West Seattle coyotes: Dog owner reports attack; other sightings

datamuse September 12, 2012 (10:47 am)

Based on my direct experience, they are afraid of bicycles.

…less flippantly (though the foregoing is true–they’ve run away every time I’ve encountered them while riding), I’ve been concerned something like this would happen. I’ve spotted them several times in the Highland Park area. I like them, but if they’re attacking dogs then we have a problem.

evergreen September 12, 2012 (10:53 am)

Do coyotes usually hunt in packs, or are they typically solitary?

DirtyCoyote September 12, 2012 (10:54 am)

My friend…..

MB September 12, 2012 (11:00 am)

I live in Highland park just 2 blocks away from the off leash park, about 2 weeks ago we had our windows open around 10pm and I started to hear a laughing/talking noise from a larger amount of animals, had a feeling it was coyotes, although Id never heard them before. Went online and found this video link, sounded exactly like this!! Seemed like there mustve been about 10 of them. They were so loud and got louder each time a fire truck drove by with sirens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpVE7RldYwE

Michelle September 12, 2012 (11:09 am)

Please be respectful of these beautiful animals. They are very fearful of humans and will only attack a dog if it is off leash and small. These coyotes have every right to be here. They lived here LONG before we did. Yes, cats are at risk… try to keep them inside at night. Your cat is your responsibility. I bet cars kill more pets than coyotes.

CDB September 12, 2012 (11:30 am)

I agree with you 100%, Michelle. Well put.

Jeff September 12, 2012 (11:37 am)

I know that no matter how many times I post this on coyote stories, the message will never get across but….

Michelle, coyotes were not here long before us. Coyotes have vastly expanded their range since the West was settled, because we leave food (pets) all over the place. They thrive in an urban /suburban environment.

Caitlin September 12, 2012 (11:38 am)

Those poor dogs that were attacked. My thoughts are with the owner. Does anyone know how big the dogs were? Am interested to hear if they are attacking bigger dogs too. We have a 50 pound Border Collie and the coyotes we have seen lately have been bigger than our girl.

Faith4 September 12, 2012 (11:48 am)

I am contacting those that really do not believe that this happens here in West Seattle to look at this report. Thank you so much. I am also reminding those that I know that have dogs around here that go to dog parks or just walking around.
I have told them they are here & I have spotted them and people look at me like “yeah, right.” So this report is very helpful. Thank you.

Also, the coyotes are not just out at night. We have seen them around as late as 11 AM & also earlier in the afternoon.

WSB September 12, 2012 (12:20 pm)

Faith4, if you have anyone who doesn’t think there are coyotes here, also click the word COYOTES under the headline of this story or any other coyote sighting report we have published … that brings up the entire archive, newest to oldest. (Or the link in the CATEGORIES list of archives in the lower right of the sidebar.) Goes back to 2007.

SomeGuy September 12, 2012 (11:54 am)

I would be willing to donate to a community fund to purchase anvils. I hear ACME makes a fine product that seems particularly effective with coyotes.

evergreen September 12, 2012 (12:01 pm)

Ok, Michelle, but if they are coming close enough to humans to attack leashed pets, then children are at risk. And there HAVE been reports of coyotes stalking at least one leashed dog on WSB.aThis is unfortunate, but obviously their population is growing too large. They have no natural enemies, and are now looking for food in our backyards. Are we going to do something before the first child in WS is attacked? Wildlife needs to be intelligently managed in what is now clearly an urban area. We need a professional to really assess the area & situation, in my oinion.

Brian September 12, 2012 (12:04 pm)

“We need to find a way to get the city or state to set up a trap to move them into the mountains.”

I can assure you the mountains have plenty of coyotes. If someone goes through the trouble of trapping the animals they will not be relocated…

ohmygosh September 12, 2012 (12:14 pm)

They do not have a right to be in my yard when my little dogs are out in the daytime.If they show up here I would do whatever it took to protect my pets.They are getting way too bold.If they are attacking peoples dogs in their own yards then something needs to be done about it. I love coyotes by the way,but I love my pets more.Enough is enough.

service dog academy September 12, 2012 (12:16 pm)

Im sorry for this poor dog owners dogs. An attack by anything is traumatic for both people and the dog that it happened to.

This is a reminder people that all dogs, coyotes and wolves are something called “opportunistic scavengers”. If the opportunity to scavenge food never presents itself then the animals will move on. This means keeping your trash sealed shut (to prevent the rats and mice that coyotes eat out, as well keeping the coyotes out of your trash), keeping your small pets indoors when unsupervised and NEVER EVER feeding a coyote. All animals learn using animal learning theory. If an animal is rewarded by a behavior it is more likely to occur again, if it is NOT rewarded by a behavior is is LESS likely to occur again. If you do not provide these animals with opportunities to feed they will not hunt for food in your yard.

Mary McNeight, CPDT-KA, CCS, BGS
Director of Training and Behavior
Service Dog Academy – http://www.servicedogacademy.com

Kim September 12, 2012 (12:17 pm)

Thanks for saying that, Michelle. Agreed.

G September 12, 2012 (12:26 pm)

No, Michelle, we were here long before the coyotes appeared. There were no coyotes in West Seattle when I was growing up. Please, let’s clear up that myth. Their numbers are exploding here, as they are in many cities, like Los Angeles.

Cass September 12, 2012 (12:32 pm)

We have lost 2 cats in 6 months. The last one was killed presumably by a coyote on Sunday between 5 & 6 pm. We had a very strict rule that they were not allowed out between 7pm & 7 am during the summer & still they are gone. We are heart broken & will do anything we can to get rid of the coyotes but are at a loss. We live on very well traveled, by walkers, 36th street. Is there anyone that is organizing anything?

