Losing

[JoB]

DBP

I have been sitting here trying to figure out what bothers me so much about your winning and losing posts..

and i have come to the conclusion that they bother me because they reduce this election to it’s absurd limitations as a horse race with no more consequence than who wins or loses their bets.

I so wish that was true…

but horse race politics has brought women to a point where 40+ years after the fact they stand to lose every right they fought for over a century to gain…

elected political figures have even equated women to children and suggested that they aren’t stable enough to have the right to vote.. because the ability to reproduce addles their minds…

As we have seen with the absurd limits the last Republican in office carried his “mandate” from less than half of the people ..

this election is likely to have far more consequences for the American people than who sits in the hot seat in the White House.

In the next four years new supreme count appointments could shift the very character of American law completely away from individual rights into corporate rights…

from equality for all to rights and privileges only for those who are born of the right sex and color and..

and this and should get everyone’s attention..

who can afford to purchase them for themselves and/or their loved ones.

I thought that as a nation we faced the biggest choices of my lifetime in the 60s…

I was wrong.

The biggest choice this nation will face in my lifetime will occur in the privacy of the ballot box in less than a week.

Will we be governed by the best interests of those with money to invest … Tricky Dicky style

or move back towards the idealism of JFK?

These are not even remotely similar trajectories DBP.

The outcome of this race matters a great deal.

it will determine the very character of this nation for generations to come.

and even more if there is another election too close to call without chicanery.

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[miws]

If, forbid, we have a Romney White House, I foresee decades of fighting for Equal Rights, and other Rights and Benefits being quickly dismantled.

If that happens, and then yet another Administration takes over in another four years with the intent to regain what was lost, although I don’t suspect having to start completely over from scratch, I expect having to climb up form the lower half of that “pole”.

Mike

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[kootchman]

You rail on an on about frivolity. No one is suggesting limited access to birth control. Pay for it yourself. If not, we have poverty programs that already have universal access. Roe v Wade is not going anywhere. At worst, it will be a states right issue, and probably not even see the light of day. It is settled case law. However, you are not content with these.. your sense of contentment comes from the other half having to pay for what they believe is morally reprehensible. JFK was an idealist? The founder of trickle down economics? The largest tax cutting president int he last 60 years? The one that said.. ” ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your coutnry”? That JFK?

Republican women version 2012

“Martha McSally is a retired United States Air Force colonel and US Congressional candidate. She was the first American woman to fly in combat since the 1991 lifting of the prohibition of women in combat, flying the A-10 over Iraq and Kuwait.[1] McSally is also the first woman to command a USAF fighter squadron, the 354th Fighter Squadron (354 FS) based at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base. After her military career, McSally won the 2012 Republican nomination for Arizona’s 2nd congressional district.”

An A-10 “warthog’ pilot… and she successfully sued Donald Rumsfeld.. while in uniform.

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[DBP]

 

Life doesn’t end just because we think it’s over.

 

I wanna live again. I wanna live again.

Please God . . . Let me live again.

 

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[JoB]

kootch..

doe your political meanness know no end?

It’s actually much cheaper to provide free birth control to women who want it than to pay for the associated costs of pregnancy and birth and childhood poverty and ….

and access to birth control prevents abortion

Your political stance is nothing more than meanness aimed right at women…

but hey.. there is no war on women is there?

just a war on a woman’s right to make her own decisions for herself

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[redblack]

365: the grand canyon is an apt metaphor. but not because it’s a big chasm.

it’s an apt metaphor because it was carved by forces greater than us. and it’s pretty humbling to look at.

we’re just at a wider part of the canyon right now than we have been in recent history. we probably haven’t seen a distance like this one since before the civil war.

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[JoB]

redblack..

i am not so sure the actual chasm is that wide…

although i will agree that every effort has been made by big business to inflame passions and widen it

and the effects of that inflammation of passion has been validated in the media.

divide and conquer is a strategy as old as the hills.

when we take politics .. or should i say the political parties..

out of the conversation..

i have found that most of us are pretty much agreed on our top concerns and the need to find a way to take care of those this economy has sidelined.

It the talking points that are at war.

Even big business when independently polled stated that tax breaks would not cause them to employ more people..

boosting consumerism is the key to employment.. not tax breaks.

you boost consumerism by putting people to work.

People understand that.. but get caught up in all of the talking point fear that is generated by those who want those tax breaks anyway.

We have evidence that big tax breaks for wealthy individuals and businesses don’t create jobs..

yet we are told that big business won’t provide jobs without them… that the only way to survive is to give those who have benefited most from our national economic woes more…

put that way, it doesn’t make much sense does it?

but there you go. What we are being fed does not make sense.

nor does the fear that has been created about what creating jobs and feeding people and helping control medical costs will do to the deficit and to our children’s and grandchildren’s future prospects.

