thank you, republicans.

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  • #761004

    JoB
    Participant

    kootch..

    “Job… in real dollars.. the middle class has more purchasing power per hour worked than ever in our history. That’s the good news. The bad news is they are eyeballs deep in debt and can’t take advantage of it”

    no.. the bad news is that only a limited number of the middle class are working enough hours to purchase those goods.

    both parents have to work now to provide the same lifestyle that one working parent could provide in 1970.

    no matter how you manipulate the stats by including higher wage brackets in your calculations … that’s an erosion of purchasing power kootch…

    you aren’t going to sell that to housewives..

    especially not to those of us who have been around long enough to know what our wages once purchased…

    and then there are the rising poverty levels.

    those folks used to be middle class.. now they aren’t..

    and it isn’t because they borrowed themselves to death… it’s because the number of living wage jobs in this country has dropped precipitously…

    outsourcing jobs might increase the bottom line

    but it sure hits the middle class hard.

    and it doens’t seem like good business to me

    impoverished consumers don’t buy much

    #761005

    JoB
    Participant

    kootch.. you rest our case? on what?

    i think you need to go take a good look at the cost of living in 1969/1970 compared to now.

    i think you will find that tripling income didn’t go nearly as far as you think it did.

    inflation rates alone don’t tell the story.

    you might want to look at disposable income

    and how the consumer dollar was allocated in 1969/70 as opposed to how it is allocated now.

    what am i saying?

    you aren’t going to look.

    but that’s where anyone who wanted answers would look.

    #761006

    waynster
    Participant

    So true Job you hit it dead on and the middle class and poor have had to bore the brunt of these so called price indexes which don’t truly reflect the cost of living increases the poor and middle class must absorb….the sad thing is oil has driven most if not all price increases from the 70’s on and as oil drops prices don’t go down and cost of living now doesn’t include the rise of oil thank newt for this when the formula was changed during his time as speaker…… so we pay more and more and so on and so on

    #761007

    DBP
    Member

    Follows a short list of additional measures I’d take to help prevent future nightmares on Wall Street. To my knowledge, not one of these things was included in Obama’s timid “reform” program.

     

    ♣ Curtail buying on margin.

    Supposedly one of the main lessons we learned from the Great Depression was that you shouldn’t allow people to play the stock market with borrowed money. But apparently, the lesson was not learned at all, because much of the market’s bloat this time around was due to that same problem: buying on margin. It’s time to get serious about this.

     

    ♣ Outlaw credit default swaps and other “derivatives” — particularly those where an investor can bet on a company’s likelihood of failing.

    After the smoke from the 2008 disaster cleared, it was discovered that some investment banks and brokers had actually cleaned up by betting that stock prices would collapse. In some cases, banks had even bet against their own clients. They’d buy large chunks of stock for the client, then turn around and bet against that same stock. As far as I know, this practice is still legal.

     

    ♣ Raise the reserve funding requirement for pension funds and strictly curtail the ability of companies to meddle with their own employee’s money.

    Remember Enron? Well, one of the many ways that Enron screwed people was by manipulating its own employees’ pension funds, using them to buy large amounts of Enron stock in order to inflate the stock price. When the company went bust, the employees (most of whom had done nothing wrong) were the biggest losers of all.

     

    ♣ Limit reliance on bond rating companies and investigate those that could be guilty of fraud or malfeasance.

    Just months before the 2008 crash, the Standard & Poors company was still giving its highest rating (AAA) to bonds that were based on murky and highly leveraged sub-prime loans. Later, this same company downgraded T-bills (which are based on the full faith and credit of the United States) in response to the Obama administration’s moves to limit the power of investment bankers.

    At its worst, the S & P is a weapon used by Wall Street to protect itself and block change. At best, it is merely incompetent. Like Mr. Killinger.

     

    And speaking of . . . why are we still in awe of fools like Kerry Killinger, Jamie Dimon and the rest? Why do we still — in spite of every proof to the contrary — accept that these people deserve our trust, or that they somehow earn their obscenely fat salaries?