LSWS September 12, 2012 (12:38 pm)

WSB…can you please add the link to the story of a coyote attacking a pet in their own backyard? I don’t recall reading about that.
Thanks!

datamuse September 12, 2012 (12:43 pm)

Actually, Jeff, from the studies I’ve read the main reason coyotes have expanded their range is the decline of gray wolf populations. The coyote has largely moved into the niche the wolf used to occupy.
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Increased population with our attendant food sources (of which pets are just one component: we generate a LOT of trash, which in turn attracts mice, rats, and other vermin that are coyotes’ main prey) has certainly played its role as well.
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Relocation by itself won’t work. Coyotes travel, and the mountains have plenty of them already; I’ve seen them. Removing coyote populations from urban areas tends to have the effect that they either return, or others move in.
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Killing a few has been seen to serve as a deterrent to others. I’ve hoped it wouldn’t come to that, but we’re not doing a good job of keeping them wary of humans. (Highland Park alone has a ton of unsecured trash, poorly maintained buildings and lots where rats and other animals can hide, and free-roaming pets of both the canine and feline variety. It’s practically a smorgasbord.)

Libb September 12, 2012 (12:44 pm)

We live at Holgate & 46th (North Admiral) and a coyote was in our front yard about 11:30 at night eating something.

westseattledood September 12, 2012 (12:47 pm)

My two cents:

Need *lots* more info than provided: were the dogs off-leash? In the yard or out in the greenbelt? Was their food outside? Garbage out?

Recognizing that coyotes (original habitat: Plains) may reach carrying capacity on the peninsula is being respectful, as well as responsible stewards. It is entirely possible that that will happen. Even if everbody got with the program and left no garbage food or pets out, the population of coyotes might continue to increase because there is no predator.

I don’t know exactly how to get to the point where it can be implemented, but a sterilization program needs to be considered by the state to slow the population. The alternatives are trapping and relocation or killing them. Which aren’t logical alternatives to my way of thinking about the *national* problem with coyote proliferation.

Wendy September 12, 2012 (12:51 pm)

I saw a coyote in Lincoln Park on Sunday around noon.

B-squared September 12, 2012 (1:07 pm)

Agreed, Michelle. What at gorgeous animal! I wish i saw more of them.

furor scribendi September 12, 2012 (1:07 pm)

Michelle, CDB, others: REALLY? The timeline of history determines nothing. Listen; coyotes are infilling our peninsula more now than ever, are disease carriers and aggressive predators and thus a threat to people and pets, and need to be controlled. Permanently controlled. There is no balance here, environmental or otherwise, when packs of coyotes are running free.

CDB September 12, 2012 (1:46 pm)

Furor Scribendi:

Really!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am stopping there as I don’t want to be as snarky and denigrating as others.
Have a great day!

Guy Olson September 12, 2012 (1:58 pm)

Can we do something about the bald eagles? They prey on those sweet little fisheys in the water!

Faith4 September 12, 2012 (2:09 pm)

FYI – as reported in the past, eagles also pick up cats & small dogs. Somewhere back in the WSB archives there is something about a small dog that was picked up by an eagle and wiggled loose. I think that was WSB. If not, it was local news.

I have been witness to an eagle almost getting a cat. If the cat had not flattened, the cat would have been picked up.

We just all need to be aware of our pets & their surroundings. Even walking small dogs on Alki as I had an eagle circling me one time when walking a small dog. I stepped over the dog & the eagle left. The dog was only about a foot in front of me but being watched.

Coyotes are not our only predators here in West Seattle. They just seem to get all the reports.

bsmomma September 12, 2012 (2:12 pm)

I understand that these animals are WILD………..but so are rats. We have leash laws for our DOMESTIC and (presumably) vaccinated dogs for a reason, right?

Nick September 12, 2012 (2:21 pm)

I saw one a couple nights ago in Seaview, about 40/50 ft away from me. We exchanged stares and he kept on his way down an alley.

Personally as an outdoor cat owner I think the Coyotes should be allowed to stay. You take a risk any time you let your animal outside. You don’t have to let them out. And there are ways you can protect them without killing off the Coyotes. I think they’re very interesting creatures and their presence makes the area unique.

Dick September 12, 2012 (2:23 pm)

@someguy
YES! Acme indeed makes a fine anvil. I think it would be beneficial to introduce a population of roadrunners to help with the anvils. Perhaps of we had more cliffs as well? Coyotes are notoriously foolish about running off of cliffs.

John September 12, 2012 (2:39 pm)

I support removal of coyotes from West Seattle by any means. It is not realistic to expect our pets to stay inside all the time, and they should not be killed when they venture outside. We have seen some around our neighborhood and fear that one day they will attack a small child or other person. They are predators and do not belong in suburban areas.

cr September 12, 2012 (2:56 pm)

Kill them, all of them. If your argument is because my dog was off leash, and therefore lower on the food chain then the coyotes are, and it is the dogs/owners fault they were attacked, then my simple argument is we are higher up the food chain, and therefore it is my right to kill them.

Joe September 12, 2012 (2:56 pm)

Better kill all the racooons, possums, bald eagles, owls, hawks cause they can kill your cats n small dogs too.

Neal Chism September 12, 2012 (3:16 pm)

This is not an issue only about our pet cats and dogs, this is about all our little creatures in WS.
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The coyote numbers have been growing, reports coming in to this blog for years now, and they (the coyotes) will end up eating just about everything down the food chain, and will start attacking upwards too. There is no other predator to limit their numbers.
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But I am worried greatly by this four dog attack report. One reason for this attack may be simply that smaller prey is getting harder for the coyotes to find. And someone may say that this is just a few “problem” coyotes which need to be dealt with on a case by case basis, but again a simple answer may just be that the coyotes were just hungry.
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c September 12, 2012 (3:38 pm)

From other stories I have read on the blog, coyotes are not very afraid of people.

SomeGuy September 12, 2012 (3:57 pm)

Dick, another idea: coyotes are apparently unaware of the destructive power of TNT and can often be duped into triggering a detonation with one those old-timey plunger devices. Guessing ACME may make these as well? Let’s keep the good ideas flowing!

