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February 6, 2011 at 6:24 pm #716329
cjboffoliParticipantInteresting. Hillel Cooperman writes extensively (and expertly) for a website called tastingmenu.com. And I actually interviewed him once for a magazine article. So I know that, especially when it comes to food, he usually knows what he’s talking about. But in this instance I still think he’s totally off.
First, I strenuously object to the dismissive notion that New York bagels are “overrated” and that Montreal-tyle bagels are the answer to our prayers. Seattle needs better bagels, not a better gimmick. (Oh see they’re MONTREAL style bagels that are cooked in a WOOD OVEN and cooled on DOWELS!) It’s like we’ve given up hope of ever trying to replicate the NY bagel here so someone has latched on to a more obscure, different style that moves the game and cries victory five minutes after they’ve hung a shingle.
I know Montreal very well and in a city that worships perfect crepes and is full of hot-from-the-oven ficelles, I’d question whether their divided loyalties would even give them the capacity to make a world-class bagel. The Montreal style bagels are too different to compare with the very best of NYC bagels. They’re thinner, less doughy, somewhat sweeter (usually made with no salt). Some people might find them crispy with too much char as wood fires can be tricky to control in terms of temperature consistency and wood ovens can have hot and cool spots that a baker really needs to learn over time. I think the hotter, drier wood fire might also give the more pretzel-like Montreal bagels a shorter shelf life. If you don’t get ’em while they’re hot, prepare to have a sore jaw from chewy overload.
With all of that said, we’re talking about hot bread. So I expect you’ll find Montreal style bagels to be more impressive than all of the fake blueberry, par-baked, pre-frozen, supermarket chain bagels or dull Starbucks pastry case bagels that have left you wondering what all of the bagel fuss has been about all of these years.
February 6, 2011 at 6:33 pm #716330
dawsonctParticipantThanks for the heads-up, twobottles. Have to give them a try.
February 6, 2011 at 7:50 pm #716331
redblackParticipanti bagel your pardon, cjb.
February 12, 2011 at 5:54 pm #716332
cclarueMemberChristopher , What is different about the east coast water that makes it better or different? I lived in jersey for about 8 months when I was 19 so I don’t remember the water I do however remember the horrible produce in the grocery stores., and the extra 20 lbs I gained living there eating diner food. They had something like fries covered in cheese and gravy !! Heart disease in a basket. But it sure was good.
February 12, 2011 at 6:04 pm #716333
cjboffoliParticipantcclarue: Not exactly sure. Something about the water on the West Coast being too alkaline for proper bagel, bread and pizza crust making. Conversely, you cannot get good sour dough bread on the East Coast.
February 13, 2011 at 6:29 am #716334
bsmommaParticipantPike Place Bagel has AMAZING bagels! To me a great (plain) bagel should taste and have the same consistancy/texture as a pretzel……. So good you don’t need cream cheese, blueberries, onions asiogo, etc….. Just warm. Man, I think I’ll be taking a trip downtown soon!
February 13, 2011 at 7:00 am #716335
cjboffoliParticipantSorry, but a pretzel? A real bagel is so much more. And with all due respect, if I had a dime for every time someone told me there were amazing bagels in Seattle, I’d have a Gulfstream jet on 24 hour standby by now.
February 13, 2011 at 7:10 am #716336
JanSParticipantchristopher…remember, many of these people haven’t had your wonderful NY bagels…so to them these are good. It’s subjective…geez. Not everyone here is a troglodyte, for goodness sake…they just taste things differently than(and maybe not as expertly as)you do.
February 13, 2011 at 7:14 am #716337
SonomaParticipantElanta, which Hillel Cooperman raves about, is indeed quite good, though not in a NY way. Much better than the usual roll-with-a-hole. And not so humongous. Trouble is, they’re on Capital Hill – a bit of a drive – and parking is a royal pain.
February 13, 2011 at 7:22 am #716338
cjboffoliParticipantJanS: No one is calling anyone a troglodyte. But people who don’t know from bagels shouldn’t be using superlatives.
