Sensitivity

[beachdrivegirl]

So people are probably going to attack what I am going to post here but I dont care. i think that people are being overly sensitive to people’s choice of words on this blog. It is true that if House would have posted the other post and just replaced the word strait people would have been offended. Here take a look for your own selves:

“We are thinking of starting a social group for the strait community here in West Seattle. Anyone interested? Give us your ideas for get togethers, activities, etc.

We just don’t ever hang out over at the clubs in Downtown Seattle and we really don’t like attending any of the events over there. We’ve always thought it would be nice to have a group of folks who could get together over here on this side of the bridge.

Just a thought… let us know what you think.”

No one that is strait would have ever posted that. I dont think Shibaguyz meant for the post to be offensive but yes it was a little bit offensive and I for one was offended by the post. I did not open the post back up or respond to it beause I just decided that i didnt need to respond to it or aknowledge it. However, with that being said, I dont think people have the right to get so defensive on this blog. yes this is my opinion but the moment people do not agree with some on here you attack them and call them names. Rather than stop and think about what they are saying. I know I have done the same in some of the political threads but have tried to correct myself because I actually have *enjoyed* hearing others thoughts on issues, canidates, and social settings etc. I have learned alot from each and every poster on this blog. I think it is a shame that people are trying to be so cliquish and giving up the opportunity to meet ten other peopel because they dont agree with one of ten. I guess at this point, I am just trying to urge people not to be overly sensitive and not to attack those that they do not agree with on a constant bases. I understand that we all have different opinioins I enjoy hearing them but I am urging everyone to refrain from the name calling and not to take things so personally. And, IMO, if you can not do that just dont respond to the post.

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[Shibaguyz]

It’s not the same. You and anyone else can have that opinion, but the LGBT community wanting to have a meet up is not the same as you or anyone else rewording my original post to read “straight.”

It is not the same thing. I realize that, in your opinion, it is. However, in my opinion it is not. Just feel like I wanted to finally say that.

Please note, this is not attacking you, attacking House, attacking JT or attacking NR. Just my opinion stated very plainly and non-emotionally.

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[beachdrivegirl]

Shibaguyz its not about that post in general.That topic/post(s) is just the latest of a few different ones where I feel that people are being overly sensitive/defensive and they attack those that have a different opinion then them i am just suggesting a different solution other than calling people names etc.

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[meg]

I agree….it is definatly NOT the same. Having a “straight group meet up” would be as ludicrous as having a “white rich ablebodied bio & gender expressing male group meet up”. The world is oriented towards heteronormativity, whiteness, maleness, able bodied, gender conforming, moneyed, etc…. In that world there is a place and need for most people to have some form or degree of an idenity based community. We love and desperately need our allies…but let us first ‘find’ other. If we as a community are going to confront our “isms” of racism, sexism, ableism, classism, etc. then we need to allow people to build their own community in a place of safety. This is in no way being exclusive and to believe so is not seeing your place of ‘straight privilege’. For example, if there was a “queer people of color” meet up….while being queer and a huge ally, I would never presume that the initial meet up would be open to me. To assume that would be evidence of my white privilege.

Anyhow, those are just my thoughts….do with it what you will.

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[soclwrkrinmotn]

Again, I concur with Shibaguyz. It isn’t the same, and I explained why in a response to House, who I will have an on-going–at times, heated–debate with until he sees things my way. (Yes, that is my own dose ‘o sarcasm today.)

And attacking JT never even crossed my mind. There’s a valid point there, but society hasn’t caught up with it. I wish it would.

But here’s why I agree with Shibaguyz: to be “straight” is deemed the “norm”…it is represented in society as the norm, and again I quote myself (so odd):

“…like institutional racism and sexism, heterosexism pervades societal customs and institutions, operates through a dual process of invisibility and attack. Homosexuality usually remains culturally invisible; when people who engage in homosexual behavior or who are identified as homosexual become visible, they are subject to attack by society.”