The wars we are waging and bailing out economic institutions that gambled with our money and bankrupted our personal futures has created the deficit.

That is what we should be concerned about while those who wail about the deficit bang the drums of war and propose further deregulating industries that have shown no restraint and see no reason to do so since they can be saved from their folly and personally profit from the public purse.

We desperately need to get special interests out of our ears so people can think for themselves.

This is a resourceful country

and left to their own devices most Americans are problem solvers

not problem makers.

I don’t think the divide between people is as wide as we are led to believe…

If you assume that we are all basically good compassionate sensible people..

then you have to ask yourself whether what you know to be true about the people on the other side of the political spectrum is true..

the people

not the talking heads who consume our airspace.

I am with Will Rogers…

I don’t believe that you can fool the average man forever

and you know i personally think that goes double for the average woman ;->

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[kootchman]

“just a war on a woman’s right to make her own decisions for herself”

Not when I have to put into the pot. You can make those decisions… but not when others have to pick up the tab. So far Obamacare has raised insurance 3000 bucks … hardly cost control.

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[JoB]

kootch..

again..

then you are ok with taxpayers making decisions on what can and can’t be covered by insurance when it comes to men’s prostate health…

you know, the rationale behind covering viagra which does nothing for actual prostate health but does facilitate a very personal possible side effect of failing prostrate health?

because the same tax dollars that you say fund the right of women to insurance funded access to birth control pills funds your right of access to insurance funded viagra.

Want to see what women really say when they weigh in on that one?

i can see the headlines now.

Federal Funds Used to Facilitate Rape.

sorry dude. Even if you use your viagra in the most responsible way.. i really don’t think i should be funding your sex life.

do you?

“Not when i have to put into the pot”

stop being such a hypocrite

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[JoB]

kootch..

i separated this out because it is that important

“So far Obamacare has raised insurance 3000 bucks … hardly cost control.”

please show actual verification for this statement

because i am more than reasonably certain it is completely false.

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[kootchman]

How about this?

Rising Health Costs Undermine Obama Pledge to Curb Trend

Two new independent studies of health insurance premiums and health care spending indicate both are rising at an accelerated pace, despite President Obama’s 2008 promise to contain those costs and his pledge that his health care legislation would reduce premiums.

Spending on health care rose 4.6 percent in 2011 — up $4,500 per person, on average — according to the nonpartisan Health Care Cost Institute. That’s up from a 3.8 growth rate in 2010.

From American Broadcasting Corporation… all socialism all day…

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/rising-health-costs-undermine-obama-pledge-to-curb-trend/

I understated the cost… it’s more. Still think it is completely false? You think all the Obama mandates were going to be free?

You don’ t pay a dime … I am privately insured.

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[JoB]

kootch..

ROFLOL…

i noticed you didn’t link to the actual studies that are referred to in the article you cited…

do you even read the article or just the headlines?

“Health insurance premiums for individuals and families also climbed year-over-year, up 3 percent ($186) on average for an individual and 4 percent ($672) on average for a family, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.

During Obama’s term, between 2009 to 2012, premiums have climbed $2,370 for the average family with an employer-provided plan – a rate faster than the during the previous four years under President George W. Bush, according to Kaiser.”

If you follow the links back to the most reliable source, the Kaiser Health Foundation, you will find this table

http://ehbs.kff.org/?page=charts&id=1&sn=6&ch=2659

which puts those “facts” you bandy about into perspective…

the actual average costs for policies from that table

2000 single $2,471 family $6,438

2004 $3,695 $9,950

2008 $4,704 $12,680

2012 $5.615 $15,745

That $3,000 jump you refer to is in the cost of a family policy.. not an individual policy

and.. it follows an unmistakable trend in policy cost increases that are pretty much consistent with those during the Bush administration

and.. the current increase in family policy costs reflect the ability to insure family members on your personal policy for longer periods of time…

and.. you get more benefits from your insurance policy now than you got before the Affordable Care Act

and.. the provisions that will cap policy prices have not yet kicked in…

and.. every person who is now covered by private insurance that was not previously covered reduces the amount of your personal income tax that is spent providing medical care for the uninsured.

Other than that perspective thing…

you almost got it right

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[JoB]

kootch honey..

“You don’ t pay a dime … I am privately insured.”

you don’t pay for my birth control either…

aside from the fact that i am also privately insured…

a little surgery eliminated that problem in the early 70’s…

but that doesn’t change the fact that public money is used to fund viagra

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-204_162-670833.html

the only reason there was a necessity for public policy requiring private insurance companies to fund birth control was that private employers requested plans that did not offer birth control coverage….

if those same private employers (and the catholic church is a private employer) chose to restrict insurance coverage for viagra.. then i would expect public outrage from incensed males..

wouldn’t you?

but they don’t.

http://commonhealth.wbur.org/2012/02/npr-why-catholics-say-no-to-contraception-but-yes-to-viagra

The catholic church has no problem facilitating male ability to impregnate regardless of consent..

but chooses to restrict female ability to limit conception…

do you think there is a double standard in play here?

women do.

