Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Is Seattle Racist???
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June 23, 2008 at 10:40 pm #628401
KenParticipantLet me see if I can apply a little perspective.
In general, the question of whether a city or community is “racist” is neither a rational question nor a valid one.
House is right (perhaps inadvertently :) in that the question and label apply to people rather than geographic areas.
Also prejudice is not exactly equivalent to racism. I grew up in the segregated south and will always fight the prejudices ingrained in the culture of my birth. But I do not pretend they do not exist.
The only TV station we could get when I was a kid was part owned by Jesse Helms. I heard some of the most vicious hate and race slanders in the editorials twice a day. I rejected those ideas about the same time I figured out the minister was lying about whether some races had souls and some religions ate babies.
But even after all these years a thought will pop up that I can trace back to those days and I will have to squash it with reason and experience.
As a city Seattle’s history is no different from many others in that respect. Segregation in its institutional form was perhaps stronger here than in some other parts of the country. In one respect growing up in the south only exposed me to hate aimed at one race. Seattle had a wider focus. In the south, asians, native americans and mexicans were so rare the usual prejudices and segregation were often forgotten.
Deeds in Seattle neighborhoods included detailed codicils that specified what races the property could be sold to. These were enforced until they were made illegal but could not be removed until a specific law was passed in 2006 to allow it.
http://depts.washington.edu/civilr/segregated.htm
The Fort Lawton riot:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/223483_hamann10.html
And the internment of the Japanese during WWII
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/140396792X/orcinus-20/
By local blogger Dave Neiwert http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/
will give you some history of local events.
I currently live in a very diverse neighborhood and have a mixed race family.
I spend probably more time out of the house in the White Center/Roxbury area than I do in the Junction but I think it is just because it is easier to park and there is more variety of the kind of stuff I use. The only purchase I have made in the junction in the past year is several used books.
Individual people can be racist and many who are, at least are no longer comfortable expressing it.
As you can see from up-thread, I have a broad brush and am not afraid to use it. There are also social science experiments that back up my paint job.
June 23, 2008 at 11:19 pm #628402
GreenSpacesMemberYou think crime is bad now – wait until August. The kids will be so bored by then and will have had lots of time to watch the comings and goings frmo certain houses on the street.
The best thing you can do is clean out your garage and use it to park your car. That way it is not easy to determine from an empty driveway whether someone is at home or not. Then teach your kids at home during the summer to yell thru the door (not open it) rather than just ignoring a ringing door bell since that is how they check to see if anyone is home. You don’t want someone breaking into your house of well-behaved latchkey kids.
Read “Preventing Burglary”
http://crimeprevention.rutgers.edu/crime/burglary/prevention/preventing%20burglary.htm
June 24, 2008 at 12:53 am #628403
KayleighMemberWSMom, those are examples of comments I would consider racist, and I would not have liked hearing them, either. Sorry I missed that.
June 24, 2008 at 4:30 am #628404
TheHouseMemberI hate to tell you all, but I just confirmed that Seattle is racist. This guy proves it:
Beware… RACISM ALERT!! Please sound the alarms and begin evacuating!!
June 24, 2008 at 4:43 am #628405
AnonymousInactiveHouse – Absolutely priceless!
June 24, 2008 at 7:50 am #628406
JeraldParticipantI think many (perhaps most) people are uncomfortable with the unfamiliar. Some might not like Broadway/Capital Hill because of the gay “vibe.” People of color might avoid a primarily white neighborhood. I’ve known people who never entered Nordstrom because they thought it was only for rich people and expected they’d be frowned upon.
Some people like to travel to foreign countries, the more exotic the better. Others prefer English-speaking countries or, better yet, Disneyland.
I’m sure lots of West Seattlites never consider stopping in White Center because it just seems too different.
I’m not saying this is or isn’t racism. Just that racism isn’t the only factor. I’m comfortable in White Center in daylight, but drive around it after dark. But I also avoid the West Seattle Junction alleys after dark too.
It’s just not fair to make the leap from “I never shop or dine in White Center” to “I hate all non-white people.” (Not that anyone has done that, but it’s implied in the discussion.)
