Brace Point – keeping the peasants away?

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  • #598328

    Sonoma
    Participant

    Is Brace Point a private neighborhood, and legally allowed to restrict pedestrian access to certain areas?

    I love walking from Lincoln Park into the Brace Point area, but my perambulations have hit a snag. I used to walk downhill to the Brace Point waterfront, then take the little dirt path between two houses (one has a vegetable garden) uphill to a scenic road with views of the sunset through the trees. That road, in turn, led to Fauntleroy Avenue SW. About a year ago, the residents or the city installed a chain-link fence that made the dirt path a dead-end. You can’t access the scenic road and get back to Fauntleroy anymore. There was a fancy security gate for cars, but pedestrians could walk around it. Now I discover that they’re installed an adjacent gate that restricts pedestrian access – you have to punch in the Secret Code.

    #720538

    LStephens
    Participant

    Sonoma,

    I would suggest you contact the City of Seattle’s Department of Planning & Development and send an e-mail detailing the situation, with addresses of the two houses, and ask them about pedestrian access. Having worked in real estate development and construction, I have always found them to be pretty helpful. Here is a page link that explains DPD’s Land Use Online Resources including a link to send an e-mail question to a Land Use Planner. http://www.seattle.gov/dpd/Research/LandUseQA/default.asp

    Also a phone number for DPD –

    Got Questions? Visit our FAQ or contact us at (206) 684-8600.

    You could also try King County’s Property Division to inquire if there are easements or pedestrian access for that area. Again, be sure to give them the house addresses so they can pinpoint where you are asking about. Here is an e-mail contact address –

    King County’s Property Department mailto: DDESWebInquiries@kingcounty.gov

    Good luck on your search!

    #720539

    redblack
    Participant

    you should be able to access the parcel viewer on king county’s web site, and it will show if the street (and adjacent walkways) are owned by the city, or if it’s part of the private properties that abut it.

    i think zillow would show that information, too.

    #720540

    hopey
    Participant

    If there’s a security gate for cars, then that suggests the area you’re trying to walk through is actually private property. The city would not allow a restriction like that on a public right-of-way.

    However, I concur that the DPD is the right agency to answer your question.

    #720541

    lucky chick
    Member

    Here’s the King Co GIS page. Clink on “Start iMap” and it’s pretty self-explanatory from there. But if you haven’t used it before, just check AND HIGHLIGHT “parcels” in the layers (on right), click “i” on the left panel, then click on the parcel in question for a report that will give you property info.

    http://www.kingcounty.gov/operations/gis/Maps/iMAP.aspx

    I hope that’s enough to get you there, no time for more details at the moment.

    #720542

    DP
    Member

    If the area has historically been used as a public thoroughfare or right-of-way, you may be able to require the owners to leave it unobstructed, even if it is on their property.

    It depends on specific local laws and how much time and interest you have.

    #720543

    MargL
    Member

    “The city would not allow a restriction like that on a public right-of-way.”

    The City also doesn’t ‘allow’ clear cutting on unstable slopes, or public land, but it happens.

    Might be a public right-of-way the neighbors closed just ’cause they thought they could. It’s a good question to ask the City – can it be closed? Should it be closed?

    Are you walking long the beach, between the water and people’s houses? Part of that might be ‘private’ property and it could be the beach-walking the neighbors are trying to discourage.

    #720544

    Sonoma
    Participant

    Thanks, neighbors! I can always count on the West Seattle Blog to come up with help. I emailed DPD.

    #720545

    Ken
    Participant

    google maps and the county GIS system show two private roads in that area.Both are marked as dead end streets where they connect to city streets.

    In WA some of the property deeds extend out in the water far beyond low tide line so even walking on the beach, fishing, diving or swimming can get you arrested. Most other states do not have this ability or have passed public beach laws.

    Discussion here:

    http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/board/archive/index.php/t-34563.html

    #720546

    DP
    Member

    Yeah. Sux, don’t it?

    “This is MY corner of paradise! Get the hell out!”