February 13, 2011 at 8:14 am #716339
cclarueMemberChristopher I love your input when it has to do with food and if your review is good I want to go. I may still want to go eveN if your review is just ok because my pallette is probably not nearly as sophisticated as yours but I know if you say something is awesome it’s awesome! I really appreciate good food in my older age!:) I recommended blackboard to a friend a few weeks ago and her experience was similar to yours but she waited like 20 minutes before she was acknowleged and food was good and bad.I haven’t tried it but I had at that time only seen good reviews. So keep doing what you do!!!
February 15, 2011 at 3:03 am #716340
ameyers34ParticipantThere is no such thing as a blueberry bagel. Blueberry muffins? Sure. But blueberry bagels? They don’t exist. I refuse to acknowledge them. Fruit and bagels do not go together, period.
In NY, it’s the “hard water” that makes the bagels and pizza different and arguably better than anywhere else. In other words, it’s the water that you don’t want to drink that helps produce a better bagel.
I have yet to find a quality deli or bagel place in Washington. I did find a place to get a decent corned beef sandwich down in Portland, but I can’t even remember the name of that place since I don’t go down there for work anymore. Sad.
February 15, 2011 at 4:26 am #716341
austinMemberI refuse to acknowledge any of you, therefore you don’t exist.
February 15, 2011 at 5:55 am #716342
cjboffoliParticipantcclarue: Thank you for the kind words.
austin: Would you please tell King County I don’t exist so maybe they’ll stop sending me a property tax bill? ;-)
ameyers34: New York City actually has some of the cleanest, tastiest drinking water in the country. I’d drink it any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Kenny & Zuke’s Deli on SW Stark Street in Portland does an excellent corned beef sandwich.
February 15, 2011 at 10:54 pm #716343
bsmommaParticipantYes, a Pretzel. A soft unsalted Pretzel. Maybe you’ve just never had a great pretzel. I have been to the East Coast MANY times. I have had there amazing bagels. And to me they taste like a fresh warm soft unsalted pretzel. And a Salted Bagel tastes like a fresh hot soft salted pretzel.
February 16, 2011 at 1:45 am #716344
cjboffoliParticipantbsmomma: Hot, soft pretzels (with big crystals of salt and maybe a bit of mustard) are wonderful. But they’re way too soft to even approach the texture of a bagel. They also have a somewhat sweeter, maltier outer coating. Very different.
February 18, 2011 at 11:06 pm #716345
charlabobParticipanthttp://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2011/02/18/hh-bagels-files-for-bankruptcy-protection/
Not a good omen — not the best, but good (if you avoid the blueberries or chocolate chips.)
February 19, 2011 at 5:52 am #716346
cjboffoliParticipantFebruary 19, 2011 at 6:58 am #716347
JanSParticipantah, but it’s water from the east coast ;-)
February 19, 2011 at 10:15 am #716348
HMC RichParticipantBeing called a schmuck while not knowing what to order on Houston Street. Oy Vey.
February 19, 2011 at 2:18 pm #716349
ZenguyParticipantI say appreciate what you do have, Zatz, Noah’s is pretty good imho, Pike Place and I am sure there are more. No one will ever beat NY in bagels, lox or pizza!
February 19, 2011 at 2:50 pm #716350
carterParticipantI’m a former East Coast guy who knows and enjoys a good bagel (not so often as I get older). Seattle lacks a bagel place worth the tremendous amount of calories in them. I make an annual trip to the Montreal Jazz Festival and there is nothing like a misshaped wood-fired bagel (crispy on the outside, moist, doughy, and not the size of body pillows) tossed at you fresh from the oven, then you break off a chunk and with steam rising from it, you shove it a tub of cream cheese . . .
February 19, 2011 at 5:12 pm #716351
johnnyblegsMembercarter – have you tried Eltana? Haven’t been myself but it sounds exactly as you describe.
http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/voracious/2011/02/eltana_montreal_bagels.php
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