FOLLOWUP: Bus-stop murder suspect arraigned

Susan August 29, 2018 (12:27 pm)

Two comments:- I can only begin to imagine how the floor fell out from under his mother when she recognized his picture. My heart breaks for her.- Good for the court prohibiting photographing the defendant’s face. Why do the media persist in publishing photos of shooters and other violent defendents?? (I do know…it sells better.) But it serves as a powerful motivator for other dangerously troubled people to commit violence so they, too, can get their moment of recognition/”fame.” It’s an easy reward to remove, so why don’t we?

Question Authority August 29, 2018 (8:47 pm)

You actually think people risk decades or more of incarceration just to have their moment of fame by a portrait? We have all seen the Metro camera footage clearly showing his mug, why stop now when his stupid punk a– actions rightfully took away his future but made all of us safer.
- Benjamin September 14, 2018 (6:19 am)
  
  It’s mind boggling how all you people hear one side of the story and just run with it

YeahRight August 29, 2018 (1:01 pm)

AAHAHAHHAHAHAHA “not guilty” with camera and eyewitnesses and his own mom saying otherwise.

Jethro Marx August 29, 2018 (1:14 pm)

I don’t recall the shooting being caught on camera; as to eyewitnesses, people see things differently, and people who watch too much television hold eyewitness accounts in higher esteem than, say, a detective.
- Tim August 29, 2018 (1:54 pm)
  
  Why are you acting as a free internet defense attorney for a murderer, bud?
  - Jethro Marx August 29, 2018 (9:44 pm)
    
    Working backwards, one, I am not a bud. Two, you mean, alleged murderer. Three, I assume he has legal defense available to him- that ain’t me, I’m just a fan of salient facts.
    - Seven August 30, 2018 (12:16 pm)
      
      Four- salient facts in support of alleged murderer. Five- alleged murderer bud.
Think think think August 30, 2018 (12:12 am)

There are a hundreds of people, every year for the last 2 decades, exonerated of crimes where the cops & prosecutor painted them as horrible murderers. Biggest loser in all these cases? Us. The actual assailants were left to rape/assault/rob/kill/murder more people. If you’re cheering for a short trial with no due process, you’re on the side of lawlessness.To that end, please check yourself before I have to direct your self, homey.

wscommuter August 29, 2018 (1:47 pm)

@Yeahright. Pleading not guilty is nothing more than standard procedure at this point. It would be malpractice for the defense to plead anything else at this early stage of the case. The case will take some time to be resolved. But your comments are unhelpful. This is an unimaginable tragedy for the Fehlen family who are long-time West Seattle residents and might be reading the Blog, so there’s no need to be an idiot on this board. You might think you’re supporting them with your ranting, but you’re not.

Seattle August 29, 2018 (2:08 pm)

You are right
ktrapp August 29, 2018 (2:14 pm)

Exactly. I’m not even sure it’s possible for a defendant to plead guilty at the arraignment hearing. I’ve seen instances where a defendant attempted to plead guilty at that point, but the judge wouldn’t allow it to be entered. An arraignment hearing is just a perfunctory step, where the defendant is officially charged with the crime. They’re usually not allowed to plead guilty at that point, as the court wants to assure that they have time to consider the charges against them.

Beth August 29, 2018 (2:06 pm)

Let’s not forget Taylor. 💔https://www.emmickfunerals.com/notices/Taylor-Craig-Fehlen

Max September 3, 2018 (2:18 am)

Taylor will never be forgotten he was s brilliant, kind and great man he was funny and witty.he will always be in my heart

Wsresident August 29, 2018 (2:22 pm)

Can someone explain if there was a motive/ a plan to kill this guy, why is he being charged with second degree? Shouldn’t it be first degree man slaughter?

Coldheart Craig August 29, 2018 (4:32 pm)

IANAL, but if you assault someone with a high probability that it will result in their death, pre-planned or not, that is murder. Manslaughter can only be applied if there was a good possibility that the assault would not result in death. It’s pretty unlikely someone shoots another person without knowing it’s going to kill them.
- Wsresident August 29, 2018 (10:12 pm)
  
  My verbiage was incorrect. I’m asking why it wasn’t first degree murder with the obvious I’ll intent, and pre-meditation.

they August 29, 2018 (3:26 pm)

I’ll never understand how someone can intentionally strip the life from somebody and someday be able to walk the earth a freeperson or even be given the hope of walking the earth as a freeperson ever again…

A August 29, 2018 (4:45 pm)