DukeMalisto September 12, 2012 (4:18 pm)

Here is how I understand the situation:

1: These discussions and news stories about coyotes serve to inform the ignorant masses. Everyone here knows at least one person who didn’t believe them when they told them coyotes were all over West Seattle. Knowing about the problem, prepares you for when you encounter it. I personally have been surrounded by multiple coyotes more than once, near Lincoln Park, and felt in danger when they did not run off after throwing rocks at them and yelling. I luckily had an escape route and was not far from my front door each time.

2: Saying “we should share our living spaces with dangerous coyotes” because they lived in Washington so long is ignorant on all accounts. There is no valid defense for it when trying to discuss a solution. It is not a solution to ignore a problem. That is how problems get out of hand. Threads like this open up the gates for public opinion and thoughts on possible solutions that the community can come together on.

In lieu of being unable to slap some people over the Internet, I would like to at least acknowledge the sterilization idea as a good option. Relocating an animal that is designed to travel long distances, isn’t a viable solution. Sterilizing the problematic populations would be a great method of controlling their numbers, though. It is also non-lethal.

Killing them would also be an effective method, but I can’t trust that enough people would be responsible with that level of power. People or other animals could wind up in the crossfire, so to speak.

We need to avoid ignorant coyote hugging and knee-jerk reactions, and figure out a solution.

There, my two cents.

WSB September 12, 2012 (4:48 pm)

P.S. For those interested, I finally heard back from the dog owner who said his dogs were attacked. He says they were in his fenced yard when it happened.

rmp September 12, 2012 (4:19 pm)

I live at Arrowhead Garden Apts. off Meyers Way and I hear (many, probably a family)Coyotes all the time, especially with sirens. I’ve also seen them walking around the area … It’s amazing that people with their small dogs that live here haven’t been attacked, some people walk their dogs late at night. Glad it hasn’t happened yet anyway!

DPM September 12, 2012 (4:24 pm)

Sterilization would be great but how can it be done effectively and efficiently?

We just need to keep our cats inside, I do, I have 2 cats 8 & 9 years old and they have never been outside so it can be done.

And dogs should always be with their owners.

And Acme & the Road Runner…cracked me up!!! :-)

G September 12, 2012 (4:51 pm)

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-banks-coyotes-20120904,0,4180516.column

We’re not the only ones see an increase in coyotes.

cr September 12, 2012 (5:01 pm)

In their own yard… There goes the points of some above…

DPM September 12, 2012 (5:08 pm)

It shouldn’t matter how big or where those dogs were when attacked, they were attacked and I hope they get better.

I would be just devastated if that ever happened to my cats.

Todd September 12, 2012 (5:29 pm)

I’ve lived in WS for a long time and I never remember any coyotes before the last few years. I believe in live and let live, BUT…I’ve seen them personally near my house and they were slightly aggressive (I did charge them to scare ’em off). This combined with a confirmed attack on a LEASHED dog that was KILLED while out on a walk WITH THE OWNER in Seola Beach and led to government-backed hunters coming in should be a little wake-up call. I don’t advocate complete elimination, but with no natural predators the wildlife populations tend to get “unbalanced” (our state has way more deer now, than the turn of the century before grizzlies and wolves were hunted out). If a young child were to be attacked and hurt badly (or worse), we wouldn’t be worrying about if they were here first or not.
On a side note to an earlier post – I’ve spent a lot of time over the years in the Cascades backpacking for days at a time in some pretty remote areas and have never seen a coyote in the “wild”.

Rocky raccoon September 12, 2012 (5:33 pm)

The neighborhoods off the Admiral hill are being inundated with arboreal raccoons which have sent three dogs to the vets and one owner to the hospital . They too are attacking at all hours and in yards. The coyotes have run them up the hill and they are nesting in people’s yards.

boy September 12, 2012 (5:46 pm)

It is time to pull out the big guns and get rid of these things. They are not native to seattle. We are at the top of the food chain and it is time to let these criters know. The city should put a bounty on them. It should be catch an destroy. And to all of you who say they were here first or we should coxesit, the heck with that. We humans are here now along with are pets. This is now a human habitat and we expect some safty for or pets an family. If you like the pests then go to the zoo or eastern Wa. to see them. Or move the into your back yard. Bottom line this is man natural habitat and the pests must go.

Cori September 12, 2012 (5:47 pm)

Last spring my husband and sons were playing baseball at Highpoint Field and a coyote appeared and laid down in the field and watched them. They kept playing, with their eye on the coyote, and our medium sized dog tied to the fence. After about 5 minutes a very small child came running down the hill towards them. The coyote got up, and started trotting towards the kid, and the closer he got, the faster he went. My husband and kids yelled to the dad at the top of the hill that it was a coyote headed his child’s way and the dad started yelling and running at the coyote and scared him off. Who knows what the coyote’s intent was, but it appeared to the people present that the coyote viewed the small kid as prey.

Sue September 12, 2012 (5:58 pm)

I am very sorry your dogs were hurt. I am grateful that you were not physically hurt, but I I know that I would be profoundly disturbed by that situation. You have my sympathy.

I read ” the kind of action recommended by state wildlife authorities” tag referenced in the article – in order to keep them wary of humans tag. I found this quote interesting: “owner, the owner’s immediate family, employee, or a tenant of real property may kill or trap a coyote on that property if it is damaging crops or domestic animals (RCW 77.36.030). A license is not required in such cases. Check with your county and/or local jurisdiction for local restrictions.” Don’t know what the local restrictions are but sounds like we can use that anvil/tnt.

