Shoveling Sidewalks — For good or ill?

[JayDee]

I must admit, I was born in a clime where snow on the sidewalk was a pleasant fiction. For the last 12 years I have lived here. On a hill.

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“Shoveling the sidewalk is the property owner’s responsibility.” intones the City of Seattle. But as a walker, a shoveled sidewalk in hilly areas is of dubious safety in my mind. Unless you can get the snow removed entirely, or add salts or other chemicals to remove residual ice, it seems like an unshoveled sidewalk is safer. A close relative who is a lawyer says that if we alter the “natural conditions” and cause slippery icy slopes, then a property owner who shoveled the sidewalk and made it slippery by incompletely clearing it would be liable for injury.

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I appreciate those who shovel their sidewalks. It is a great goodwill gesture, and shows consideration for others. But as a scientist, I have been avoiding the shoveled sections due to the layer of ice often left behind when our snows fall on not-so-freezing sidewalks. I take to the snow-covered parking strips or after the roads are sanded, the street for my own relative safety.Perhaps after Sunday I won’t need to fret, but…

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What is the popular opinion in the WSB community? As a property owner with 60-feet of sidewalk on a snow-covered hill I favor the “let nature take it’s course, I only have so much Kosher salt” approach.

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[Cait]

I keep to the drifts – you’re right about the ice! Unless you are shoveling AND de-icing I wouldn’t bother…

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[ellenater]

I agree with you COMPLETELY. I started clearing my walk yesterday and then bit it on a cleared but packed down area. Now it’s all snowy and SAFE! Good post!!

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[PDieter]

It depends on the snow condition, length of time is stays and what the temps do during that time. There is no “one fits all”.

those side walks that are now packed snow are fine now but with a couple freeze/thaw cycles they will be really bad and the ones that are currently shoveled but “ify” will be much better, if not clear…they will certainly clear sooner.

your lawyer will also contend that if you walk on the snow and pack it down then you are also altering the natural conditions…frankly I’d sooner shove crusier’s socks in the lawyer’s mouth then listen to the finer points of legal sidewalk shoveling. ;)

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[flowerpetal]

Judges get to say who is liable and who is not. Lawyers like to think they know; and are or should be well informed. But the judge interprets what’s in the books. My sidewalks are staying snowy and compacted.

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[littlebrowndog]

Before our latest round of snow yesterday I walked each day up the hills to the Junction. I found that the unshoveled sidewalks were absolute sheer sheets of ice whereas the shoveled areas only had periodic blobs of ice that I could pick my way around. A few areas looked like they had been salted/de-iced, but most appeared to only have been shoveled. I walked safely up and down hills on the shoveled areas and was terrified walking on the non-shoveled areas. Whenever possible I walked on the parking strip when the sidewalk was not shoveled. Just my take on it.

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[Peaches]

Based on the condition of my shovelled/swept sidewalk this morning (and five years living in New Hampshire where I got to try EVERYTHING to stay vertical in the snow), gotta weigh in on the side of clearing paved areas. A quick sweep with the broom this morning and I have a bare, safe sidewalk. I think the trick is to be sure to clear all the way down to bare pavement (REALLY bare) with no snow coating–this can take some real work on long stretches of sidewalk. Once snow gets packed down on paved surfaces, it gets crazy slick and greasy (think unplowed roads) and is really hard to pry off. Maybe split the difference and clear off small areas of porch/sidewalk that you can keep swept off?

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[littlebrowndog]

Oh, and late yesterday afternoon UPS delivered our new YakTrax to go on our shoes for walking on ice and compacted snow. I saw them on the news I think on Monday, ordered them on Tuesday, and they were delivered yesterday. I saw some mail carriers wearing similar things and striding right over the compacted icy snow on the unshoveled parts of the sidewalks. Not totally on topic here, but I’ll let you know how they work out.

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[WesCAddle]

You really should clear the sidewalks and apply salt or other de-icing material. If you’ve lived or traveled to anywhere that gets considerable snow and ice in the winter it pretty obvious what to do. The ground below the compact snow and ice will warm it to slush, and the slush freezes underneath the powder hiding the ice below. Plus the uneven snow/ice/slush buildup is extremely hard on ankles …pretty easy to twist one.

My driveway/sidewalk is practically dry to the touch right now, and all I did was shovel it once after the snow stopped and applied Mortons Safety Salt. Due to sublimation, the remaining dampness will probably be dry by noon. (My mailperson sure thanked me yesterday!)

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[littlebrowndog]

Info just gleaned for dog owners: yesterday when we walked up to the Junction with our dogs, as we walked through the salted area at the bank on the corner of Alaska and California suddenly one of our 3 dogs began limping badly. I suspected it was the salt, so we walked her across the street and rubbed the pad thoroughly and then she was fine. I promptly forgot about it. Just now, in response to the advice from all of you, I salted the porch and steps. She was out in the yard while I did it. As she came back in the house she took one step up and promptly pulled a paw up and refused to walk on it. I again rubbed it dry and then she was fine. The other two dogs had no problems. I can only surmise that she has gotten a tiny nick on her pad from the icy snow and when the salt gets into it then it really stings. Since the other 2 dogs are fine I have to think it is probably a low incidence problem, but I do think we dog owners should remember that ice can cut our dog’s paws. Lesson learned for me: should have used sand or kitty litter.