June 24, 2008 at 6:02 pm #628407
soclwrkrinmotnMemberSince it got opened again, I have no intent to point fingers or anything else, other than to say we all have a part in racism.
Here’s a take on this…it’s from a anti-racism workshop geared for multi-racial people.
Prejudice + Power = Oppression (Be it classism, racism, sexism, ageism, heterosexism, ablism, cisgenderism…)
In this case, “power†is a relational term. It can only be understood as a relationship between human beings in a specific historical, economic and social setting. It must be exercised to be visible.
It isn’t limited to Seattle and we all have a role in perpetuating it, be it internalizing it, being tied to institutions that are inherently formed on a white, middle class, heterosexual mindset, to not challenging written history, media, and the idea of “otherness.”
Structural oppression lies underneath, all around and across society. It encompasses: (1) history, which lies underneath the surface, providing the foundation for privilegein this country. (2) culture, which exists all around our everyday lives, providing the normalization and replication of oppression and, (3) interconnected institutions and policies, they key relationships and rules across society providing the legitimacy and reinforcements to maintain and perpetuate opressions.
Institutional racism occurs within and between institutions. Institutional oppression is discriminatory treatment, unfair policies and inequitable opportunities and impacts, based
on race/class/sex/ablebodiedness/sexual orientation/gender identity/age, produced and perpetuated by institutions (schools, mass media, etc.). Individuals within institutions take on the power of the institution when they act in ways that advantage and disadvantage people, based on the abovementioned qualifications.
Interpersonal “isms” occurs between individuals. Once private beliefs come into interaction with others, the racism is now in the interpersonal realm. Examples include public expressions of prejudice, hate, bias and bigotry between individuals.
Individual or internalized prejudice lies within individuals. These are private manifestations of prejudice that reside inside the individual.
Examples include prejudice, xenophobia, internalized oppression and privilege, and beliefs about race influenced by the dominant culture.
To cease being oppressors, we must act against oppression. Regardless of race, ethnicity, age, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, disablity, if we don’t take a REAL stand (not finger pointing) then we are all a part of the issue.
D***, I hate getting all academic.
June 24, 2008 at 7:17 pm #628408
RSMemberOooh, Socl you win the prize for the day for using “cisgenderism” in a post! *swoon*
June 24, 2008 at 7:30 pm #628409
soclwrkrinmotnMemberIs it a cash prize?
June 24, 2008 at 7:45 pm #628410
AimParticipant*giggle* you get your prize from me, later.
June 24, 2008 at 8:26 pm #628411
keleesoMemberJune 24, 2008 at 8:27 pm #628412
AimParticipantHA! I never said what it was… I was thinking a paleta. LOL.
June 24, 2008 at 8:35 pm #628413
soclwrkrinmotnMemberI can’t have a paleta, yet.
June 24, 2008 at 9:04 pm #628414
keleesoMemberI will get my mind out of the gutter (and let someone else’s float by).
June 24, 2008 at 9:08 pm #628415
JanSParticipantsounds like some people are feeling much , much better ;-P
June 24, 2008 at 9:30 pm #628416
soclwrkrinmotnMemberIf you are referring to me, then I would have to say yes. Not 100% yet, but yes…getting there. Getting hit with two lovely prizes at once–norovirus and e coli–plus being a lightweight drinker at BPP…my poor system is still asking me if I have a death wish.
Honestly, I still am really surprised that this was reopened and then became a big issue of finger pointing. *shrugs* If the subject is broached, then we need to have a real discussion around it…
June 24, 2008 at 9:40 pm #628417
charlabobParticipantThanks for your analysis, soc — as usual, it made me think.
I’d love to see a genuine discussion of racism and classism (and, my candidate for Seattle’s most unpleasant trait: smug-ism). But not here. Not as long as some folks prefer to bait than to think.
Though, if someone else starts it, I’m sure I won’t be able to resist. :-)
June 24, 2008 at 11:11 pm #628418
soclwrkrinmotnMemberCharlabob…I know. I have a temper, too. I am trying to learn to go into to “social worker” mode, and step back, breathe, and then…write.
Smug-ism? Hmmm. I think it might fall under a bit of classism, if’n I think hard about it. What do you think?