I am not saying that the WS LGBT community was being attacked, although I do believe some people were engaging in that, but that is neither here nor there.

The point is this: straight folks don’t have to worry about that. When some folks they do feel put on the spot for being straight, then…well, here we are. *smile*

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[TheHouse]

BGD, you’re attempting to reason with people that cannot comprehend reasoning. It was a valiant attempt and you’re correct.

The posts in between yours and mine are indicative that cannot comprehend that fact that they are acting exactly how they expect others not to act. We commonly call those people hypocrites.

I’m done commenting on this whole thing. I made my point to several of you. To the ones that either don’t understand or refuse to understand will continue to keep smiles on their faces because the breeze blowing between each ear is tickling the inside of their head.

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[Jiggers]

As for me…how does that song go..”I drink alone..I prefer to be by myself”

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[meg]

The House-I don’t know your demographics, but it seems clear that you are deluded by your positionality in the world….and are generally uninterested in understanding anyone elses. How “lucky” you are to be able to go through the world empowered by your position enough to be offended when you are called to question your sense of entitlement and privilege.

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[hopey]

I think part of the thin-skinned-ness in these forums is due to the relatively small number of folks who frequent them. As the forums become more populous, a thicker skin will be necessary. I too am surprised at some of the hypersensitivity displayed here, by conservatives and liberals alike.

Oh, and House, your post had nothing to do with “reason”. That post was flat-out mockery. I think you even know it. You were trying to make a point, but it was mockery nonetheless.

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[Rasmus]

hopey : I think you hit the nail on the head here. Small community = higher sensitivity.

It doesn’t matter if said community is online or offline; small town communities tend to be less accepting of those who stand out from the crowd (and it doesn’t matter how they stand out, either) than metropolis dwellers do. And so it is with web communities, too.

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[beachdrivegirl]

soclwrkrinmotn and meg did you even bother to read the original post??? At least Shibaguyz did and I respect what he said but you went right along with what he said without even bothering to read the post. This post was not about whether or not the House’s post was the same as Shibaquyz. This post was about the sensitivity of some posters. Some posters on this forum are to sensitive to others posts and I was just trying to suggest ways to get over or cope with the sensitivity because personally i could do with out reading all of the name calling that goes on. I like reading and hearing about both sides of everything, and I dont want some peoples name calling to chase lurkers and current posters away becuase they are afraid that they will be attacked for their ideas and views.

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[Jiggers]

Whaaaaaaaa mummy they’re not playing nicely mummy. Whaaaaaaa……………….

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[beachdrivegirl]

wow thanks for the maturity jiggers.

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[Shibaguyz]

BDG – How can you say this is not about my original post when you quoted it exactly? I get it that you feel like people are being overly sensitive. But flat out mockery in some of the threads about this particular topic is insulting and dismissive. Also dismissive is saying we are just being overly sensitive.

When you have fought hard and long for your rights, when you have watched people murdered for the right to be who they are, when people are beaten and killed because of who they are: these are the situations that have made us passionate. These are the life experiences that give us the right to defend ourselves when we feel like we are being attacked whether through direct words, passive aggressive innuendo, or being told we just need to not be so sensitive.

House – hypocritical? How are those post hypocritical? You do like to throw around those buzz words that get people worked up don’t you? And you just love it when it works don’t you? I get it… you like confrontation. I just wish others would realize that too and let your inflammatory comments lay there. Sometimes I agree with you. Not in this case. I don’t see how they are being unreasonable or hypocritical. You full on mocked me and made this something ugly. People didn’t like that and told you so. You didn’t like it that they didn’t like what you said so you started calling them unreasonable and other buzz words that cause a stink in forums.

You disagree with us, we disagree with you. Big deal. That’s what the forums are about. But mockery and name calling? I would expect more from intelligent people.

Jiggers – give me a break.