    If there were any justice, we wouldn’t be rewarding such buffoonery. Instead, there’d be a nationally televised public caning held on the steps of the Stock Exchange building every Saturday morning.

    Right after the cartoons.

     

     

           

     

    #761008

    kootchman
    Member

    Good idead DPB… and yet you let the federal government do just the opposite? Treat SS like a pension fund, complete with reserves. I can also draw my money out of oor performing pension fund,… Because today.. if I had a million in spare cash… would I hand it to Jamie Dimon to invest… or Barak Obama? That shouldn’t be a hard one to answer. Betting for or against the market is what being a securities investor is all about. Funny the mot underfunded, pension systems in this country are state and local governments… yet you scream Enron… I’d be a hell of lot more concerned with CalPers and Ill….WA state pensions are underfunded… by billions.

    #761009

    JoB
    Participant

    kootch..

    so T-bills are now junk bonds?

    not yet. but i expect they will be if we follow your advice… and elect the guys who handed the keys to our pension funds to wall street and would love to go after social security next…

    #761010

    kootchman
    Member

    Let’s see.. bonds issued by a corporation that borrows 40% of every dollar it spends? A corporate bond issued by a company that has debt that is 8 times as large as its revenue? Yes.. those would be junk bonds. And you know how that works… you buy junk and proceed immediately to the scrap yard and sell if off piece by piece in the great fiscal chop shop. What SS funds… ? You are trying to get the millenials to pay for it… with no prayer in hell they will collect. Imagine being 45 years old.. and being told.. “carnival is over”… ooops we are sorry.

    #761011

    JoB
    Participant

    kootch..

    psst… the USA is not a corporation

    at least not yet

    you have to win the election to pull that one off

    #761012

    DBP
    Member

    From today’s Seattle Times:

    http://tinyurl.com/cane-em-now-cane-em-hard

    [In January 2008] House Minority Leader John Boehner became the Bush administration’s point person on Capitol Hill to negotiate a $150 billion stimulus package.

    In the days that followed, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson made frequent phone calls and visits to Boehner. [ . . . ] On Jan. 23, Boehner, R-Ohio, met Paulson for breakfast. Boehner would later report the rearrangement of a portion of his own financial portfolio made on that same day. He sold between $50,000 and $100,000 from a more aggressive mutual fund and moved money into a safer investment. [ . . . ]

    Boehner is one of 34 members of Congress who took steps during the financial crisis to recast their investment portfolios after phone calls or meetings with Paulson, his successor Timothy Geithner or Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, according to a Washington Post examination of appointment calendars and congressional disclosure forms.

    The lawmakers, many of whom held leadership positions and committee chairmanships in the House and Senate, changed portions of their portfolios a total of 166 times within two business days of speaking or meeting with the administration officials. The party affiliations of the lawmakers were about evenly divided between Democrats and Republicans, 19 to 15.

     

       

     

    #761013

    kootchman
    Member

    Yea… and you can read the ongoing Maxine Walters ethics invesitgation, or the Pelosi buddies who just happen to get exempted from student loan reforms… byt he time it was passed, it was so watered down you could have used it for distilled water. Nothing new under that Tuscan sun… Is that the Barney Frank basement and his “room mate”?

    #761014

    DBP
    Member

    Sure, kootch. For the right price, you can have naming rights and call it anything you like. Call it the “Barney Frank Disciplinary Facility” if that floats your boat.

    I’m thinking we can also offer taxpayers a chance to bid on wielding the cane. Proceeds will go to a charity fund for the victims and their families.

    #761015

    JV
    Member

    DBP, I think Barney calls it the “Bawney Fwank Pweasure Factowy”

    Kootch, I’ve come to realize that even if you make your argument as simple as possible, there are a lot of people who just don’t follow simple concepts (see above).

    [kootch explaining gravity] “If I drop this egg, it will fall and break…”

    [JoB’s retort] “human beings are not eggs! And are you so rich that you think it’s okay to waste food?!”

    [MIWS then posts a picture of a yawning cat, which is adorable, but completely irrelevant]

    [JanS defends JoB’s post, JoB thanks JanS, then MIWS posts another picture of a mama and baby squirrel cuddling in a nest. Again, adorable, but completely irrelevant.]