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[kootchman]

Ah.. but ED is not a behavior choice… it is a vascular disease…see there is no double standard… just like hormone treatment is approved for endometriosis… even by the Catholic church. See the difference? You are talking about a chronic medical condition..in both cases. Sex is a choice behavior. Use the intelligence god gave you…use BC … or don’t play. Who would be so flippin stupid as to have a quick roll without protection? One is not like the other. Well yes JoB… those are family plans.. I provide for my family,.. what a novel concept. Don’t like the healthcare plan of your private employer.. work somewhere else or buy supplemental coverage. Ain’t no business of government what a company offers as a compensation package.

Kaiser? They looooove Obama. Along with Big Pharma.. they got their deal behind those locked doors…

It’s a distraction… jobs, jobs, jobs…… the social issues are petty distractions.

Remember when you vote .. do it for love of country… not revenge! (thanks for that line Obama…it’s part of the closing statement of Romney… )

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[DBP]

 

 

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[JoB]

kootch..

lordy you do amuse me

“Ah.. but ED is not a behavior choice… it is a vascular disease..”

viagra does not treat the cause of vascular disease

it temporarily alleviates the symptom of erectile dysfunction

nor is all erectile dysfunction caused by vascular disease.

yet the treatment for the symptom of erectile dysfunction is the same

don’t get me wrong..

i am all for guys being able to do their thing but kootch.. their thing is sex

if a woman plays..she should pay even if she said no because you don’t want to fund sex?

but if a guy can’t play we should pay because ?????

Huge double standard kootch.

sorry dude. epic fail.

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[JoB]

kootch..

“It’s a distraction… jobs, jobs, jobs…… the social issues are petty distractions.”

funny you should label women’s reproductive rights a social issue…

when it determines so much economically for a woman.

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[kootchman]

Uh, JoB? See the definition of chronic…. half the old farts here are on some symptom relieving medication or therapy… for an incurable condition where an Rx returns some degree of function or extends life. Fertility and gender are not diseases… or are you suggesting it is?

Back to topic..

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/political_commentary/commentary_by_scott_rasmussen/going_out_on_a_limb_romney_beats_obama_handily

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[JoB]

kootch..

but the purpose of viagra is to eliminate the symptoms of erectile dysfunction and allow those old farts to have sex.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001046/

while viagra may increase the quality of life for all people who take it…

it only increased longevity if your are taking it for this purpose..

“Sildenafil (Revatio) is used to improve the ability to exercise in people with pulmonary arterial hypertension (PAH; high blood pressure in the vessels carrying blood to the lungs, causing shortness of breath, dizziness, and tiredness).”

Want to submit written proof that you are taking your viagra to combat your pulmonary arterial hypertension to have your drug of choice covered?

That’s what you would require women who take birth control pills to control endometriosis.

or perhaps you should just pay to play.

how much is viagra anyway .. and i don’t mean the co-pay…

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-42842870/price-of-viagra-has-risen-108-since-launch-100-pills-now-cost-1400/

wow.. i had no idea. that’s some expensive sex

and you begrudge women their cheap birth control pills?

that’s some chutzpa

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[wakeflood]

The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it’s open…

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[kootchman]

Tch tch tch.. all medications are to restore quality of life,, anti-depressants, pain relief meds, … I did give authorization as do most insured, that the insurance company can question the efficacy, validity of any doctor ordered tests, medications, etc.. you are reaching verrrry far for your argument. If the birth control pills are cheap (last week they weren’t when you had another point to make) buy em! I imagine that if ED meds were $9 per months most men so afflicted would find that money! Ya think? I dunno how much it is…. but heck it’s a click away…

“Cialis, manufactured by Lilly, was introduced in November of 2003 at a wholesale base cost of $8.10 – the exact price of Viagra at that time. Since then, Pfizer and Lilly have raised the cost of Viagra and Cialis at about the same rate. Since 2005, however, Cialis has been slightly more expensive than Viagra, with a maximum difference of $1.50 per pill. Currently, the wholesale base cost for Cialis is $16.67, or about 47 cents more per pill than Viagra. Since its introduction, the cost of Cialis has risen 105%.