Not only will this murderer be able to walk the streets a free man again, he will likely be out before he’s 50 maybe even before he’s 40. This murdering, poor excuse for a human will have multiple decades to live a free life. He ended the life of an innocent man and forever changed the lives of that man’s family therefore the only fair punishment would be life in prison with no chance of parole
- truth August 29, 2018 (5:21 pm)
  
  Yes, PUNISHMENT!!!!! RAWR! Just kidding, obviously. The suspect is young & he should not spend the rest of his life in prison–doing that would help absolutely nobody. And if you knee-jerk bloodthirsty nitwits really thought about the issue you’d arrive at the same conclusion.
truth August 29, 2018 (5:17 pm)

You pretty well summed up my aversion to the death penalty. Well said.

Huck August 30, 2018 (6:59 am)

@TruthI bet if a family member of yours were the victim you wouldn’t be so eager to let this kid go free.

Max September 3, 2018 (2:22 am)

I agree!!this kid deserves to spend the rest of his life away he took a human life and he should be punished for that we was walking around carrying a gun like s big man now he should face the consequences of his acts I got no sympathy for this murderer

truth August 30, 2018 (8:10 am)

What a strange bet. I would like to think I am secure enough in my convictions and my morals that even in such a case I would not want a kid to spend his life in jail. Sometimes mercy and compassion can be the best way to honor victims… better than anger and a thirst for vengeance at least.

CMT August 30, 2018 (8:57 am)

One can have mercy and compassion for the young man who made a life ending decision but we, as a society, can’t sacrifice justice. A horrendous crime was committed and the person who committed it must face the consequences that he was well aware of when he made his choice. I don’t support the death penalty.
- truth August 30, 2018 (9:42 am)
  
  CMT, I agree that actions have (and should have) consequences. As for questions of justice… I think the concept of justice is elusive enough that it’s almost meaningless–and it changes based on which lens we are looking through–justice for the victim (an odd stance since the dead don’t care)? Justice for the family of the victim? Justice for the community? Justice for the criminal? Despite the fact that different levels of sentencing don’t seem to have any impact on crimes like murder, I agree that punishment should be rendered. But I also do not think, in situations such as these, that two lives ended is better–in any way, shape, or form–than one life ended.
  - Hardly August 30, 2018 (12:12 pm)
    
    I don’t agree. You pose as if it’s an equal exchange- a life for a life- but that’s not fair, as the victim had no say in this deal. You shouldn’t have the choice to only swap your life for another. The person who took the others life should have to pay more- and if the most he can pay is life without parole- so be it. I don’t see any bloodthirst about it. Don’t take other peoples lives away from them, and their families.
    - truth August 30, 2018 (12:53 pm)
      
      Nobody is saying it’s not a crime. Nobody is saying people should kill (I mean, except for all the people in various threads saying the suspect should die). The question I’d ask you is why a criminal should “have to pay more.” What is the purpose of a life in jail without parole? Do you think punishments like this will deter future crime (they don’t)? Do you just think this random punishment is just, in whatever sense you are using? Are you worried the suspect, if let out of jail, would commit more crimes? You are touching on the surface but not going much below it.
    - Hardly August 30, 2018 (1:39 pm)
      
      I stated the reason a murderer should pay more- because it’s not just an equal exchange. No one else should decide you can’t live anymore. You say don’t end two lives- but the alleged killer is the only one who ended a life. Life WO parole is not a life ended, it is a life that can not again kill another. This person is old enough to carry a gun and(allegedly) use it to murder someone. He knew what a gun is used for when he stuck it in his pants that morning, and he knew he was going to shoot that man when he stood and hooded and prepared to exit the bus that evening. He should never again be free to maliciously pull the stop cord on the bus, or kill people, or cause any more pain. This will protect others from him. The end. And that punishment still does not compare to the one that he gave another.
    - truth August 31, 2018 (10:02 am)
      
      Dear CMT, thank you for your civility and for giving me a lot to think about. It’s a horribly difficult conversation to have, for obvious reasons, but I sincerely appreciate your views and your careful reasoning–even when we disagree.
  - CMT August 30, 2018 (4:11 pm)
    
    I don’t think the concept of justice is as elusive as you would characterize it to be. In this context it is fundamental fairness that the person who voluntarily chose to end the life of another should not have the privilege of freedom, particularly since the consequence of a lengthy prison sentence was known to him prior to him voluntarily taking the action. To be honest, whether or not this is your intention, you come across as giving little weight to the fact that a life was taken by this young man in cold blood. You indicate you agree there should be consequences. What would appropriate consequences be in your mind and what would would there purpose be?
    - truth August 30, 2018 (5:18 pm)
      