I am a frequent user of Westcrest off leash park, has anyone had any issues in the park?

onceachef September 12, 2012 (6:14 pm)

Small children running in the vicinity of a hungry coyote (or maybe not even hungry) will be considered “food”…it’s important to remember that and protect your kids…instead of “keeping an eye”on the coyote, run it off as soon as you see it…the more you tolerate it being near you, the bolder it will get. Throw baseballs at it…anything to let it know you’re a threat. If you have baseball bats you can at least protect yourself if there’s a run-in…and that’s better than a child being hurt or worse.
Hope the dogs that were hurt recover…were they small dogs? 4 of them should be enough to scare off a coyote(s)?
Coyotes have their place in nature, but not uncontrolled. It seems there is a “medium ground” for controlling this situation.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 (6:23 pm)

Maybe we should trap them and open a zoo! ha ha, what ya think about that kind of management?!

bolo September 12, 2012 (6:27 pm)

One good thing about coyotes is that they really like to eat rats. I have been noticing recently way less rat problems…

Wednesday September 12, 2012 (6:29 pm)

I’ve told it before, but 1st story I remember hearing was in 1997 when a scared coyote chased by crows ran into an elevator at Seattle’s downtown federal building. That’s 15 years ago that they were right downtown under everyone’s nose. Who’d a thunk?

Growing up on Bainbridge it was mostly raccoons I remember maiming & killing pets, eagles/hawks getting chickens, but now I hear they also have increasing issues with coyotes,cougar & sometimes even bear, not to mention rats. Where the hell are they all supposed to go?

Very sorry the attack happened and I hope the dogs recover but wild animals are only trying to survive like the rest of us. Got to be smarter then them I guess.

DirtyCoyote September 12, 2012 (6:32 pm)

A lot of animal haters here by the comments I’ve been reading. Ignorance is bliss..If you rather have rats then kill them off. Bainbridge Island is overrun with rats now because they’ve killed dozens of coyotes.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/local/coyote-killings-may-be-cause-rat-increase-bainbrid/nQDSS/

smokeycretin9 September 12, 2012 (6:39 pm)

“Permit me to introduce myself. My name is Coyote. Wile E. Coyote, genius. “

Neal Chism September 12, 2012 (6:53 pm)

So here seems to be the paths available.
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Option A) Do nothing, ignore the issue, and “live and let live”.
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The number of coyotes will increase do to the small animals running around in WS. Sooner or later due to the number of pets and humans here there will be an encounter which will end badly for someone. Pets are already going away at a steady rate. (I am a pet owner who just, BTW, dropped a lot of money off at the vet today.) And if a child gets hurt then out come the lawsuits and we all pay for the cleanup. DFW comes in and “thins” the herd via some method or another.
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Option B) Do Something sooner rather than later.
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Thin the numbers of Coyotes.
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The hard part is to figure out how to get the government agency who is responsible for taking care of packs of wild dogs inside city limits to address this issue. Looks like the issue does end up at the Washington State level with DFW. Some low level action has taken place and there does not seem to be much visibility on the work done, or information gathered, based on WS Blog information. Thin the population of the coyotes, which is a tough decision, and do it sooner rather than later when there are less animals to deal with. (I did suggest this idea several years ago and this was met with less than enthusiastic results.)
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And since I have been commenting on this issue for a long time here I will unleash a Snark for the cartoon lovers out there who think penguins in antarctica really can tap dance.
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Find a place like an island or a peninsula say like West Seattle, and make it a nice place for the humans, charging them with lots of taxes so they can live in a reasonably healthy environment, fresh water, stop lights, bike lanes, sewer systems, etc.. A safe place to raise their kids, then let wild packs of dogs roam around freely. Then celebrate a holiday that ends up with lots of the kids running around at dusk carrying bags of food… (Hopefully reusable bags and not plastic.)
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Plan A or B? Or does someone out there have a plan c?

Jones September 12, 2012 (6:54 pm)

5 million people attacked by DOGS a year.Around 20 people killed by dogs a year.
Less than 10 people attacked by coyotes a year. 5 MILLION compared to almost NONE.
Get a grip people.
The same statistics go for your pets, missing a cat? look at your neighbors dog before you go freaking out about magical satanic coyotes.

PDH September 12, 2012 (7:13 pm)

Libb, welcome to the neighborhood. :-) We are your neighbors around the corner on Holgate.We saw a coyote at the intersection just the other night around 10pm…maybe same fellow.

WS expat September 12, 2012 (7:56 pm)

I too remember the coyote in the Federal Building elevator. Everyone was shocked, shocked to find there were coyotes in their midst.
In the Southwest, coyotes keep the rodent population in check. We used to shoot, trap and poison them at will, and some people still do, but we realized that, if not for coyotes, we’d be hip deep in prairie dogs (bubonic plague carriers) and deer mice (hantavirus carriers). Coyotes are pretty much the perfect predator in their size and weight class. They are fertile, adaptable omnivores. Seattle could steam clean the streets, blast all the garbage to the asteroid belt and put every domestic pet in a suit of armour. Coyotes would still thrive on anything edible: raccoons, snakes, frogs, possums (another recent import), fish, squirrels, pigeons, the lovely rats that scamper so freely along the waterfront and even, in a pinch, garden produce.
Unless it is possible to remove ALL potential food sources, eradication programs such as shooting, poisoning and trapping will be largely ineffective. In addition, most suburbanites don’t have the stomach for such programs. If finding the family cat in pieces disturbs the kiddies, one can only imagine the ruckus that will erupt when little Amberleigh or young Heathcliff sees a litter of dead coyote pups, or the corpse of something that looks like the family dog after it has been poisoned or caught in a trap.

Faith4 September 12, 2012 (8:28 pm)

My friend told me that he saw a coyote trotting along this morning at the bottom of California Ave SW where it turns on to Alki – near the walk on ferry area.

Woodsman September 12, 2012 (9:38 pm)

Better round up all the drunk drivers. And your worried about a coyote.

tk September 12, 2012 (9:48 pm)

I get really tired of the dog haters on here. We owe dogs for our civilization! We have been working a long side dogs for over 10K years!

tk September 12, 2012 (9:54 pm)

http://youtu.be/aDmzzREXI_g <–VIDEO

Mike September 12, 2012 (9:58 pm)

I prefer coyotes over rodents that will kill you and your pets with diseases. BTW, keep your cat out of my yard, your outdoor cat carries a lot of crud in their poop that can make my dog sick, my kid sick, me sick and possibly my INDOOR cat sick.