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[beachdrivegirl]

I posted the rebuttal that House could have posted here because I wanted you as well as others to actually read what you wrote and how it could have sounded to some one who was strait.

The second part of my post was becasue I found it asanine that individuals felt entitled to attacking House’s post but yet said nothing or even supported your post. That is holding a double standard and is very cliquish. And personally I left high school behind me years ago so I can go without the cliques. There were many other political correct ways to have made your post not so cliquish to beign with but you chose not to post it that way. Church groups, high schools, sports groups do it all the time.

I was not trying to further the debate as to why one post was/is better than the other I honestly was trying to bring up a couple of different things.

1) I was hoping that by posting this here with strait replacing LGBT I was hoping that people would be mature enough to see how people might ge tmistaken.

2) I was suggesting ways to go about a post you find offensive rather than name calling.

3) I was tyring to remind people that this is a public blog and that we shoudl be accepting of everyones viewpoints etc and try to thicken our skin a bit because personally I like reading about ALL viewpoints, backgrounds etc. and would actually be quite board if certain people ran others away.

I apologize if I did not write it that way to begin with but obviously although I am college educated I am sure you can see from my spelling mistakes in my posts I suck @ english.

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[Shibaguyz]

BGD –

1. I’m sorry that you felt like I needed educated on what my post sounded like to straight people. I don’t. I will state absolutely that it is NOT the same for the LGBT community to want to get together for coffee as replacing my words with your own “straight” word.

2. I agree, the name calling is a little unintelligent at best.

3. I agree: public blog, all viewpoints. However, telling a group of people who have been attacked physically, mentally & spiritually to be more thick skinned is a little insulting. Your point that, in general, you have to be a little thick skinned if you are going to put your point of view out there in cyberspace, is well taken and I know I have to remind myself of that at times. However, when it becomes a personal attack and name calling (back to your #2), it’s something I just won’t swallow.

All in all, I understand what you are trying to say now. You can understand how seeing my own post slung around ONCE AGAIN in ANOTHER thread is a little tiresome.

Thank you for your clarification.

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[soclwrkrinmotn]

And unfortunately, I did read your post, BDG.

And it still is making me angry. I have a lot of harsh words to say, but I think I will keep them to myself. Perhaps you may consider the same.

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[bunnypug]

In my experience I have found that often people who claim others are being too sensitive do so from a place of privilege. Unearned privilege is real and yet invisible. Those of us who carry it through life never understand what doors are opened for us by the simple fact of who we are. Hence, we may not understand what doors are slammed in others’ faces simply because of who they are.

In a perfect world we should all be welcome everywhere. Unfortunately many of us have NOT been welcomed but rather have been systematically shut out because of race, religion, sex, gender, size, wealth or sexuality.

Any of us can feel bad and have hurt feelings. This is not the same and should not be equivocated with being shut out or attacked due to one’s race or orientation. None of us can truly understand what another person carries through this world. Affirming safe space for people to come together who share common experiences is, in my mind, very basic.

What I find disappointing is that this concept seems to have kicked up a great deal of controversy.

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[Anonymous]

As far as I know, C&P hasn’t volunteered to close their doors to straight people. Will unsuspecting straight customers make the space less safe and affirming? Or do just uninvited straight forum members make it less safe and affirming? Why are straight people not allowed to feel insulted by the implication that their presence is some how threatening?

Why, as a lesbian, am I not allowed to find this idea disagreeable as well? I would feel so much more safe, affirmed, and accepted if a huge turn out of straight people came to say we’re here for you.

In no way do I think any type of group, can’t or shouldn’t get together. However, to me what is disagreeable, is the LGBT community’s insistence that the straight community not have or discuss their feelings. Or that some how they are not valid because they don’t understand *our struggle*.

My question remains, how are our concerns being validated by their concerns being dismissed?