    Actually, I believe members of federally recognized Indian tribes are allowed to enter all beaches in Washington (public and private) in order to gather shellfish, a right they are entitled to by treaty law.

    So if you can get yourself adopted by a tribe, you can go on any Washington beach you want.

    Make sure to bring your tribal ID and “clam gun” with you, just in case . . .

    #720547

    Sonoma
    Participant

    Ha! I’ll look up my family tree and see if I am at least 1/128 Native American.

    Restricting beach areas to such an extent is ridiculous, indeed. As long as we peasants respect the beach and don’t soil it with our vile detritus and debris, it should be allowed. But that’s another story.

    “Get off my lawn, I mean beach, you durned kids!”

    #720548

    DP
    Member

    Just you wait, Sonoma. When the water rises, all those folks with the “Private Beach” signs will be expecting to be compensated for their loss at Public Expense.

    Ha-RUMPH!

    #720549

    Ken
    Participant

    privatize the profit and socialize the loss.

    It’s the new American way.

    #720550

    datamuse
    Participant

    Hey DP, is that just Washington tribes, or all of them? I have a friend with Lakota tribal membership…

    #720551

    DP
    Member

    DM: It’s just Washington tribes. And I believe it’s further restricted to tribes that historically used Puget Sound waters as a food source.

    So I think that would include Nisquallys and Puyallups, for example, but not Yakamas. Ironically, it would also not include the Duwamish, unless they’ve recently achieved federal recognition. (Anyone know?)

    The good news is that your Lakota friend is free to harvest buffalo — wherever they may roam.

    Thought I saw a one roaming near Alki Drive the other day, as a matter of fact. But alas, I was mistaken; it was merely a pygmy goat.

    (I had been looking through the wrong end of the binoculars!)

    #720552

    F16CrewChief
    Member

    I just moved out of Brace Point a couple months ago. I lived down on 51st by the water off of 98th. There is a gated community down there where Mr. Salty’s lives. Currently, King County owns an easement that cuts through the community. Unfortunately, Mr. Salty didn’t like anyone using the easement, so he fenced it off and even had boulders placed to block people from using the easement. There is a lawsuit being brought against Mr. Salty to remove the fence that was paid for by the local neighbors outside the gated community. I believe that easement was donated to the county by Coleman way back in the day when there was a sanitarium(sp) down there.

    #720553

    JoB
    Participant

    Why does this not surprise me?

    #720554

    datamuse
    Participant

    DP: At least it wasn’t a chupacabra…

    #720555

    Sonoma
    Participant

    Interesting, F16CrewChief. And I didn’t know about the sanitorium. It’s a gorgeous neighborhood. Apparently Mr. Salty doesn’t like sharing his toys with the commoners. I hope to hear from the city soon. And wasn’t Salty’s named West Seattle business of the year? Aside from the view, I don’t see much to recommend them. Then again, if I were a promster with extreme political leanings, I’d love Salty’s!

    #720556

    JoB
    Participant

    you get the same view from the fish place on the water taxi dock..

    and an outside patio to enjoy your beer

    #720557

    DP
    Member

    Sonoma, did you just say something about if you were a porn star???

    Now that is salty!

    #720558

    charlabob
    Participant

    Salty’s is a destination restaurant — it brings business to the community. That’s what makes a business of the year — sometimes things like WSB win — combo of contribution to community and to business bottom lines. Sometimes (like this year) they don’t

    BTW, this is another reason political action is important. If businesses get negative publicity, they bring negative attention and then …. Personally, I just don’t go to Salty’s anymore and we used to be regulars. So far he hasn’t done anything dire enough to replace Wisconsin Repugs on my radar :-)

    #720559

    Sonoma
    Participant

    DP, your post re porn star cracked me up! (P.S. Why is everyone who appears in that stuff called a porn “star”? Aren’t there porn supporting actors, porn character actors, porn non-speaking roles – ahem! – etc.?) Re Salty’s, yes, the owner (a prawn star??) had the truck with the various weird quotes painted on it, including one from A. Hitler.

    See you at the beach, folks!

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