    #761016

    miws
    Participant
    #761017

    JoB
    Participant

    miws..

    but i find irrelevant kitten relevant

    #761018

    kootchman
    Member

    It’s his achievement of the year. He learned a new trick. We will see, the intelligence of any species is how soon they tire of a repetitive distraction and move on to other things after they have mastered the task.

    But JoB do go out and drop your life savings in “secure” T bills that are currently appreciating interest 50% below the rate of inflation. At least junk bonds if played right… after the dismemberment make money. OK we can protect pensions in government bankruptcy… which assets you gonna sell off first? Olympic National Forest? How about Yellowstone? Bonneville Power Authority? Grand Canyon? … or we are broke now… but are you going to bailout Stockton CA? Detroit? Chicago? How? Amazing how all the liberal blue states are collapsing under the weight of their union pensions…. and they are looking for federal bailouts from a government more debt leveraged than they are!!!

    And what are we doing to help Gen Y and the millineals? Free birth control! They can stay on as adult dependents on mommy and daddys’ health care plan. Yahooo … !!! what if we told them the price tag?

    To help close the budget gap, Stockton’s plan would suspend $10.2 million in debt payments, a move likely to trigger rating agencies to further downgrade the city, and reduce spending on employee compensation and retiree benefits by $11.2 million.

    See Jane and Johnny? There IS a bottom to the cookie jar!

    About $7 million in savings would come from cutting retiree health care benefits for one year and then phasing them out. Stockton officials have said the benefits are a crushing expense due to their fast rise and projected liability of $417 million.

    #761019

    redblack
    Participant

    typical. DP posts a link explaining that boehner and other republicans were basically engaging in insider trading, and kootch stammers, “but but but pelosi…” and JV makes a smart-assed remark about barney frank’s speech impediment and inserts some snark about forum commenters themselves instead of discussing the issue.

    you forgot to include those in your forum roundup, JV.

    #761020

    JoB
    Participant

    kootch…

    “At least junk bonds if played right… after the dismemberment make money.”

    selling junk as AA securities isn’t good business

    it’s fraud

    they should have been prosecuted and all profits confiscated to reimburse the victims

    because this is not a victimless crime

    “See Jane and Johnny? There IS a bottom to the cookie jar! “

    so why aren’t you holding those who still have their grubby mits in the cookie jar accountable Kootch…

    after all.. that was the opening salvo on this topic

    #761021

    JV
    Member

    redblack, do you know how much restraint it took from me to ONLY go after Bawney’s speech pwobwem? So much material there! =)

    Anyway, I’m not sure if you read the entire article, but I found this interesting:

    The party affiliations of the lawmakers were about evenly divided between Democrats and Republicans, 19 to 15.

    The financial moves by the members of Congress are permitted under congressional ethics rules, but some ethics experts said members should refrain from taking actions in their financial portfolios when they might know more than the public.

    Two points there:

    1.) there were MORE DEMOCRATS doing this than Republicans! (19Ds – 15Rs)

    2.) it is permitted…meaning not illegal.

    We probably agree that it SHOULD be illegal though. This type of thing needs to be exposed to sunlight and people from both parties can call them on their B.S. Throw all of those guys out! I hate the idea that our politicians think they are special and can do whatever they want.

    #761022

    kootchman
    Member

    see redblack, it’s a fuller picture when you know that liberals are amongst the worst insider traders… not just republicans. The full picture helps. It’s sorta like Charlie Rangel berating the 1% while he sits like a beached whale on his Caribbean properties and ..oooops.. forgets to declare income for taxes…

    Who rates secruities “AA”? .. securities are bonds, are you talking about federal government backed mortgage bonds?. which are still being bought by Fannie to this day? They are being held accountable.. their pension and healthcare benefits are being cut. The circus clowns have had their day. Are you going to bailout Stockton, Detroit, Philadelphia? ….or is the 1% supposed to do that too? You got some heavy lifting plans for that grpup!!! Those grubby fingers were attached to government employee union and some very very stupid politicians hands,

    Now we pay. The government may not be a corporation,,, but they carry liability to pay off their obligations, The underpinnings being their revenue is taxes. As it now stands… the government is NOT able to pay off it’s debt obligations, AND meet current expenditure promises. The proof is in the 40 cents we borrow for every dollar we spend.