      What would I feel are appropriate consequences? I think the strongest consequences will be internal to him, and last for the rest of his life. What do I think society should impose on him? A couple years in jail, decades of community service and a whole ton of counseling. As for the first part–you didn’t really answer anything, you just replaced the word “justice” with “fairness”. You posit that there is some sort of intangible immutable “fundamental fairness” but again you don’t say why it is fair or for whom it is fair. Are you trying to be fair to the suspect? The victim (who obviously doesn’t care)? The victim’s family? Bus riders? Everyone? Why is life without parole fair? What makes it fair? What if life without parole increases the chance he will commit more crimes? What if life without parole costs taxpayers tons of money?
    - CMT August 31, 2018 (9:04 am)
      
      Truth – That’s because I think notions of justice and fairness are understandable at base, regardless of the fact that people may disagree what is fair in a particular circumstance. A couple of years in jail for taking another life in cold-blood. I think most people will agree that that is not “fair” under all but the most strained interpretations of fairness. And in answer to your question, I’m referring to fairness to the victim (the fact that the shooter stripped the victim of life does not strip the victim of the right to a fair resolution), to the victim’s family, to a society that values human life, to individuals that want to live in a society where it is unacceptable to gun down another human being for no reason; to a justice system that lays out the consequences for deliberately killing another; to a society that prioritizes the safety of its citizens over the individual circumstances of those that choose unprovoked violence. The gap between our views is likely to large to bridge on the comments section of the WS Blog but I respect your right to your view. Thank you for the discussion.
    - truth August 31, 2018 (10:12 am)
      
      (I originally posted this in wrong place and wanted to make sure you saw it, please excuse the re-post)Dear CMT, thank you for your civility and for giving me a lot to think about. It’s a horribly difficult conversation to have, for obvious reasons, but I sincerely appreciate your views and your careful reasoning–even when we disagree.
B.W. August 30, 2018 (10:59 pm)

Yes! Let’s let him out ASAP. I’m sure he’s sorry and wouldn’t take another life just because. Remember he’s just a “kid.”
- truth August 31, 2018 (10:59 am)
  
  BW, your argument as I understand it is borne out of worry that the suspect will kill again. That is a reasonable concern but it is not supported by any evidence. Murder recidivism rates are incredibly, incredibly, low. Perhaps the biggest study on this tracked 988 convicted murderers who were released from prison over the course of 20 years. Out of the nearly thousand people, NOBODY was re-arrested for murder. I don’t think your concerns about him taking “another life just because” are a worthy argument for long term incarceration. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/once-a-criminal-always-a-criminal/

Sunnydayz August 30, 2018 (2:53 pm)

This creature who gunned down an innocent man should spend the rest of his miserable life in prison. its not s matter of punishment. This young vermin has given up his right to live in our society

Mitch September 1, 2018 (2:26 am)

Don’t have time to respond to the all the pound of fleshers, but you, Sunnydayz, what freaking rock did you crawl out from under?

truth August 30, 2018 (3:22 pm)

You: It’s not a matter of punishment but we should punish him in the following way!

they August 30, 2018 (3:43 pm)

Life without the possibility of parole… and in the future if another is thinking about taking a life, but hesitated just a second because a memory of a life sentence without the possibility of parole flashed through there mind, it might be the difference of somebody slipping away..

truth August 30, 2018 (5:12 pm)

C’mon man, the least you can do is pay attention. Studies have repeatedly shown that punishment (i.e., the death penalty) does not deter would-be murderers. So yeah, there goes your argument. Try again.
- Hardly August 30, 2018 (11:23 pm)
  
  @truth- you lost me with your stance that a dead person does not care. What does that mean? How little honor you would afford to someone (even a good someone) shot down by a ruthless piece of trash?! It seems the message you would send to the victim and his family is that this life had no value, that we care not about that murdered person- their very essence is so unimportant to society, that we are more concerned with shielding his killer from discomfort. You say prison sentence will not deter a murderer, cause a murderer gonna murder. There is a way to deter a murderer from killing- keep him in prison. When a person goes and willfully kills a random stranger- that person has done the worst thing that can be done. I don’t care about punishing that killer. I’m not interested in making them repent or change- I don’t care. That killer should go away, to never hurt another person, and to give closure and honor to the victim and his family. If you cared at all about the victim or his loved ones or civilized society- you would not minimize this act, or support this ruthless alleged murderer.
  - truth August 30, 2018 (11:57 pm)
    
