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June 17, 2009 at 2:01 am #591262
SpeakLoudMemberThis is one of my favorite subjects that I rarely get to hear about but would love to know from my ‘neighbors’ what you think about ‘year round’ education. For example the school year would be September to August with seasonal breaks throughout the year-2 weeks at spring 2 weeks at winter 2 weeks at summer 2 weeks at fall. And the other ‘holiday’ days???
June 17, 2009 at 2:52 am #670013
IrukandjiParticipantI’d LOVE year-round school 9:30-5:30 four days per week, shorter holiday breaks and an allotted number of ‘vacation’ days so families could choose to vacate at will so long as educational standards are met.
Good effing luck, eh?
June 17, 2009 at 3:23 am #670014
hopeyParticipantDoesn’t work for parents sharing custody in different jurisdictions, different school districts, or, as is my situation, different states.
June 17, 2009 at 4:41 am #670015
SpeakLoudMemberWhat about it exactly wouldn’t work in your situation Hopey? Just trying to understand all the different points and reasons.
June 17, 2009 at 5:00 am #670016
OliverMemberI am all for a year-round school system. We outgrew the agricultural need for summers off long ago. Now, we would be much better off if schools were designed to consider the needs of families with parents who have to work outside the home.
The start/end times and various breaks simply don’t work well for most families. Sure, we make it work through a patch-work of alternatives,but it sure would be nice to not have to scrape together child care, camps, and other activities for the summer when they could be in school and learning.
Sadly, I don’t see it happening anytime soon.
June 17, 2009 at 5:28 am #670017
HMC RichParticipantOliver is correct about the agricultural need around here. It’s a different story in the rural areas but last time I checked, Seattle isn’t very rural.
I would be interested in the breakdown of families sending their children to public schools. I wonder how many single parents compared to two parent families there are. Someone has to look after the kids after school and if a parent or parents are working what makes more sense for them?
Also, what are the test differences between year round schools vs fall through spring sessions? Do teachers make more for year round education or the current setup?
Let me know if you know.
June 17, 2009 at 6:32 am #670018
JanSParticipantare there any school districts in the nation who have this kind of year round set-up? I’d be real interested in seeing how it’s working, if so. I actually like Irukandji’s idea. Things need to change at some point in public education, as the model we have now doesn’t seem to always work, as our world has changed…and our kids are falling behind. Yes, they graduate with knowledge, but many can’t put a decent resume together. They’re so used to texting shortcuts, etc. that it carries over into real life, and that simply doesn’t work. And the longer days would allow more sleep for the kids, would allow schools to have on a regular basis what is now considered extra-curricular…I see a lot of good ideas in that model. And, no, my child is grown, almost 29..so it wouldn’t affect me or her, but it’s an interesting idea, none-the-less.
June 17, 2009 at 6:35 am #670019
hopeyParticipantHypothetical situation:
Child lives with Dad in Seattle. Seattle adopts year-round schooling. Mom lives in another state which does not have year-round schooling. The parents have a court order regarding visitation which requires that the child travels to spend every summer (8-10 weeks) with Mom in the other state which does not have year-round schooling.
What happens? Do the parents then become obligated to bear the cost of 8-10 weeks of private tutoring while the child is with Mom, so the child can keep up with their peers in Seattle? Even if Mom’s area also has year-round schooling, is that child really going to integrate into another school in another state just for the summer? Or would the State argue that the Mom loses her right to summer visitation time because the child MUST be in school? Does the Dad have to give the Mom every single school vacation to make up for the fact that the child spends summers in Seattle for school, effectively meaning that the only way Dad gets a family vacation is by making the child miss school?
I can’t see a reasonable solution to the hypothetical situation that does not place an undue burden on one or both parents’ visitation time with the child.
June 17, 2009 at 3:35 pm #670020
berthaParticipantI too am very interested in year round education. I found this link http://www.educationworld.com/a_admin/admin/admin137.shtml that gives a summary and pros & cons. It says about 3000 schools in the US are in some kind of year round schedule. Interestingly it seems our current calendar is not agriculturally based but rather weather based. School was not held during the summer because of the heat (which makes total sense when you think about it) and one school district even reverted back to a traditional schedule because classrooms were simply too hot during the summer. There are many different calendar scenarios: in school 45 days, then 15 days off or 60 days, 20 days. Seems the district can do any kind of schedule as long as children are in school for the amount of days legally required by the state. If you Google year round schools a ton of stuff comes up. As usual, it isn’t an easy good vs bad deal. Could be a good change, could be a bad change.