Neal Chism September 13, 2012 (8:32 am)

Dirty Coyote did not take the time to even read the comments on the last coyote report. Coyotes reestablished on Bainbridge about five years ago. Ate lots of the little animals that were keeping the lid on the rodent population. Only NOW they are having rodent bloom because they are up to their armpits in coyotes and finally starting to thin the numbers. Guess what no smaller animals, like cats, to go after the rodents.
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There are a handful now on Vashon. They made the swim over a 1/2 mile on open water to get there. Wait and see what happens there too.

Neal Chism September 13, 2012 (8:36 am)

For WS expat, your argument is a little confusing. You say they are the perfect predator, we probably can’t do anything about? Nor will we have the stomach for it.
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If a pet dog bites a human without too much discussion about, we put the animal down.
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If a cougar comes in and attacks a human, no questions there.
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So you are saying we have perfect pack hunting predators with no natural way to control their numbers and we should do nothing?

Neal Chism September 13, 2012 (8:41 am)

And we have the cat haters back again. Your preferring packs of wild dogs to 10 pound cats for rodent control?
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And I probably won’t get too many diseases from rodents because we own cats for the very reason they keep rodents out of the area. Rodents won’t nest anywhere near a place that has cats.
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And also remember that the homeowner funded rodent control program, pet cats, is much preferable to a government run program of trapping, chemicals, etc..
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We had this argument about three years ago.

Neal Chism September 13, 2012 (8:54 am)

And we have some statistics here too!
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“5 million people attacked by DOGS a year.Around 20 people killed by dogs a year.”
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So your saying that if I have 100 red apples(dogs), and 5 green apples(coyotes), I will have more bad red apples than green ones, right?
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Wait, what if all the green apples are ALL bad apples, and the number of them increase exponentially over time, then won’t the ratio of green bad apples to red bad apples really grow much greater than one very quickly?
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Math is hard!
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And remember we destroy the bad red apples if they attack a human.
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Libb September 13, 2012 (9:13 am)

BTW, since raccoons have been mentioned, we had a raccoon coming into our kitchen at night/early morning, through the cat door to eat our cats food. We went through several attempts to mitigate the problem. So far it appears that we got rid of it by giving it a light shock with a car battery two nights in a row as it attempted to enter our home. But even out in rural King county where we lived before we didn’t see this much wildlife so close to dwellings. All this in the same week we had the coyote in our front yard having some kind of meal!

DB Coop September 13, 2012 (9:38 am)

CR: “Kill them, all of them. If your argument is because my dog was off leash, and therefore lower on the food chain then the coyotes are, and it is the dogs/owners fault they were attacked, then my simple argument is we are higher up the food chain, and therefore it is my right to kill them.”

Nobody said food chain but I would like to see you sit down and eat a whole coyote once you kill them all.

Neal Chism September 13, 2012 (10:09 am)

And for all of you who think I hate the coyotes, I do not.
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For all of you who think that I may just be full of shit.
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The following comment was made, at me, about nine months BEFORE the Bainbridge Island TV and newspaper story came out. I had no idea what was going on over there, and I was very surprised to see that coyotes had even made it on to that island.
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“Oct 14, 2011
Comment by NULU
“No response to my offer of him becoming what society defines as a responsible cat owner if his (Neal’s) computations and unique prediction of Coyote and Rat Armageddon does not occur within the next 3 to 5 years.””
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If I remember correctly, NULU fell into the “I love song birds/hate all cats because cats eat all the birds” group of commentators. We had just a wonderful debate.
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JoAnne September 13, 2012 (10:20 am)

This problem has been going on for several years now. Why is no one helping? What do we elect people for if not to help with dangerous wildlife running loose in our yards?

Faith4 September 13, 2012 (10:35 am)

Can you tell us if they know if the coyotes dug under the fence or went over the fence? We understand that they can jump, climb or dig under wood or metal fences. Thanks as this would help knowing.

Neal Chism September 13, 2012 (10:57 am)

The city and county have shifted the responsibility up to the state level and DFW. And probably that is a good thing. Prevents the dog catchers from driving around and shooting at stuff.
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The Dept. of Fish and Wildlife will respond only after a bad animal/human interaction. So that group is reactive instead of proactive.
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Add to these facts, many people don’t even know there is a problem here, or those who are aware of this issue don’t want to make the difficult decision to manage these animals. The first step is hard enough, to admit to oneself that we really do manage a wide array of animals inside city limits all the time.
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Mike September 13, 2012 (11:11 am)

Chism, you need to go back and re-read the news you are trying to use as your logic for getting rid of coyotes.

http://blogs.kitsapsun.com/bainbridge/archive/2007/10/a_town_meeting_over_wild_coyot.html
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“”By keeping cats indoors, you will help reduce the coyote population to its natural level.”

Rullman said coyotes hunt and feed just after dusk and just before sunrise. When they’re yipping, they’re probably having some kind of reunion and not hunting.
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So what to do?
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If they bother you, start dis-inviting them from the urban fringe. Shake a string of cans at them; yell at them; throw rocks, bring in the pet food and secure the garbage.”

DirtyCoyote September 13, 2012 (11:57 am)

My friend got 75 comments so far. He’s such a popular fellow and its not even the mating season yet.