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[Sue]

littlebrowndog, I’ve been using YakTrax for years. They’re good and helpful, but you’re not invincible; I did a fair amount of slipping with them earlier in the week. They do terribly on extremely thin, slick ice (think wet street that freezes over). And do not walk indoors on a marble floor with them unless you want to be on your butt. :) But having them is the reason I could leave the house during a NY/NJ winter.

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[cakeitseasy]

Have your sidewalks cleared is your civic duty.

It’s like, what, 60 feet of sidewalk or less on average? Takes like what, 20 minutes if you’re able bodied?

I’ve heard some excuses in my day, but…*raspberry*!. Science? Lawyers? You must really hate shoveling. Sure, virgin snow has some traction…but that doesn’t last long and then you really have a dangerous,icy, uneven, mess in a long cold snap.

Look,some people can’t shovel their walks (old, sick, out of town, don’t have a shovel, are from Hawaii and don’t know how, whatever…in which case, you should hire someone to do it) but others do nothing because they are used to it melting right away, or are just plain negligent or do a poor job, resulting in the aforementioned slippy/clear situation. But for the love of snow, don’t try to justify not having your sidewalk shoveled with merely a few inches on the ground (this isn’t Buffalo!). What about people who have to push wheels on sidewalks? Walkers, strollers, deliveries…wheelchairs? It takes about as much effort as clearing the car. (unless your sidewalk area is unusually large for Seattle). So… slip the neighbor teen $10 to do it if you can’t/won’t.

It’s simple really. Get out there and shovel *fresh* snow *before* it gets trampled or melty/freezy. Do a good job, and you’ll be rewarded with nice, dry, bare sidewalk. Probably won’t even need salt or sand, just maintain with sweeping until the temps go up. Voila, you’re a good citizen. Or, at least do it for the Postman, and his cold, wet feet…and wheelchairs.

btw, my walkway and sidewalk are still bone dry. Just a few tiny patches of ice on the stairway and some snow dust blowing around. No salt or sand.

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[Huindekmi]

Some of the comments on here remind of back when wearing seat belts first became mandatory. People opposed to the idea would rationalize their choice with an analogy like: “A friend of mine (alt: cousin, guy I know, guy I read about in the paper, etc.) was in an accident where a semi (or other large item) fell over onto the car. He saw it coming and dove down onto the floorboards. The car was crushed, but he came out unscathed. If he was wearing a seat belt, he wouldn’t have been able to do that. And that’s why I’ll never wear a seat belt.”

Basically, taking a rare case, citing it as the norm and justifying their behavior using that one bad example. Ignoring the fact that seat belts improve a driver’s safety in the vast number of cases.

Same basic thing here. Someone doesn’t like clearing their sidewalks and justifies it by citing the rare case above.

Walking the dog this morning, I got to see all the possible results. There were the few people who shoveled the sidewalks and put down de-icer. Those guys are great. It’s like there wasn’t a storm at all.

The next best were the people who shoveled but didn’t put down salt. There were a few scattered spots where the snow got packed down and didn’t clear off completely, but the sidewalk as a whole had much better traction. And today, now that the sun is out, the dark pavement absorbs the sunlight, warms up and clears off the last remaining bits.

Then there were the people who didn’t bother to shovel, but threw a bunch of salt into the 6″ of snow on their walks. That made an interesting mix of slush and solid ice. Seriously, this makes absolutely no sense.

And the vast majority didn’t do anything. Their walks were uneven packed snow and sheer ice that developed in areas of heavy traffic or southern exposure. Difficult to walk on, and only going to become a bigger mess tonight after the sun thaws parts and then have it refreeze even worse. If we then get a another snow storm on top of that – you’ll be taking your life into your hands trying to walk on it.

The legal advice given above is a rationalization. Nothing more.

If you don’t clear your walks and someone slips and falls, you are liable. The odds of that happening are much greater than if you had obeyed the law and cleared the walks of snow and ice. Attempting to follow the law would be taken into account as a mitigating circumstance in the one rare case cited above – likely resulting in lowered liability.

So, if you’re worried about legal liability w/r/t icy sidewalks — you’re much better off obeying the law and clearing the snow and ice from your sidewalks.

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[ellenater]

FYI, the salt also hurts the dogs feet!

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[aunteesocial]

I shovel, and sweep.

More fun and easier to walk in powdery snow, but when it packs down and turns to thick ice that’s no picnic. Plus if you shovel and if we’re lucky enough to get some clear skies with sun- the remaining smaller icy spots melt way faster than if you were to leave a bunch of packed snow.

Just go for a walk in your neighborhood in a few days to test the different theories.

I don’t do the salt route because of my dogs (they’ll lick it), but I did use a weee bit of salt up the side of my steep driveway for my mail carrier in the off chance I might receive a Christmas card!

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[KatherineL]

For those of you advocating salt on the sidewalks, remember that’s what they used to do to enemy fields. It left them infertile for years. If you salt the sidewalk, when it runs off it’s going to damage the grass.

I shoveled my sidewalk yesterday, then swept it clear. Today it was bare. There wasn’t anything left to turn to ice.

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[miws]

Aw geeeez! I’m so dense, that when I first read KatherineL’s post until I got to the mention of the damage to the grass, I wondered “how the hell does salt render the enemy troops infertile?”

Mike

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