Hopey, any change to a school schedule would probably require a modification to the parenting plan. My guess would be visiting the out-of-state parent more frequently, for shorter periods. Not saying I agree or disagree but the courts try to accomodate the child’s schedule first then the parents & I would guess the education schedule would be the court’s first priority.
June 17, 2009 at 3:51 pm #670021
maplesyrupParticipantIf the evidence were to indicate year round schooling provides a better education, that would trump whatever childcare issue is out there.
June 17, 2009 at 4:58 pm #670022
swimcatMemberI love the idea of year-round school. I doubt it would ever happen here though.
June 17, 2009 at 5:36 pm #670023
hopeyParticipantIt’s not a “childcare” issue. It is a right of a parent to have residential custody time with their child. That’s not “childcare”. That’s parenting.
Four two-week visits is not the same as eight consecutive weeks of residential time. Plus it quadruples the travel costs. Airfare aint cheap. And all that travel would be hard on the child.
Unfortunately, for many shared custody parents making a dramatic visitation scheduling change caused by a switch to year-round schooling would mean more money spent on lawyers. Not everyone can resolve scheduling conflicts without court assistance.
The only point I am trying to make is that for people with shared custody situations, the idea of year-round school raises a whole host of issues that traditional 2-natural-parent households may not have considered.
June 17, 2009 at 7:23 pm #670024
maplesyrupParticipantNot trying to be rude.
All I’m saying is that the decision should be made according to which system does the better job educating kids.
And cost-effectiveness should be the secondary factor.
If both systems are equal on those levels then, sure, you can introduce other factors.
June 17, 2009 at 7:56 pm #670025
hopeyParticipantmaplesyrup, with all due respect, I don’t think you have ever been involved in a high-conflict custody case, especially not one where the parents live on opposite sides of the country.
How child custody decisions ideally should be made is vastly different from how they are actually made in the courtroom. Cost matters when it means a child can no longer spend any time with one parent because that parent can’t afford the plane fare. Believe it or not, parenting (visitation) time trumps anything having to do with school. But this is not worth arguing point by point in what is supposed to be a discussion of year-round schooling.
Many divorced parents can work out such issues themselves, and more power to ’em. But that is not the case with everyone… and that is the only point I was trying to make in response to the question SpeakLoud directed to me.
Year-round schooling affects shared custody parents differently. That’s all.
June 17, 2009 at 9:00 pm #670026
flowerpetalMemberHere are some challenges to be addressed when considering year round schools:
*Costs for maintainance/repairs of bldg.s/busses
*Loss of time for teachers’ continuing ed req.s
*Teachers cannot supplement income w/ summer jobs
*Teacher burnout (they have a tough job!)
*Summer vacations/plans (like Hopey said)
*High school students would lose out on summer jobs, college courses,
*Say bye-bye to summer camps, church camps, scholastic camps, athletic camps
*Transfer problems for kids moving in/out of the district from a traditional district
There are conflicting research findings on this topic. Many seem to point to the higher dosage equals more learning. But when you look at other countries where children exceed what our children are learning; and doing that in the same amount of time, you likely will question if this is the right answer.
June 17, 2009 at 9:14 pm #670027
maplesyrupParticipanthopey, sounds like you’re in a difficult position. And no I haven’t been in that spot nor would I ever want to be.
My initial comment was a knee-jerk reaction (not just to your post by the way) to what I see as a tendency to overlook what should be the goal behind changing to a different system, which imo should be improving the education offered.
For another example, take a look at the link that bertha posted. One of the “pros” is that it gives people time to take vacations when there are fewer crowds and lower prices. Really? That’s nice and all but it seems kind of out of the scope of what we should be aiming for.
Anyway I’d be most interested in seeing some more measurable effects of changing to a year round system.
June 17, 2009 at 9:30 pm #670028
SemeleParticipantObviously there are some on here who have never been in such a situation and really have no right to beat on someone who is. I am not in that situation but grew up in it. My father had custody of my brother and I while we spent summers with our mom. We went to year round school for elementary and thankfully she lived in the same area for that time.