Neal Chism September 13, 2012 (12:07 pm)

Yes I read the 2007 article, right after I read the 2012 story about thinning the coyotes.
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I have lived here twenty year now, in the middle of WS and not on the urban fringe, and we did not have any coyotes that I can recall five years ago. So the natural coyote level is close to zero.
Unless you think WS is not really an artificial city made to support humans in large numbers.
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And again this is a bigger issue than just the pet cats or pet dogs.
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These coyotes are big animals. Just think how much dog food you have to buy every month for a medium sized pet dog. Now think how that 50-100 pound bag of dog food for the pet equates into the number of small animals those coyotes need to consume every day or month or whatever time frame you want to talk about.
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And Predator-Prey dynamics is not a new thing. What happens when a new predator come into a fairly confined area like an island, or a peninsula like WS, is to start eating. The predator population grows accordingly to large enough numbers that will sooner or later wipe out (take down to very small numbers) the smaller prey. Then the predators suffer from lack of food and you have a decreasing population of now really hungry pissed off, in this case, coyotes. Honest I haven’t made any of this stuff up.
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So pretend now that we cat owners stow the cats away from harm. Take away all the cats. What continues to happen? The coyotes still keep eating down the food chain, sideways across the food chain, and when the middle is gone, we are left with a bunch of hungry coyotes that will be looking very closely at the bigger animals, like big pet dogs. And they will have to go farther down the chain to the smallest prey remaining, the rodents who were having a field day, humping like bunnies, after the cats were stowed away.
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And this whole concept of “dis-inviting” wild animals is dumb too. And if we were all throwing rocks at Orcas then it would be called wildlife harassment. So take the time to read all the comments under the coyote section here and really look to see how well that plan is working.
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Neal Chism September 13, 2012 (12:26 pm)

And that advise to Bainbridge in 2007, about keeping the cats inside to help bring the coyote numbers down to a natural level, just didn’t work.
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The coyotes probably did kill a lot of pet cats. But the coyotes kept eating and growing in numbers, and now in 2012 the residents have had enough and are making the tough decision of controlling the coyote numbers.
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And BTW they seem to have a lot of rodent issues now too, and sadly I suspect that the rodent issue will only get worse because they now have a very bad imbalance in the variety of animals on the island.
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Mike September 13, 2012 (1:15 pm)

you need to do more research Chism. Coyotes don’t weight 50-100lbs. They average 40 lbs for a male. They are not wolves, they are coyotes. Coyotes prey on small animals and easy food sources (cat food left outside). They eat rodents…they control the rodent population… I don’t know how many actual valid sources you are reading, but that’s what they eat. They don’t feed on humans, hell, even wolves don’t feed on humans unless they are starving. We could have black bears and they would not feed on humans, Grizzly..yes, Polar Bear..yes. Go back and do your homework.

Dick September 13, 2012 (2:17 pm)

For starters, we don’t know how many coyotes are in W Seattle. We don’t know how many packs either. They can cover a LOT of ground in an hours time. W Seattle is a peninsula, not an island. If the food becomes scarce, THEY CAN LEAVE W SEATTLE. So, yes, leave Mr Mittens inside at night and bring his food inside as well. did the folks on Bainbridge actually follow the advice and bring Sprinkles and Mrs. Whiskers in? Have the people on this blog who are hyperventilating about the threat to their kitties been following the advice? Or, because nobody thinks they should have to change their own behavior is it just easier to decide to kill the coyotes?
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AND, why is EVERY missing cat determined to be the victims of coyotes? With all the chickens in peoples yards it would seem there should be some missing chickens too. Or do coyotes not eat poultry?

DPM September 13, 2012 (4:22 pm)

Faith4>>what does it matter if the coyotes dug or jumped over the fence, they attacked those 4 dogs?!

And as I’ve said all along keep your cats indoors, keep your dogs close to you/leashed and YES what about all the urban chickens are any missing?

Another thing I find saddening there are so many people commenting on this blog (79) and only 9 comments on the unsolved murder of Gregette Guy…we need to get a grip on what’s important in life.
My condolences to Ms. Guy’s family.

Livin' in WS since '91 September 13, 2012 (4:39 pm)

Ah, yes, the chickens. A neighbor had chickens (about three) in a pen, and one night Wile E. Coyote & company came in and — lickety-split — ate every one of those roosters & hens. So, yes, they are eating chickens. They are eyeing smaller (30 pounds and under) dogs, hence my decision to get a guard dog (65+ pounds Catahoula Leopard dog) for the smaller dog. We live near Fauntleroy Park, and that place is infested with them, as are the local greenbelts and parks (Lincoln included). Now, I do keep a handy bb rifle close by for close encounters with the varmints, but I prefer siccing the Catahoula on them. They don’t come round so much any more now that they know we’re ready for them…

Neal Chism September 13, 2012 (6:14 pm)

“you need to do more research Chism. Coyotes don’t weight 50-100lbs. They average 40 lbs for a male. They are not wolves, they are coyotes. Coyotes prey on small animals and easy food sources (cat food left outside). They eat rodents…they control the rodent population… I don’t know how many actual valid sources you are reading, but that’s what they eat. They don’t feed on humans,”
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Well thanks Mike for all that.
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Suggest maybe you try reading the actual words in my comments could be a better plan. Or do we need to do the old high school debate thing. This is all like recorded on the internet and stuff you know.
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So here we go with a repeat of the fall of 2011.
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Don’t think I ever said that the coyotes here weigh 50-100 pounds, I said; “think how that 50-100 pound bag of dog food”….. This is the comment of mine just right up there, about 3 inches above this post. ^^^^ Right there! See it?
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And here a the wikipedia paste so you don’t even have to spend finger energy typing all that on your keyboard.
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“and weigh from 15–46 lb (6.8–21 kg).[3][11] Northern coyotes are typically larger than southern subspecies, with the largest coyotes on record weighing 74.75 pounds (33.91 kg) and measuring 1.75 m (5.7 ft) in total length.[12][13]”
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They are not wolves. Never said they were. They are in the canine family. Latin name translates back into “barking dogs”. It also seems like I went over all this with NULU in the fall of 2011 in fact.
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Again from wikipedia….
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“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote”
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And where exactly did I say they “feed on humans”? Wheeeew wee!
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Here is the actual Neal quote that I cut and pasted for you, so again you don’t even have to scroll upwards to find it.
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“(In addition there is a small risk of a bad human/coyote interaction.)”
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Looks like it is once again; “just say anything on a free blog site and someone might believe you? Or is Mike really NULU in coyote clothing?
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Jeeeeez.
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Really the fire an brimstone is not needed. We are currently doing nothing about this issue. So if I am wrong well, it will be pretty obvious. If I am right however, and I hope that I am not, we just bet the spectrum of all the little animals here in WS.

