifestyle, which is difficult, but I commented that was part of life. EVERYONE must adapt to the new realities that generous pay and benefit packages of the past are not going to last forever – especially when there is high unemployment and thus a larger pool of willing job applicants.

As for me “dragging the rest of us down” in the collapse of the middle class, I’m not sure where you’re getting that. Completely separate issue from anything I have commented about.

Skeeter April 28, 2010 (4:08 pm)

@Suits are not boring – thanks for that information. I did not know that.

Carson April 28, 2010 (4:09 pm)

No, but I think an income tax is more reliable as a stream of income compared to a sales tax. Is it perfect? Nope. I would rather see a smaller, more business friendly sales tax (like 5%) and a small income tax. The sales tax we have now is very anti-business. If you lived on the OR border would you ever shop in state? I can tell you, when your income goes up and down, up and down it makes budgeting very difficult, and that’s for a family, not a government.

Skeeter April 28, 2010 (4:12 pm)

@JD – the problem with cutting services is that some of our most vulnerable citizens are in most need of those services. A lot of people can’t afford the internet, so they go to the library to use it. If the library cuts hours, then users are impacted. I’m much more interested in what “Suits” commented about negotiating for lower costs with unions.

coffee April 28, 2010 (4:58 pm)

I really don’t believe that there are enough employees to cut pay and benefits to make up the difference. If I have to pay 2 or 3 cents more for a soda, water, candy, or what ever might be taxed, I would gladly pay so that I can get the services that I might need one day.
As for 9-1-1, you already pay fees for that service via your phone bill. Unless you are getting some off the wall VoIP service, its listed on the bill. VoIP avoids paying those fees in many cases. Face it, it costs money to provide services. We keep talking about crime, etc, and it costs more and more to provide services. Take a look at Harborview, where the uninsured go. The county runs the hospital. I could go on and on. I suggest that people do the research before they say cut wages and benefits. County employees have gotten cuts already in many cases.

Meghan April 28, 2010 (5:18 pm)

I’m about as liberal as they come, but I just don’t think any raise in the sales tax will pass these days. People are just feeling too stretched as it is. It’s not fair anyway. Sales taxes are regressive; the poorer you are, the more you suffer. The only way to make our state tax system more fair (like Oregon’s, e.g.) is an income tax (at least for higher income people) coupled with a reduction in the sales tax. I was really disappointed that the income tax referendum proposed by Bill Gates Sr. didn’t include that. Now that would pass.

Julie April 28, 2010 (5:32 pm)

Yes, I would much prefer to pay more in sales tax and not lose services; it’s a regressive tax, but it’s also regressive to cut services.

Of course, we really should shift to a more progressive tax system, which is what http://www.yeson1077.com/ is about.

Kayleigh April 28, 2010 (5:33 pm)

Skeeter, you made less money and adjusted your lifestyle. That’s a good thing….how?
.
What’s the end game to all of us sacrificing, lowering our lifestyle, cutting back, making do with less, getting crappier health care, etc?
When do you think we’ll get all these sacrifices returned to us? Magically, one day, we’ll all get 25% raises to make up for the years of sacrifice? I seriously doubt it.
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I’m personally making 1.5% more than I was three years ago, paying more for worse health care, working harder and expected to work harder yet. I resent this. It sucks. But telling a county employee that they, too, should do this doesn’t improve my situation at all.
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I’m trying to get you to see the bigger picture, which is that we have to stand together to protect middle class wages and benefits. It has *everything* to do with what we’re talking about.

Amanda April 28, 2010 (6:38 pm)

Maybe increasing the sales tax will make people use craigslist more, or a service like that. Then the city/state will miss out on the taxes that second time around. A 10% sales tax doesn’t give you much money if people are working around it. When I moved to Seattle 10 years ago, the sales tax was 8.6%, now it’s 9.8% and the deficits are even bigger. Something is not working here folks. Stop taxing and start cutting the fat! I am furious that libraries have to close two weeks a year, but then they build a huge ramp going from White Center to Greenbridge? How much did that cost? Where is all the money going???

wally April 28, 2010 (7:29 pm)

Here is a good list. Enough with the taxes! Use the money you already get a bit more effectively.

Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
CDL License Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Pet License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Gasoline Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
Road Usage Taxes (truckers)
Sales Taxes
School Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Toll Bridge Taxes Toll
Tunnel Taxes
Trailer Registration
Tax Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers’ Compensation Tax

smitty April 28, 2010 (7:47 pm)

Hey Kayleigh,

I have an idea. Cancel your healthcare insurance-thus saving LOTS of money-wait until you get diagnosed with something and THEN sign up for healthcare insurance!

Those greedy bastards can’t deny you – it’s awesome!

Glenda April 28, 2010 (9:16 pm)

I love my West Seattle cohorts! After reading the ridiculous comment section in the PI and Times about this issue, which can be summarized as “fire all government employees, nobody would notice.” it is so nice to come here and see actual, reasoned discussion about this. People who actually appreciate government services. I agree there are a lot of taxes, I don’t know what the best answer is, but the point is you are talking about it like real people.

For the record, I am a city employee and we have had a lot of cuts and are already working with far less resources to keep services going. My big fear is we’ll cut programs now and layoff people that we’ll just want back again when times are better. I’m hoping we can do more of a “freeze” on some services and try to budget more realistically in the future for good AND bad times. But I hope we can keep as many services as possible.

Amanda April 28, 2010 (10:04 pm)

@Wally! That’s quite the list, and it’s kinda sickening really. I’d still like to see where all the money is actually going… Do you know where I can find that list? ;)

shane April 28, 2010 (10:49 pm)

Kayleigh, you are lucky. Our household income is 55% of 2008(private sector), and we have no hope of recovering that. I don’t know the answer, I just know that I cant give up any more.

Kayleigh April 29, 2010 (5:17 am)

Shane, I am lucky compared to others, but am not going to fall into the trap of being grateful for scraps. We all deserve better. We used to *have* better.

shane April 29, 2010 (6:06 am)

I’m 43, last time my w2 was this low I was in my 20’s. This is a permanent change. All I’m saying is that if I have to cut 45%(and I’m not alone in that), its hard to stomach that govt has to continually grow. Do they have no empathy for the governed? I would be THRILLED to be working 60 hrs a week for 1.5% more than my 08 income….

Enid April 29, 2010 (7:03 am)

I support an income tax in combination with a lowered sales tax. The threat of service cuts feels like blackmail to me, especially when the police chief goes on tv saying that no crime short of murder will be investigated if the tax hike is not approved. The problem, as I see it, is not excess programs or services, but waste at every level of government. I think it is time we abandoned “too big to fail” policies, including those that apply to our own government. Americans have been brainwashed into automatically responding to these fear tactics, and it is time we demanded some accountability.

Kayleigh April 29, 2010 (7:24 am)

Shane, I’m not thrilled. I’d rather go back to working less hard and having more time and energy for my real life, having good medical coverage, 6% a year raises, etc. Wouldn’t you?
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Americans have become a nation of abused children, begging for scraps and believing we should be grateful for them. We talk all tough on the Internet about holding government accountable and personal responsibility and getting all indignant about government waste and corporate excess and all that other nonsense. But nothing really changes–we just accept less and less from government and business. We have no one to blame but ourselves.

downer April 29, 2010 (7:51 am)

Here’s an idea – try only speaking for yourself. Unnecessary advocacy isn’t helping…

Kara April 29, 2010 (2:42 pm)

Skeeter, wouldn’t furloughs and no cost of living increase be pay cuts?

shane April 30, 2010 (8:18 am)

“Shane, I’m not thrilled. I’d rather go back to working less hard and having more time and energy for my real life, having good medical coverage, 6% a year raises, etc. Wouldn’t you?”

Outside of good medical coverage I have never had any of those things. Raises were based on merit, hours worked were a function of the amount of business there was and my desire to excel at my job (see merit based raises).

Am I pissed that this late in life a very financially rewarding career has evaporated, that my peak earning years are behind me, that I am back in school seeking yet another degree? Sure, this wasn’t what I had planned for my life. However, it is simply the way it is and crying in my beer, writing my legislators, or simply bitching will change nothing.

The way I see it, I have 2 options. I can sit around, expect government and my fellow taxpayers to take care of me and complain they are not doing enough…. OR I can look at my situation, re educate, maybe relocate, work hard and start over.

I suspect you would prefer the former while I have chosen the latter. We are simply fundamentally different people and I guess that’s what makes the world an interesting place.

Sorry, comment time is over.