Once we moved to junior high/high school we went to traditional and as my mom had moved out of state the summers were the only time we got to see her. Had it been year round we may have seen her a lot less due to financial constraints or what have you and had my parents go through even more stressful mediation.
Having gone to both types of schools I didn’t notice anything better about either, I still had a decent education, but truth be told I HATED going year round, but then again, most people don’t care about what the kids think.
Sorry, but some of the responses were kind of upsetting so I had to pipe in.
June 17, 2009 at 9:50 pm #670029
maplesyrupParticipantJune 17, 2009 at 9:59 pm #670030
SemeleParticipantjesus christ, jumped on better? It sure did come across as Hopey was being attacked bringing up a valid argument. I just wanted to add to the other side. This is one of the reasons I rarely post on here anymore, people are constantly given a hard time for voicing an opinion especially if it is a dissenting one.
Hopey, I understand what you are going through from being a kid in that situation. Good luck to you in your situation.
June 17, 2009 at 10:04 pm #670031
hopeyParticipantSemele, I’d send you a PM if I could, but thanks. :) It is rare to find someone who understands what our family is going through, and how hard it is on all of us, including my stepson.
June 17, 2009 at 10:08 pm #670032
flowerpetalMemberSemele, Hopey, I understand as best I can, your circumstances. I have not been divorced nor were my parents. I think you demonstrate very well one of the challenges to year round schools.
The fabric of our lives does not support year round schools. Perhaps if we had always had that; we would view it differently. But now we have centuries of 9-10 months of school for our children coupled with no clear indicators that year round is beneficial. I don’t see it happenig.
June 18, 2009 at 3:15 pm #670033
shihtzuParticipantBooo to year round school. Summer is fun!
June 21, 2009 at 5:56 am #670034
SpeakLoudMemberyou say that now on the first day of summer!!! Check back in on the last one.
June 21, 2009 at 5:05 pm #670035
JoBParticipanthopey..
i wonder if divorced parents would be more likely to choose to live near their children if they realized that moving would require them to either fund more than one trip or lessen the time spent with them… or would move to be closer to their children if the custodial parent had to move?
at one time divorce agreements included a requirement that the custodial parent live in the state where the divorce was granted unless they received court approval to move… to secure the “rights” of both parents.
It is sad that adults don’t realize that when they have children they make a contract for life.. to parent those children.
They don’t have to stay together to do it.. but they sure do have to cooperate for the best interests of the child. When they don’t, it affects the kids for life…
Sadly, i know that both from the perspective of a child who experienced it and a parent who earned her wisdom too late to undo the harm she caused.
***
year round education tempered with regular breaks seems like a good idea to me… it would eliminate the amount of time so many students spend in review of material they learned last year.. and would make it easier for families to plan for time off together.
we would have to pay our teachers for a full year so they wouldn’t have to supplement their incomes with second jobs… but there is no reason to assume that teachers would suffer more burnout from year round school than they do now… and it would be easy to gear continuing ed credits to standardized time off… some schools already do so with on-line classes.
I would love to see both year round school and nationally standardized education…
June 21, 2009 at 6:46 pm #670036
FullTiltParticipantSome school districts are doing year round schooling with large chunks of vacation-for example they get all of October and Feb off instead of July and August. Switching to several short breaks would not be the same-teachers spend the majority of those short breaks grading, planning and catching up on work-only by having a definitive end and beginning do we get a true break. We still spend a large portion of summer in training, planning and prep for the next school year, but it is also the only time we really get off.
And JoB, as for national standards, please, please be careful what you wish for. I totally understand the desire to make sure everyone is up to par-a main reason I went into teaching is because in college I realized how vastly inequitable high schools across the country are. But in the struggle to standardize you loose the creativity and personalization that actually makes a difference. The research backs up that one of the biggest factors in student success is having a personal connection with at least one adult at school. We get that connection by altering classes to meet the needs of students, thereby demonstrating to them that we care about them and whether or not they are learning, not just cranking out lessons and grades. So be careful. We saw in Bellevue some of the garbage that school districts come up with to try and standardize. Good intentions, bad execution.
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