Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Traffic circles/Round abouts – listen up!
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May 15, 2012 at 6:06 pm #603278
beaglenutMemberWest Seattle – listen up! It scares the bejesus out of me how we have so many traffic circles and no one understands what to do with them. Take this as a mean old man shaking his fist in the air if you want to (I’m actually not even 30) – but this needs to be said…
*You drive in a traffic circle counter-clockwise – always! Just because you want to turn left, it doesn’t mean the rules don’t apply to you (you’re going to end up killing someone).
*The driver already in the circle has right of way. Too many times I’ve seen people force their way in and cut someone off that’s already in it – or the driver that’s already in it come to a complete stop because they’re not sure what the approaching driving is going to do (not that I blame them).
*Signal… It goes without saying that you should signal when you enter and when you leave the traffic circle (I would think most peoples cars aren’t indicator equipped if I didn’t know any better).
I hope at least one person finds this post helpful. I’m sorry if it comes off as a rant, but it had to be said… Be careful out there folks.
May 15, 2012 at 7:01 pm #758325
queseraMemberAmen! We just moved to Highland Park and it’s like the land of no traffic circle knowledge. I’ve never seen so many people completely disregard the rules of the road. Car to the right? They have no idea what that means. Car already in the circle? Irrelevant to them. Turn signal? Why bother?
It’s almost comical.
May 15, 2012 at 7:22 pm #758326
ThistlemistMemberGreat reminders… the only caveat I would add is that there are actually times were slowing/ stopping while you’re in the circle to let a different car enter is needed. This may be very site specific to the traffic circle in front of the West Seattle Library, but as parking is allowed on both sides of 42nd, if your heading north and a car is coming down south during peak parking hours (weekends, evenings, etc…), there is no room what so ever for both cars to pass… it is better for everyone if you slow a little, let them enter so that you can continue on forward… so please, if your following behind someone give them some room and use your aggressive driving skills… look ahead a little… but then that is something that could be said anywhere on the road :-)
May 15, 2012 at 7:22 pm #758327
FlyonthewallMemberSorry Beaglenut but it IS legal to turn left in front of a traffic circle unless there are yellow divider markers on the road in front. I learned that a few years ago taking my driving test and even asked cops to confirm it. I saw a cop do it yesterday as a matter of fact.
May 15, 2012 at 7:39 pm #758328
kootchmanMemberYes indeed……. that used to be true.. but no longer is so. The city has deferred to the state. But… I am sticking with 30 years of custom. The cop made an illegal turn. My quad cab, extended PU actual cannot navigate a few traffic circles in Seattle without climbing the curb so I do turn left.
“Brian Kemper, interim city traffic engineer with the Seattle Department of Transportation, says state law doesn’t distinguish between a “neighborhood traffic circle and a larger roundabout.”
“Consequently, a driver must go counterclockwise around a traffic circle when turning left or stay to the right of the circle when proceeding straight through the intersection. However, we recognize that there are some instances when drivers turning left may need to turn in front of the circle, for example, when they are operating a large truck. Turning left in front of a traffic circle can be safely performed if the driver exercises reasonable care and yields to pedestrians, bicyclists, and oncoming traffic,” Kemper says
May 15, 2012 at 7:40 pm #758329
beaglenutMemberFlyonthewall, do you have a link to something that can back that up?
May 15, 2012 at 7:52 pm #758330
KBearParticipantKootchman is right as usual, but he also happens to be correct this time.
May 15, 2012 at 7:55 pm #758331
beaglenutMemberEdit: Thanks kootch for beating me to it!
Here’s what I found: (http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/sdotfaqs.htm#nto)
State Law does not distinguish between a traffic circle and a larger roundabout. Consequently, a driver turning left at a neighborhood traffic circle must proceed counterclockwise around the traffic circle. However, we recognize that there are instances when drivers may need to turn left before a traffic circle, such as when cars park too closely to the right side of a circle or when a driver can’t maneuver a larger vehicle around to the right. Turning left in front of a traffic circle in those instances can be safely performed if the driver exercises reasonable care and yields to pedestrians, bicyclists, and oncoming traffic
May 15, 2012 at 8:05 pm #758332
waterworldParticipantI think the reason this issue is confusing and, to some, infuriating, is that state law, which requires you to drive around to the right of a traffic circle in order to make a left turn, was written with big highway roundabouts in mind. (That’s RCW 46.61.135(3).) There is no state statute or city ordinance to clarify whether drivers have other options at traffic circles on residential streets.
Both the Seattle Department of Transportation and the Seattle Police Department recognize that neighborhood traffic circles serve a different purpose than highway roundabouts. These agencies have made public statements for many years indicating that turning left in front of a neighborhood traffic circle is not necessarily improper.
Here’s what the SDOT website says on its FAQ page:
How do I turn left at a traffic circle?
State Law does not distinguish between a traffic circle and a larger roundabout. Consequently, a driver turning left at a neighborhood traffic circle must proceed counterclockwise around the traffic circle. However, we recognize that there are instances when drivers may need to turn left before a traffic circle, such as when cars park too closely to the right side of a circle or when a driver can’t maneuver a larger vehicle around to the right. Turning left in front of a traffic circle in those instances can be safely performed if the driver exercises reasonable care and yields to pedestrians, bicyclists, and oncoming traffic.
Here’s Brian Kemper, of SDOT, quoted in a 2009 Seattle PI article:
[A] driver must go counterclockwise around a traffic circle when turning left or stay to the right of the circle when proceeding straight through the intersection. However, we recognize that there are some instances when drivers turning left may need to turn in front of the circle, for example, when they are operating a large truck. Turning left in front of a traffic circle can be safely performed if the driver exercises reasonable care and yields to pedestrians, bicyclists, and oncoming traffic.