There ya go .. there is universal access to birth control. There ARE moral objectors who won’t provide it. They won’t pay for it for moral purposes. It’s not my job or your job to impose our morality on others for a “cheap pill” benefit. No one is restricting access. I have purchased many a Trojan in my day,… should I get reimbursed? A federal program to follow? Hell, they are more expensive than generic birth control. Yet.. my daddy told me it was the responsible thing to do at .65 each. Your Uncle Sugar is not there to solve every need and fulfill every obligation and responsibility. If ya do…get Uncle Sugar on board.. then it’s in the public square.. just like any other public expenditure…. defense, highway construction, crop subsidy… etc…

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[DBP]

[This is the “Losing” Version — Skip down if you’ve already read this section in the “Winning” thread]

Despite appearances, I’m actually a very emotional person, and like a lot of emotional people, I have amazing powers of intuition.

Just by looking at you, for example, I can tell your religion, your favorite TV show, and who you voted for in the last five elections.

Really?

–No. Not really. But I do have good intuition. If I know something about a guy’s childhood, for example, I can tell you a lot about what motivates him and what general path his life will take.

Take the Prez. candidates for example. I watched this excellent Frontline program on the campaign last week, and it gave me a lot of insight about these two men. Why don’t you watch it for yourself first. Then maybe what I’m about to say will make more sense to you.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/choice-2012/#a

In this post, I’m going to talk about Mitt Romney. In the other thread (“Winning”) I’ll talk about President Obama.

****************************************************************************************

After watching the Frontline piece, I suddenly felt that I understood Mitt Romney a lot better. Now I see that one of the things driving him – not just in this campaign but in Life – is his need to impress his father.

Yeah, that’s right. His DEAD father.

How do I know this? Because I’ve been in the same boat as Mitt for much of my own life, and I recognize all the symptoms. The only difference between Mitt and me on that score is that my dad’s not dead yet, so I’ve still got some room to maneuver. But not much.

See, the problem for both Mitt and me is that our fathers were strong, self-important personalities. Now it’s pretty easy for a boy to worship that type of father, as you might imagine, but unfortunately it’s also easy for that type of father to pretty much ignore his son, along with everyone else. When that dynamic gets going, a chasm grows up between between father and son and the son begins to develop his own character without the father even being aware of it. The love is always there, of course, but once the son’s course is set, no matter how well he does in life from then on out, the father will never be able to truly understand or appreciate what he does. –Which is kinda sad, really, because there’s nothing the son wants to do MORE than to impress his father.

Take me and my dad. He’s a wealthy, powerful, 88-year-old Reagan Republican from Iowa and I’m a . . .

I’m a . . .

Well, who the hell knows what I am. But I’m not THAT for God’s sake! Nor did I ever really wish to be. But still, I’ve always been proud of my dad, odd duck that he is. And I’ve always wanted him to appreciate and understand me, even though most of the time, he didn’t.

 

 

 

Now let’s look at Romney and Son. George Romney was a successful businessman who gave that up to become a politician. Then he gave THAT up to become a statesman. Mitt’s trying to do the same thing, obviously, but he only got as far as the politician part before everything started to bog down. But the hell of it is, Mitt doesn’t even know why it’s bogged down. So he just keeps on trying to take that next step in his father’s footsteps, and keeps getting knocked back, ‘cuz he just doesn’t have the juice to be a statesman. Or rather, I should say, he doesn’t have the aptitude.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that. It’s not like he’s a failure or something, for God’s sake! Mitt’s gift is for making money, not politics. Yes, our national economy could be helped by his expertise. But that’s a reason to make him Secretary of Commerce, not President. And it’s just his bad luck that he doesn’t know the difference.

After tomorrow, Mitt Romney really needs to reflect. He’s at the top of his game right now; this is his moment. He’s got a nice family. He’s educated. Good looking. Popular. And if that wasn’t enough, he’s rich as Croesus, too. The American dream just doesn’t get any dreamier than this.

So why? Why is he doing it? Why is he putting himself through this? I’ll say it again: He’s doing it ‘cuz he thinks it’s what Daddy would’ve wanted. Because that’s what Daddy did himself.

I won’t try to explain this phenomenon any further, because I can’t. But I can tell you this, I never made my father proud of me until I STOPPED trying to impress him and started being my own man instead. And if Mitt Romney gets nothing else out of losing this election than that knowledge, it’ll have been well worth the misery.

****************************************************************************************

And for what it’s worth, Mitt, I’m proud of you. No matter what.

From one son to another.

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[redblack]

all right, DP. i’m about 2 seconds from slapping you with a large, wet trout.

you can avoid this unfortunate fate if you tell me how to add carriage returns in WSB forum posts. are you formatting paragraphs or tables in HTML? what gives?

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[redblack]

koo00tch:

man, you just don’t get it.

i can’t believe that you can’t see the hypocrisy of advocating for insurance plans covering ED meds without covering birth control plans.

WTF is wrong with you?

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[DBP]

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[Author]

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