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[beachdrivegirl]

The funniest thing is that none of this was directed at the LGBT community it was directed at a few strait posters that decided to attack House (AND REPEATEDLY DO SO–PRIOR TO THIS ISSUE) and once House had spoken out for strait those same posters all of a sudden decided to jump in and *defend* the LGBT community. Have you ever asked the question why were they not supporting you before? I dont have to have someone talk crap about my friend to defend them, but they did and you welcome there support? I will be the bigger person here so to those LGBT members that offended I apologize. And to those that I am friends with I will continue to be your friend. And to those are so threatened by me and me being strait dont worry you dont have to be because i will stay away from your events and I wont try to be your friend.

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[beachdrivegirl]

I have friends of the LGBT community and welcome them with open arms but for last point before I am off tonight. Some of you members from that community may be feeling this exclusiveness because you guys CHOOSE to EXCLUDE yourselves. a few of you on this blog of shown a type of attitude that strait or what ever I chose not to associate with and, bunnypug, it is not because of priviledge it is because I am bigger person and I do not have to surrond myself with poor me people. Poor me people bring a poor me life style and a life style of victimization and yes I am above that. I want to enjoy my life.

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[meg]

You “welcome them with open arms”??! Did they give you a nice pat on the back for your good deed? (snarkiness intended)

People seeking community around shared experience is not a “poor me lifestyle”. I can’t speak for others, but for myself, I have an awesome life and am extremely lucky and privileged. There is no “poor me” happening here.

If that is how you view it, then you really don’t get your privilege. Bunnypug was right on.

In these times and this world, we all need a place that feels like home. That can be comprised of many things–but generally your actual homeplace, your loved ones, your birth or chosen family, your immediate community and the community at large. What this is really about is people wanting to find a piece of their community—a group with unique commonalities. Most of us belong to many types of organized or social groups that meet multiple interests. Community building is, like it or not, of increased importance if you are a member of an already marginalized group. Me, I couldn’t care less if my friends are straight or queer. Or how they identify along the spectrum of gender/sexuality. But I do want to have a place in my life where I this area of my life is represented. For example, for me, it is important for me to attend events with other new moms….and I go and I enjoy it and them. And it has also been important for me to find community with other new queer parents as the experience of being a queer parent is, in many ways, vastly different. And as the only queer mom in every other ‘mom event’ I’ve gone to, there is complete blindness to the assumptions being made about a person with a baby. Assumptions that don’t relate to my life. Sometimes you just need to be “with your people”.

What really needs to happen in this world we live in is increased coalitions amongst groups. I will be a big ally for people, but out of respect, unless I am a member of that group I would opt out for the initial meet and greet. If the negative nellies out there would have been truly following they would have seen no one was saying “no straight folks”. It was just a meet up for LGBT folk. And somehow that got peoples panties all in a bind. This meet and greet was not a political act–it was about seeking out a “subsection” of the west seattle community at large. And after that, when we decide what this group even is or what the interest is, then friends and allies come on in. And keep your privilege in check and know the group isn’t about you.

Some examples: I am friends with and supportive of many people with cancer and cancer survivors. If I saw a group mentioned for an initial meeting of patients or survivors….I’m not going to go. It isn’t about me. Or, someone elses example of an elderly group. Not going to go. POC meet up….again, not going to go. In a marginalized group, I will be a big ally, but I am going to let the group take the lead on when they want me and my level of inclusion. And that sometimes sucks. And if you are coming from a place of privilege you can’t see why that is important and respectful.

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[Anonymous]

meg – I hope all those groups that you have attended and plan on attending give you a nice pat on the back for ALL your good deeds! (snarkiness intended)

That comment was rude to BDG. She wasn’t looking for a reward, simply stating a fact.

How dare you discredit her meaningful friendships like that.

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[Jiggers]

you guys should see yourselves here, what a bunch of morons you all sound like.

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[Anonymous]

Jiggers – I bet we do! I know you’re putting me down, but I can’t help but agree with you!

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[Author]

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