Neal Chism September 13, 2012 (6:33 pm)

Ok, who’s is next, look like it is Dick.
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“W Seattle is a peninsula, not an island.” per Dick.
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“or a peninsula like WS” . Per Neal.
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Think we may have established this fact pretty well.
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“If the food becomes scarce, THEY CAN LEAVE W SEATTLE”
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Well, when the coyote food becomes scare, then that means that WS has just plain ran out of the little animals we use to have running around and annoying us on a regular basis. This leaving only the animals that will probably survive because they breed so fast. Yup, the RODENTS! Give this man a prize.
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Neal Chism September 13, 2012 (6:39 pm)

“For starters, we don’t know how many coyotes are in W Seattle. We don’t know how many packs either.”
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Yes agree. That is why we would like to hear from a government agency about all this, like DFW.
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Neal Chism September 13, 2012 (6:43 pm)

And for Faith4, the next time you make it over to SeaTac, look closely at the big fence they have that surrounds the runways. It is 12 feet tall, and goes 4 feet deep underground to prevent pesky animals like coyotes from digging in and chewing on the electrical cabling on the property.
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So the regular backyard fence here is not even an issue for the coyote.
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Sorry.

Neal Chism September 13, 2012 (6:49 pm)

“Have the people on this blog who are hyperventilating about the threat to their kitties been following the advice? Or, because nobody thinks they should have to change their own behavior is it just easier to decide to kill the coyotes?”
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“And again this is a bigger issue than just the pet cats or pet dogs.”
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That comment I made just today is about 2 feet vertically up^.
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ltfd September 13, 2012 (9:17 pm)

Dogs cause the most trauma to other dogs every year, not coyotes. Cars kill a significant percentage of pet dogs & cats every year, a far greater number than are taken by predators. Get a grip on what you should really be worried about concerning the safety of your pets- it’s not coyotes. Diet, disease and cars are the big threats to your pet’s survival & long term health.
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For humans, worrying about dogs bites/attacks makes sense; worrying about coyotes doesn’t make much sense-
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Dog bites, how big is the problem? According to the CDC:
About 4.5 million people are bitten by dogs each year.
Almost one in five of those who are bitten, a total of 885,000, require medical attention for dog bite-related injuries.
In 2006, more than 31,000 people underwent reconstructive surgery as a result of being bitten by dogs.
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Coyote attacks? According to one study (Coyote Attacks on Humans in the United States and Canada, White & Gehrt, 2009), there were 142 coyote “attacks” resulting in 159 victims bitten over a period of 46 years, 1960-2006. That’s about 3 per year. More good information can be found here- http://www.rockies.ca/coyotes/ecology.php
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You should be much more worried about being struck by lighting than being attacked by a coyote; in the U.S. there are annually an estimated 360 injuries and 40 lightning fatalities (noaa.gov). Compare that to 3 coyote attacks per year and then to 4.5 million dog bites causing 30,000+ people to need surgery.
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Life is short. Worry about dogs, then lightning, then coyotes.

Mike September 13, 2012 (9:58 pm)

Livin’ in WS, I’ll be sure to not go near your dog or your trigger happy finger on the BB gun, with my super friendly family loving Golden Retriever. I’d hate to sue you. ;)

DH September 13, 2012 (10:10 pm)

One was hanging out in the front yard of a home about 4:30 this afternoon at 13th Ave SW & SW Cloverdale in Highland Park. This is some distance away from Westcrest and the Highland Park Way green spaces we are used to seeing them… Never seen one wandering the neighborhood before, kinda eerie.

WS expat September 13, 2012 (10:26 pm)

Sorry, Neal Chism, but I will not play the straw man for you.
I am certainly NOT saying we should do nothing. Moreover, the comparison of coyotes to problem pet dogs and cougars is baloney.
What I said is that city slickers have no real idea of what “coyote eradication” actually involves. (Sakes alive, Seattle residents get the vapors over killing Canada geese!)
Ranchers and farmers in the West have been trying to solve the coyote “problem” since the 1870s yet we have no shortage of them. In fact, all efforts to eliminate food sources and to poison, shoot, blast and trap the coyote have only resulted in more adaptable, more alert and more wary coyotes. Not for nothing are coyotes the arch trickster of Native American tradition.
This wily little omnivore will be serenading the Seattle nights long after we humans are a mere memory.
Coyotes have adapted to West Seattle. West Seattle will have to adapt to the coyote.

datamuse September 13, 2012 (10:31 pm)

DH, I’ve seen one in that area when riding my bike. They do roam pretty far.