Here’s another PI article on the subject, which quotes SPD Sgt. Sean Whitcomb:
The best advice is “when in doubt, go to the right.” But, he said, you’re unlikely to get a ticket for turning left when there is no traffic or pedestrians, and the decision doesn’t cause a collision or jeopardize safety.
“Here in Seattle, traffic circles are specifically for slowing people down in residential neighborhoods. They’re not to regulate traffic. Otherwise, there would be signage directing you to stay to the right,” he says.
Whitcomb points out that roundabouts actually have marked lanes and signs that regulate traffic. Roundabouts usually are large enough to accommodate large trucks and if you enter a roundabout with two lanes, you must yield to traffic in both the inside and outside lanes…
May 15, 2012 at 8:16 pm #758333
beaglenutMemberThat shouldn’t matter. Traffic circles in the neighborhood are like single lane roads – we can’t have people going down them in opposite directions.
May 15, 2012 at 8:55 pm #758334
WSratsinacageMemberThis comes up every 6 months. My opinion is that one stays to the right or goes around the circle not in front of it unless your vehicle cannot make it around the corner. If you turn in front of the circle then you are in the oncoming lane for the cars in front of you and to the left of you.
May 15, 2012 at 10:07 pm #758335
oddrealityParticipantJust went through my roundabout and there were three of us there at the exact same time. It went perfectly smoothly! First time ever everyone did the right thing!I could not believe it!
May 15, 2012 at 10:13 pm #758336
BostonmanMemberI come from the land of roundabouts. They don’t even phase me. People in Seattle though seem to have no idea what they are. Its almost like they drive up to them thinking its going to swallow them whole.
May 15, 2012 at 10:50 pm #758337
KimberleyParticipantHa! Oh Bostonman, Bostonman, Bostonman. Step aside, son. You hail from the lands of roundabouts? Try Milton Keynes – now that’s the land of roundabouts. I do admit that Massachusetts may be a close second, but it doesn’t hold a candle to Milton Keynes.
May 15, 2012 at 11:19 pm #758338
SmittyParticipantThe one at the intersection of Andover and Charlestown is particulary dangerous.
People heading down(east) on Charlestown like to shave off 2 seconds by turning left onto Andover without going around the circle.
On a side note, all you people that live West of California that use Charlestown to get to 35th – shame on you – it is NOT an arterial. If you are going to use it as one at least obey the speed limit.
Use the arterials!
I am going to follow you jerks home and speed through your neighborhoods……
May 16, 2012 at 3:13 pm #758339
JoBParticipanti think that “reasonable care” is the operative phrase here
May 16, 2012 at 3:24 pm #758340
hammerheadParticipantI too have a big truck and having to go right, at times, also can put whoever might behind me or even people walking in danger. I have to put my truck in reverse (as to not hit the pole in front of me) or climb over curbs or the round thing and running over what be nicely planted. (I like the fact that people make them look nice.
I do try and not have to go left but like Kotch said some times it can not be avoided.
Sorry ahead of time.
May 16, 2012 at 6:52 pm #758341
dbseaMemberI received a quiz by email from (I think) SDOT about road rules knowledge. One question asked the proper route through a traffic circle under different circumstances. When I answered that I’d turn left by taking the counter-clockwise route around the circle it scored me as wrong. Said the correct answer was to just turn left when no other vehicles were present. Wish SDOT would make up its mind.
As for arterials vs non arterials; I don’t use Charlestown but a street is a street is a street and they’re all open for business. Just use them properly by paying attention and driving within the limits and conditions.
May 16, 2012 at 7:45 pm #758342
KBearParticipantWho else here has attempted to do the right thing, driving around the circle to the right, only to be cut off and honked at by the driver behind you, who decides to turn left without driving around?
May 16, 2012 at 7:56 pm #758343
miwsParticipantKBear, they’re the same ones that would probably also honk at you for daring to actually slow down at the Yield sign! ;-)
Mike
May 16, 2012 at 7:58 pm #758344
BostonmanMemberBest not do that to me, I will stop in front of you and get out of my car to confront the person. Hell just the other day I was turning right from California onto Erskine and the guy behind me was honking for me to turn right. I got out of the car and asked him if he could see the sign that says don’t turn on red. If course you just get the passive agressive response of sorry out here.
People out here are real tough when they are locked up in their BMW’s.
May 16, 2012 at 8:17 pm #758345
MBParticipantAmen Bostonman…amen.
May 16, 2012 at 8:22 pm #758346
kootchmanMemberYa know Bostonman… I don’t get the horn thing at all. Even if the person causing the intolerable 20 second delay didn’t have a no turn on red…. the least smart thing to do is force an already confused or hesitant driver to “rush” a decision. The horn is for “emergency” use…. folks. It’s not a weapon.
May 16, 2012 at 8:34 pm #758347
miwsParticipantBostonman, Just yesterday, Downtown, three cars were waiting to turn right, as I was crossing (with the Walk light). I was walking toward them.
Dunno if it was the second, or third car, (I ASSumed the second) honked at the first car, apparently for not proceeding with their turn, which would have made it bit of a close call in my crossing.
Anyway, I just kind of looked beyond the first car, and stared at the other two, with sort of a WTF? look on my face.
One of these days, when a similar scenario comes up and I know for sure which driver honked, I’m gonna ask them, “Why the eff do you want that other driver to run me over?!?” ;-)
Mike
May 16, 2012 at 8:46 pm #758348
KBearParticipantYesterday I was honked at for yielding to an oncoming car before making a left turn. The oncoming car turned into a driveway without signaling before reaching the intersection, but how was I supposed to know they were going to do that?
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