    Here ya go

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_credit_rating

    I’d give the US Govt a Caa …. and that is being patriotic.

    #761023

    redblack
    Participant

    It’s sorta like Charlie Rangel berating the 1% while he sits like a beached whale on his Caribbean properties and ..oooops.. forgets to declare income for taxes…

    or mitt romney sitting on swiss bank accounts to avoid american taxation?

    no? not the same?

    i didn’t think so.

    and an interesting thing about stockton…

    if the u.s. wasn’t paying $300 million per day in afghanistan, we could bail out stockton annually 11 times over.

    in one day.

    priorities. u.s business hegemony, nation-building, and democracy-spreading shouldn’t be among them. and neither should bailing out wall street and kissing jamie dimon’s ass.

    let’s focus on the original topic.

    securities are bonds, are you talking about federal government backed mortgage bonds?

    no, i’m not.

    #761024

    redblack
    Participant

    JV: welcome to the discussion. after i left for work this morning, i had one of those i-shoulda moments, where i forgot to call you out for the gay-bashing.

    my bad.

    but let me just say that i don’t think that you, me, or anyone reading this is qualified to carry the honorable representative from massachusett’s lunch pail. that guy does more for the american working public in one day than all of corporate america does in a lifetime.

    #761025

    JV
    Member

    Redblack, please explain where I was bashing gays. (I’ve only posted 2 times before this, so it should be easy. #87, or #93?). Or we’re you just playing the typical liberal homophobic/racist/bigot card that comes out when your argument becomes desperate?

    And don’t kid yourself, that worthless sack has zero honor. Absowootwy zewo…toto disgwace to Amewica and to da congwess! (please WSB readers, YouTube this guy speaking! Then try to imagine negotiating with him while trying to keep a straight face!)

    But seriously, read your last post. None of us are qualified to carry his lunch pail? You picked a real winner with this one…he is just another corrupt politician. I would vote for any barista in West Seattle over the “honorable representative from Massachusetts”

    Carry his lunch pail? I don’t even want to think about what is in there!

    #761026

    kootchman
    Member
    #761027

    kootchman
    Member

    I have a Singapore account redblack…. I declare it it on my income statement as required by law.. as did Romney. It is not at all uncommon to have holdings in foreign countries. In fact, your own 401K allocation may even have a section called “emerging market funds”…George Soros holds paper in half the banks in Europe, ..Obamas new buddy.. warren Buffett has income overseas and leaves it there. The reasons you know about Romney is… he declared his income. Rangel did not. One is legal, the other gets you censured, fined, and penalized when you are caught.

    Gay bashining the “honorable gentlemans” from Mass? This one?

    US Representative Barney Frank acknowledged yesterday that for a brief time in 1989 he saw a psychiatrist and took antidepressant medication as he battled allegations from a gay prostitute and companion who had operated a sex-for-hire ring in the congressman’s home.

    And later found out to be trafficking heroin and coke…. sumpin tells ya when a guy rents your crib for 20K a month…and it is busier than a Manhattan subway turnstile… well… I guess he fits your description of a competent congressperson. Is this how he services the american working man? You can see how his judgement is called into question can’t ya? It’s not gay bashing when accounts are true and he admitted his “congressional oversight” !!!! Shoot… if it was anyone else there would have been criminal charges and asset forfeiture for sure. Oh yea.,, and he tried to get the state of Maryland to drop the probation of his pal… and used his congressional perks to get 33 traffic tickets dismissed… I guess that would be constituent services eh? He was rebuked by the House ethics committee for “misleading” written testimony. Stand up guy.

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2004/08/14/frank_tells_of_his_despair_during_14689_sex_scandal/

    #761028

    meg
    Member

    If the honorable Mass Rep’s performance has impressed anyone so much that you feel you should be carrying his lunch pail, then you should take a wee listen to this classic from 2005:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW5qKYfqALE

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