Neal Chism September 14, 2012 (10:29 am)

“I am certainly NOT saying we should do nothing.”
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OK WS expat, so your saying we should do something????
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“Coyotes have adapted to West Seattle. West Seattle will have to adapt to the coyote.”
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Then your last two sentences suggest, and correct me if I am wrong, the opposite, that WS should just get use to the coyotes?
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“the comparison of coyotes to problem pet dogs and cougars is baloney.”
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We simply do not allow cougars to reestablish here. And if a pet dog goes bad and starts attacking people, then the cops usually show up and shoot the animal. And the coyote is a wild dog.
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Which part of this is baloney?
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The CDC statistics being trotted out above, comparing the large number of pet dogs we do have in the city are not valid comparisons to the number of coyotes we have. Not certain what the coyote populations are but it is certainly much smaller than the number pet dogs right now. So be careful when you start quoting statistics.
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But let’s just suppose you had the same number of wild coyotes in WS that we have of licensed and vaccinated and the well fed pet dogs. What do you think the CDC results of that would be?
And again remember the coyote is in the canine family. They are just wild dogs.
The answer is a massively larger number of bites and attacks by the coyotes who are not on leashes. (This is where we get leash laws and licensing requirements from. And since pet dogs do bite, the owners have to take them in every year for shots too.)
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This is a hypothetically extreme condition I use for the sake of argument as this situation would never get to that point.
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I have stated my case often, that it is possible that a large imbalance in the animal variety could occur here in WS due to the coyote population. The Bainbridge Island situation may be an example of this. And WS has more people then Bainbridge, thus more garbage, bird feed for the rodents, pet cats, pet dogs, raccoons, chickens, squirrels, etc. etc. (maybe not chickens). There is a much larger supply of food for the coyotes to thrive on here.
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I am not certain what more I can say on this, except that animal population distribution shifts are serious business.

cr September 14, 2012 (10:34 am)

DB coop,

are they tasty? I’ve eaten pretty much every type of meat out there, but can’t say I’ve eaten coyote. What is the texture. Let me shoot one and we can find out.

Neal Chism September 14, 2012 (10:56 am)

“You should be much more worried about being struck by lighting than being attacked by a coyote;”
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Then I say try really reading the comments being made by the people who live here. Here are a few highlights just from this report thread.
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Comment by Unknown
“I live on 3rd Ave SW behind Westcrest Park and off-leash park and I had my 4 dogs attacked last night by the coyotes….”
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Comment by WSB
“I finally heard back from the dog owner who said his dogs were attacked. He says they were in his fenced yard when it happened.”
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Comment by Cori
“The coyote got up, and started trotting towards the kid, and the closer he got, the faster he went.”
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Comment by Rocky raccoon
“The neighborhoods off the Admiral hill are being inundated with arboreal raccoons which have sent three dogs to the vets and one owner to the hospital They too are attacking at all hours and in yards. The coyotes have run them up the hill and they are nesting in people’s yards.”
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Comment by DukeMalisto
“I personally have been surrounded by multiple coyotes more than once, near Lincoln Park, and felt in danger when they did not run off after throwing rocks at them and yelling. I luckily had an escape route….”
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Dick September 14, 2012 (5:13 pm)

In spite of all the hype, no person has been bitten or attacked by a coyote in West Seattle.
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“I am not certain what more I can say on this, except that animal population distribution shifts are serious business.” Said the man who wants to exterminate the coyotes.
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Remember, Mrs. Meowsworth, Mittens, Snowball, Patches, and all other feline are NOT native to West Seattle either.
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“Well, when the coyote food becomes scare, then that means that WS has just plain ran out of the little animals we use to have running around and annoying us on a regular basis. This leaving only the animals that will probably survive because they breed so fast. Yup, the RODENTS! Give this man a prize.”
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Neal, there will always be plenty of rodents, cats, toddlers, and know-it-alls on the blog (aka little animals running around annoying us).

DPM September 14, 2012 (5:16 pm)

Wow no offense Neal but you are long winded!

Neal Chism September 14, 2012 (8:27 pm)

Ohhhhhhh Kkkkkk then. I will be brief.
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Here is one for Dirty O’L Coyote. Next time DOC is sitting in a great popular restaurant here in “By God I Just love WEST SEATTLE!”, keep in mind that O’l MIckey M. is back in the kitchen helping out with the chef.
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(:O
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Happy Friday Night WS. Tell me where did you eat out on date night?
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Neal Chism September 14, 2012 (9:36 pm)

And Dick, good on you for not being mean and uncivilized.
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A respectful conversation is refreshing.
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Meowsworth, Mittens, Snowball, Patches, me, meow, and I thank you.
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Regards
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Wendy September 15, 2012 (12:57 am)

I saw a coyote around Graham and 48th tonight, near midnight.

editrixie September 15, 2012 (10:29 am)

i was at the vet when the poster was picking up his dog. It was horrific what happened to that poor dog, and I can’t get it out of my mind. And apparently the coyote had come into their house.

WS expat September 15, 2012 (8:32 pm)

For the last time and with respect,
YES, the problem of coyotes in West Seattle should be addressed, BUT whatever is done will not be 100 percent effective. The coyotes are here to stay. West Seattle will have to get used to having some coyotes around.
Humans can try to thin them out with shot, traps and poison, but any Game & Fish employee will tell you that nature regulates the numbers better than humans can.
Food sources for coyotes in the wild increase and decrease in cycles, usually of seven years. The size of coyote litters wax or wane according to the food supply. City coyotes, however, eat at a never-ending buffet. Humans could limit the free lunch by watching their pets, keeping pet food indoors, securing residential and commercial trash, and using common sense.
I call baloney on the comparison of coyotes to cougars because the problem of human/cougar encounters are completely different in both scale and species dynamics. (When was the last time anyone saw a cougar in Lincoln Park? Or did I miss that news?)
To return to reality, yes, coyotes are wild dogs, with emphasis on the wild. Trapping and disposing of coyotes will be a very different matter from impounding a pet dog. City and county animal control personnel and facilities are stretched to capacity now. As for the notion that “cops show up and shoot the animal”, Seattle has too much random gunfire now. Who would seriously suggest that animal officers start blasting away at coyotes in our streets, parks, and green spaces? And, how would the public react if they did?

UrbanCountryGirl September 15, 2012 (8:44 pm)

Oh, please my friends, I grew up with Coyotes in the country. They are not dangerous but afraid of you-just wave and shake your hands and scream. They will run off. I am tired of people acting like they are wolves or pit bulls. I have come across much more dangerous off leash dogs in Fauntleroy Park then any here ever in my neighborhood. Get over the urban thing…you live in area where there are lots of parks, hence they are here to stay.