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August 6, 2008 at 9:20 pm #633173
JenVMemberhas anyone contacted Salty’s about this? I am guessing the Public Relations manager might have some interesting thoughts: http://saltys.com/contact/#
August 6, 2008 at 11:28 pm #633174
acemotelParticipantAugust 7, 2008 at 2:05 am #633175
charlabobParticipant(76) I just sent an email to the folks listed in the “contact” message — I don’t expect much.
Ace, was there a big flap about workers’ rights or treatment 4 or 5 years ago? I seem to recall, but can’t find it with the best of google.
If I get a response, or I don’t, I’ll let y-all know.
August 7, 2008 at 6:42 am #633176
acemotelParticipantMaybe you’re thinking of this:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/118731_protest23.html
when one of Kingen’s other ventures failed and disgruntled employees picketed Salty’s because they had not been paid. Kingen was one of several partners to that venture, a casino in SeaTac.
Also in 2003 Salty’s was late on a tax bill and tried to sue the IRS, but that suit was dismissed.
In the last three or four years, a number of class actions suits have been filed against Red Robin for labor violations (in California); I believe they have just recently been settled. Although as someone mentioned above, apparently Kingen is no longer involved in that company.
August 7, 2008 at 7:24 pm #633177
CaduceusMemberRegardless of Hitler’s warring decisions and actions, his political leadership has yet to be surpassed.
He was able to rally his entire country, and inspire them to act.
Granted he did so in a grotesque and horrible manner. With a dreadful outcome simply because he had poor intentions.
If you took Hitlers political savy and his leadership abilities and applied them to a constructive and well intended cause you would have nothing but success.
It’s unfortunate that so many people are looking at who said the quote, rather than the actual quote itself and how it applies to today.
That quote is entirely correct and inspiring, regardless of who it is quoting. Since the person using the quote is obviously using it in the context of NOW, rather than when Hitler was trying to dominate the world.
August 7, 2008 at 7:35 pm #633178
ZenguyParticipantApparently you have never watched Star Trek. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
The quote is not the issue, it is true in fact that the future is in the children but the way it was done is the problem. They did not teach them they filled their heads with propoganda, much like the NeoCons of today.
August 7, 2008 at 7:54 pm #633179
CaduceusMember“Granted he did so in a grotesque and horrible manner. With a dreadful outcome simply because he had poor intentions.”
August 7, 2008 at 8:01 pm #633180
villagegreenMember“He who owns the youth owns the future.”
“He was able to rally his entire country, and inspire them to act.”
“Owning” and “inspiring” are two completely different things. You seem to be endorsing the brainwashing of the youth. Sounds like a NeoCon to me.
August 7, 2008 at 8:16 pm #633181
CaduceusMemberVG:
You can take the context of the quote however you like I suppose.
But if you are not able to find good in what was “inherently” bad, then you’re missing out on a whole lot.
Ownership
2. the act of having and controlling property
(Note: On a political scale you do not deal with the public as individuals, so the word “property” fits a little less strangely in that sense)
If you inspire someone is that not a form of control? A form of positive control? Trying to steer a person’s (or many persons) life into a more positive direction.
You can easily subjectify the quote (of Ghandi)
“An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.”
And pretend Hitler used it as a metaphor for him dominating the world. If that were Hitler’s quote, would it then be impossible to take good from it since the person quoted did despicable things?
Taking language literally will hinder your ability to communicate imo. For example, religious scriptures, jokes, songs, poetry, quotes etc.
If you can find minute inspiration in something askew than that shows you make an effort to grow as a person. I don’t see anything wrong with that.
I suppose I see the glass half full.
August 7, 2008 at 8:38 pm #633182
villagegreenMemberI agree that language taken literally can hinder one’s ability to understand and communicate. However, I don’t think in this case taking Hitler’s quote out of context changes his original meaning.
He wanted to control people’s thoughts, not inspire them to greatness. In that sense, I do not believe “his political leadership has yet to be surpassed.” He had the cult of personality, but ultimately failed as a leader.
August 7, 2008 at 9:04 pm #633183
CaduceusMemberI disagree, simply because I can’t think of a leader (more specifically any American one) who had such a following of “like minded believers” (whether or not they are naturally like-minded).
And excluding moral, good VS bad, etc…in the context of him setting “goals” and achieving however many he accomplished, I’m sure he has been more successful in that sense. And only in that sense.
I do not support what he did, but if there were a presidential candidate who were positive/constructive version of him with equal prowess and ingenuity in what they believe in I don’t think we’d be complaining (as Americans).
And just to throw an example out here, they would torture prisoners in order to gain medical knowledge, most of that knowledge is still used today.
Finding good in the inherently bad isn’t that strange of a concept. I had a New Patient Checkup this morning, I didn’t scorn my new doctor for using practices coined by the Nazi’s.
Anyhow I didn’t mean to go way off-topic, I just don’t see how everyone is being so angry just because of a single name. He no longer effects us as an individual and I’m sure those who were effected by him have made personal leaps and bounds in their lives to fulfill their lives.
Regardless of who it’s quoting, the quote holds true to the extent that it isn’t impossible to take positivity away from it. And that people may be getting upset/angry when they could be gaining a wealth of growth instead.
August 7, 2008 at 9:25 pm #633184
ZenguyParticipantYou cannot get that kind of support without picking a group to point the finger at and blame for all the countries problems unfortunately. Hitler picked the Jews and held them up as the common enemy, today we pick gays and muslims.
Hitler still affects us today, if you have ever spent time in Germany you know what I mean. It is a terrible burden that Germans carry even today, even for those that were not born at the time.
August 7, 2008 at 9:50 pm #633185
JoBParticipantCaduceus,
had Hitler’s political leadership been as great as you seem to think, he would have won the hearts and minds not only of his people but of all of the countries he “assimilated”.