    Really? That is what confused you? That the dead don’t care? I don’t see how it dishonors anyone to point out that once you’re dead you’re dead–in case you skipped biology, that means you don’t care anymore… Similarly, you are interested in sending a message to the victim? He ain’t gonna get your message man. Sorry, but that’s how it is. Now I’m not sure why you think I believe life has no value–I think life is all we got. Read more carefully, please. As for the rest of your stance: you have narrowed it down to two points. 1) you think the killer should be in prison so he doesn’t kill again. And 2) you think he should be in prison to give closure and honor to the victim (again, he don’t care) and his family. Let me address these points. 1) If you are worried about the killer “hurt(ing) another person” then, somewhat ironically, you really don’t want them in jail. There are studies and stats and blah blah blah, but trust me. 2) You think punishment (death penalty. life in prison, whatever) of the killer will “give closure” to the family? It’s never that easy. I would that it were. But that is not where closure, if it comes at all, comes from.
    - Hardly August 31, 2018 (1:23 am)
      
      @truth- oh yeah, that’s right. I finally get it. Thank you.

Huck August 30, 2018 (11:06 pm)

@Truth:I agree that punishing this kid will not deter future crimes however I personally don’t care. For me punishment is not about deterrence. It’s about getting this kid off the streets for good.

truth August 30, 2018 (11:59 pm)

Huck, I hope you reconsider letting anger drive your quest for what is right.
- Canton August 31, 2018 (6:35 am)
  
  Your reasoning is quite twisted. Is there no one in your life, that would care if you die, since obviously you wouldn’t? A couple years punishment, for negating 37 years of life? You must know this criminal on some level, to make these assertions. Would you open your home to rehab this criminal in a couple years?
  - truth August 31, 2018 (7:43 am)
    
    Canton, either intentionally or not you’ve misread me. I never said nobody cares about the victim. I said the victim doesn’t care. There is a huge difference. It is horrible that he is dead, people are utterly devastated by the loss. As to your other points… 1) I never suggested a couple years punishment. I said a couple years of jail. There is a difference. 2) The age of the victim doesn’t seem relevant here. 3) His death–frankly anyone’s death–does not negate their life. His 37 years of life cannot possibly be negated–he was by all accounts a wonderful, wonderful person. His death is awful beyond belief, but his death does not negate his life or diminish how his life touched others. 4) I knew we’d get to this part sooner or later–no, I don’t know the criminal, and have no relation to his family or any of this (other than living in West Seattle). 5) I am no counselor, so that doesn’t seem fruitful. But if you are asking if I would let him in my home? Yes. Him and others who have done worse.
    - truth August 31, 2018 (12:09 pm)
      
      Yes, I thought that sooner or later someone would claim I was only interested or arguing or whatever because I knew the suspect, or knew his family. Are you surprised that I thought that’d happen? You shouldn’t be, since you’re the one that made the claim. As for the rest… You are of course within your rights to call my arguments insensitive and asinine. But I believe what I am saying and I think there is much merit in my stance. And I do not think discussion around justice and punishment and mercy and revenge and rehabilitation are worthless.
    - Canton August 31, 2018 (8:42 pm)
      
      Not trying to argue, as this is very sensitive to those that knew the victim. Do you know Mr. Fehlen well enough to know if he cares if he is alive or not? Do you really believe, that someone that instigates a confrontation, then kills someone, deserves the public’s compassion? There is a law of the land, that most follow, you know basic stuff, don’t kill, don’t steal, just the laws that allow people to live their normal lives.
    - Msx September 3, 2018 (2:38 am)
      
      I don’t understand why people keep on trying to defend the indefensible this kid comited a crime, he took a life, he knew what he was doing from the moment he decided to carry a gun, got in the bus and start to instigate the passengers he knew what he was up to he want it to prove himself he was tough now he should face the concecuences
    - truth September 1, 2018 (9:07 am)
      
      Canton, yes, as I have repeatedly said I believe murderers and others should be treated with mercy. I think mercy for those we have, as a society, an ability to punish is important. You write of “the law of the land” but I’m not sure why you’re talking about it. I have never suggested he didn’t break the law–I have never suggested the suspect didn’t murder. What I have been talking about is this: what do we do with him now? A number of people have been saying, over and over again, that they want him to rot in jail for the rest of his life. Some people said they want him to be killed. I am arguing that they are wrong–that punishments like that are wrong. I do think he should be punished, I do think we should endeavor to make him into a person that will never kill again. But I think we can accomplish that, and I think we should strive for that, as hard as it is.