June 25, 2008 at 12:38 am #628419
KayleighMemberCharla, do tell more about smug-ism.
My candidate for most obnoxious Seattle “ism”: Bastyr-ism. The people who refuse to practice scientifically proven medicine (“it has chemicals! It doesn’t work for my unique needs because I am special!”) and employ naturopathy, acupuncture,woo-woo-opathy, herbs sold by 17-year-olds at vitamin stores, etc.
Oh, and these particular folks look down on those of us who prefer scientifically proven medicine and care dispensed by people with buttloads of education. And they don’t hestiate to tell you ad nauseum about their miracle cures, rolling their eyes at you as you take antibiotics for a MRSA infection or antihistamines so you can freaking breathe. And their supposed cure often shows that they have not the basic understanding of how the human body works, as most treatment usually involves some vague “allergy” or “intolerance”…
(I realize not all people who use natural medicine are like this. But I bet you know someone who is.) ;-)
June 25, 2008 at 1:26 am #628420
soclwrkrinmotnMemberKayleigh, you reinforced my argument as smug-ism falling under classism. *grins*
June 25, 2008 at 1:37 am #628421
KayleighMemberSoc, you callin’ me smug? ;-)
BTW, I see Bastyr-ism mainly in 50+ white women with ample incomes. It’s ironic that millions of people are uninsured and cannot get basic health care, yet I know two people who give homeopathic remedies—to their DOGS.
June 25, 2008 at 1:56 am #628422
JanSParticipanthmm…Bastyr-ism…well, as a massage therapist, I, of course would love to see everyone heal as naturally as possible. Having said that, I truly believe that there can be a meeting of minds on this. When I needed hip surgery the first time, but didn’t realize it (had no insurance, hadn’t seen a doc), my chiro, who I traded with, told me ..naw, you don’t have arthritis, adjusted the h*ll out of my hip, and caused so much pain I went to the nearest clinic I could find…and it was uphill from there. When I was dx with breast cancer 3 years ago, I came to understand how western medicine can be. Was chemo fun? G-d, no…surgery? nooo..MRSA…wow, no…antibiotics for that, for sure…and now…(yes, I’ve been insured since the cancer dx)…my recent hip surgery…all have made my life better, and pain free. But…I also believe in massage, and acupuncture, that they can share in the benefits for everyone. Insurance covers them, I’m a preferred provider with most…medical docs refer to me. There can be a meeting of minds as more and more is found out about complementary and alternative medicine – we can coexist. I know one fine female MD who also went to Bastyr to become an ND…she never took the final test, but uses the tools that she learned there in her practice…she’s a great doc.
Yes, there are some treatments that I regard as “woo woo”…and I simply avoid them, and won’t recommend them.
Kayleigh, I understand what you’re saying, though…I have no problem with giving your dog homeopathies if it does no harm, and makes you(not them)feel better…but I do have a problem with clinics that will tout natural ingredients to terminal cancer patients, or to cancer patients who can be helped with more standard treatments , but are scared, so seek other, and lose their battle…those people are purveyors of false hope and scam artists to the Nth degree,in my book..JMO…
June 25, 2008 at 2:34 am #628423
KayleighMemberJan, you know I’m a believer in massage. But that’s about where alternative medicine and I begin and end.
One of my fave websites: http://www.quackwatch.org
Sometime I will tell you a horror story about someone who had cancer–somehow missed by a naturopath who was treating her for “intolerances” and “allergies”.
June 25, 2008 at 6:35 am #628424
AnonymousInactiveIf this isn’t the biggest threadjacking, I don’t know what is…..
What are we talking about here??!!!!
June 25, 2008 at 7:37 am #628425
JanSParticipantlol..NR…sorry about that…the thread kinda got side tracked…someone brought up racism, then it moved to classism, and “smug-ism”..and then Kayleigh brought up bastyr-ism. You’re not from here. Bastyr University is in Kenmore..it’s a nationally recognized university where you go to become a naturopathic doc. I even took a cadaver anatomy class there in massage school. We kinda got side tracked about this last one…sorry about that…
Kayleigh..long live massage !!! :)
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