He won no hearts and minds.. but he sure did terrorize and propagandize his populace… and by propagandize.. i mean he lied to them and then sold his lies by controlling the media…
The problem with lies is that sooner or later people figure out they are lies… and terrorized people eventually look for any escape from terror.
Not all Germans bought Hitler’s propaganda. His real success was with the Hitler youth.. that he successfully brainwashed and which grew up to bully their parents and to become the heart of the SS…
If the only experience you have had with democratic government is that of our current administration, i can see why you might think that is leadership..
but there really is a better way. Ghandi didn’t terrorize anyone and yet he truly did rally his country… creating substantial change.
August 7, 2008 at 10:47 pm #633186
CaduceusMemberAs I stated JoB, I was never talking about his actions or whether or not what he did was good or bad.
I was talking about what he said he was going to do and what he actually “accomplished”.
In comparison to most other politicians who make hundreds of unfulfilled promises and accomplish relatively nothing.
I was commenting on his faith and prowess in what he believed in, and how he actually acted.
Which is why he was such a threat to begin with, he wasn’t just a regular politician.
This is my point, people concentrate on the negative of everything unless there isn’t anything negative known.
There is good in everything, whether it’s ridiculously obscure or it’s logically simple enough that it’s apparent right away.
You just have to be willing to look for it.
And again, just in-case someone missed my other posts, I do not believe Hitler’s actions were in any way good or acceptable nor do I support what Hitler did.
And Zen, Hitler does not effect us as an individual, he effects us as a dark period in time that in turn effected a lot of people. What he did effects us now, not him as a person.
August 7, 2008 at 10:54 pm #633187
angelescrestParticipant“He no longer effects us as an individual…”
You sure about that? Who, exactly, are you speaking for?
August 7, 2008 at 11:04 pm #633188
CaduceusMemberAC
Feel free to contact me at
audioautomatica at gmail dot com
and I’ll respond with the obvious answer to your question via e-mail since I am un-able to locate a private messaging system on this forum and this topic does not deserve to be de-railed any further.
August 8, 2008 at 12:40 am #633189
HPMemberI could be wrong but I looked it up on grammargirl and it should read “affect” but please correct me if I am wrong tia
August 8, 2008 at 1:04 am #633190
angelescrestParticipantHp, yep…
And those “personal leaps and bounds”,Cad, uh-huh…I would never be so presumptious. As, Zenguy said, the Germans have a lot to deal with; I don’t think life’s a bowl of cherries for Holocaust survivors ands their kin. Heck Hitler’s cronies are still being rounded up as near as Bellevue. And history does seem to repeat itself; I’d guess Mr. Bashir might be an ardent Hitler fan.
Point is, Kingen’s sent a mighty message, and I’m guessing that that message won’t keep you from eating at Salty’s.
August 8, 2008 at 3:05 am #633191
acemotelParticipantnot to mention that mindset is still alive and thriving not only in Germany, but here is the US. It’s immoral to raise the spectre, especially if you think Hitler is the most brilliant politician in history. His acts, deeds and words can’t be separated from the brutality of his reign.
August 8, 2008 at 4:14 am #633192
JeannieParticipantGrammar note: It is absolutely, unquestionably “affect,” not “effect,” in this context.
Although I disagree with Caduceus, I appreciate that this is an intelligent, reasonable debate. Tryanny, intimidation, malice, hatred, and aggression do not make an effective leader.
Oh, and I think the food at Salty’s is mediocre. It’s a big hit with “promsters,” but I’m a little past that age!
P.S. “In Roman iconography … [the caduceus] was often depicted being carried in the left hand of the Greek god Hermes, the messenger of the gods, guide of the dead and protector of merchants, gamblers, liars and thieves. Ironically, the caduceus has come to be used as a symbol for medicine, especially in North America.”
August 8, 2008 at 4:46 am #633193
JoBParticipantJeannie..
my first meal at a Salty’s was at the original in Portland.. and though it was not a prom.. it was part of a formal evening and i was wearing my very first cocktail dress.
the year? well. i don’t think we need to go into that;)
August 8, 2008 at 4:54 am #633194
JoBParticipantCaduceas…
I will give you that Hitler got results for a while..
but most of his ability to get things done had little to do with inspiration.. and a great deal to do with pandering to prejudice, exploiting the resentment in postwar Germany from losing the fist war and the lack of economic opportunity following it, indoctrination of children and intimidation.
and ultimately. he didn’t deliver on his biggest campaign promise.. german supremacy.
I suppose the same could be said for Stalin… although ultimately that didn’t turn out so well for him either… or Mussolini or even Saddam…
There is a huge difference between inspiration and the way that despots inflame prejudice… exploit resentment and intimidate to gain power over citizens.
whether that power is used for good or evil has little to do with the process by which one gains influence.
August 8, 2008 at 7:47 am #633195
JeannieParticipantWell-put, JoB (re power and despots).
And thanks for the Salty’s/cocktail dress memories. Does anyone (other than promsters) wear cocktail dresses anymore in Seattle?!
August 8, 2008 at 2:33 pm #633196
BernickiMemberI live in cocktail dresses.
August 8, 2008 at 2:38 pm #633197
JoBParticipantJeannie,
i recently bought a little black dress… ok, it’s knit, but the style could have come right out of my cocktail dress period…
i planned to wear it to one of the project runway viewings… maybe with a boa, tiara and flipflops… but have been too tired to go. maybe the next one ;>
btw.. you should have seen my hubby beam when i brought that dress home. we’ll be doing a big dinner out one of these days soon.. no boa, no tiara, no flipflops :(
didn’t know he could still look at me like that ;0
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