MsD August 31, 2018 (10:41 pm)

I don’t think Truth has anything to do with the suspect. I picture him/her as someone with a Philosophy/Sociology undergrad and a superiority complex looking to stir the pot. Probably best to ignore. I have human compassion for the shooter, I can’t even comprehend what happened to turn him into someone who’d commit this crime, considering the other commenters who’ve said he was a sweet kid and they are shocked that this happened. And yes, if he killed a family member or friend of mine, I’d want some sort of traumatic event considered in his punishment, if that indeed happened. If he just turned hard or was trying to impress someone, then I think the rest of his life is best spent behind bars. The sad fact is that brains that aren’t fully formed still have the ability to seek out weapons of destruction and end lives. If we had a system that could take these kids and give them focused counseling and life skills and deliver them into a safe environment where they could thrive, I would look at it differently, but the reality is that they typically come out more hard than they go in. This kid is not going to come out at age 38 or 48 ready to be a solid citizen.

truth September 1, 2018 (9:14 am)

Yes indeed, the vengeance-laced rants about wanting the suspect to miserably rot in jail for 80 years aren’t “looking to stir the pot.” Nope, instead it’s me. To be clear, your logic is this: we should put him in prison for a couple decades, but after he’s been in for that long, oops, turns out we can’t let release him now because jail has hardened him into someone who can’t “be a solid citizen”? That’s your idea of what is right? Punish him with jail and then punish him for being jailed? Maybe it’s just my superiority complex but, uh, damn.
truth September 1, 2018 (3:03 pm)

D: I typed out a reply earlier today but I fear it was lost somewhere in the bowels of the internet. Roughly, here was my response. 1) I have never been so deeply insulted–undergrad philosophy major? Even worse, sociology?!? I shudder. 2) No, I am not looking to stir the pot–my goal is not to annoy or irritate, I fervently want people to take a breath and think about crime and punishment. Look, I see a lot of comments along the lines of “the suspect should be killed” or “let him rot” and I notice you don’t accuse them of just stirring the pot. But I try to have a conversation about what is right, and what would be a better approach, and somehow in your eyes I am the trouble-maker? I respectfully disagree. 3) I find your catch-22 at the end depressing. Maybe you do too. You seem to agree he shouldn’t spend life in jail, but then you suggest after a couple decades in jail he’ll be hardened enough that he’ll never “be a solid citizen” so, whoops, guess we’ll just have to keep him in jail. This logic, this system, simply doesn’t work, we need something better. And if me delving into the muck of the matter pisses people off, well, so be it.

Huck September 1, 2018 (8:42 am)

Truth lives in a make believe world and I guarantee you he/she nor anyone close to him/her has ever been a victim of violent crime. My how his/her tune would change.

WiseWoman September 10, 2018 (1:06 pm)

1. My heart goes out to Taylor’s friends & family for their grief and suffering.2. How the heck does a 16yr old get a gun?3. Why are we not holding parents accountable for raising their kids properly across all cultures?4. Kids/people who end up in juvy or prison usually become better criminals, save the few that grow up and are reformed.5. Life in prison costs taxpayers $$$.6. Money better spent on intensive programs teaching these kids struggling to be men and women, skills to create a future and having ways of expressing hostilities in proper outlets not rage.7. The current culture re immigration is a factor in society and even in this case. 8. Punishment needs to occur, due process as well, but we are using a broken system made up of broken individuals on both sides of the law. 9. Keep your kids close, spend time, keep em busy, educated, tired, nutritioned, with open communication.10. Government intrusion into families usually makes them more broken, (I.E. CPS)11. Social media is cruel for young adults, bullying, not fitting in, instant gratification replacing hard work.12. Drugs of all kinds (RX illegal) and alcohol create a careless attitude. And masks the real issues.Society has flaws that needs fixing and it starts with love, compassion and strict parenting or regimines at an early age plus morals, values and making the most of teachable moments thru mentoring. Judgments dont help anyone in the end.If you do the crime you can do the time. I believe these types of cases are preventable and it’s not about the guns or legislation, its about the individual and experiences from his perception. Taking a life is a life ending move which these kids nowadays don’t learn how to deal with consequences to learn from their actions, sadly. This is where we shall start in society. It’s very sad that Taylor won’t get the chance to see his alleged murderer repent or be remorseful. That’s another lost opportunity for a boy to learn from a man.