Rubio the nominee

[wakeflood]

OK, so it’s Rubio, now that the Trumpster has finally imploded.

Why? Because he’s the more acceptable version of Cruz, who’s burned too many bridges.

He’s young. He’s slick. He lies as often as he breathes. He’s Latino (In Name Only, which is even better!). And he’s FOR SALE to the highest bidder. The only loyalty this guy has is to his bank account.

Watch this play out quickly. A couple more primaries and Cruz will be history, Trump will take his ball and go home, and the $ will fall into Rubio’s lap. There’s a question as to which way they go with the VP slot – do they go full Tea Party to appease the base further or do they go “older, rich, white dude” to grab Wall St.? Hmmm…

Either way, he’s the toughest draw for HRC/Sanders. Anybody else and it’s a blowout.

His biggest liability? He’s got enough skeletons in his closet to star in a Tim Burton film.

Your thoughts?

• This topic was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by WSB.
• This topic was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by wakeflood.

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[wakeflood]

Want to checkmate the D’s if you’re a Repblican? Go with a Rubio and Nikki Haley ticket.

They’d get some flack from the old guard but they’d counter any D youth vote – if there IS any if they choose HRC.

That’s my nightmare scenario: Rubio/Haley.

Kiss the SCOTUS goodbye for 25 more years, my progressive friends. We’re counting on the grumpy, old, white dudes in the GOP to make another poor running mate decision.

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[JanS]

wake…if he spends as much time at being president if(really big IF) elected as he did as a senator…well, we’re gonna be on our own. I don’t find him highly intelligent, and his work ethic is borderline nonexistant.

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[wakeflood]

All of which is true but irrelevant if he gets elected and gets to nominate 2 or 3 new Supreme Court Justices, trash the ACA, deregulate Wall St. and frack the hell out of whatever’s left. He could work 3hrs./wk and pull that off.

I’m scared, Jan. I really am. He’s another Bush Jr. waiting to happen. Only he’s slicker and lies better.

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[JayDee]

I wouldn’t count out collateral damage inflicted on Rubio (who for some reason has chosen the lower case for his signs?)by his fellow Republicans. And can he run to the center? I don’t think so. And I think he dyes his hair and has manicures. (Joke, except I think he dyes his hair). Dog whistle politics don’t play well after the primaries.

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[JanS]

wake…scared is a good word. I don’t want any of the dwindling number of Repubs to be prez. None of them have your and my best interest in mind. The SCOTUS is #1, and what they will do to women’s rights, gay/LGBT rights. I have a friend who is a Bernie supporter who says that he will simply not vote if Hillary is the nominee. I can’t tell you how angry that makes me. The very right wing GOPer folks will turn out in droves this election, I’m afraid. If the Dems are as divisive the rest of the way as they;ve been the past week during the Iowa debacle, we don’t stand a chance…practicing bending over and kissing your ass goodbye might be a good suggestion.

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[Jeannie]

What happened to moderate, relatively centrist Republicans? I’m a lifelong Democrat, but it distresses me to see the Republican party being taken over by lunatics. Makes me almost nostalgic for Rockefeller or agh – even Goldwater. Many people loathe Trump, but, let’s face it, Rubio, Cruz, etc. are just as bad, though Rubio has prettier hair. I hope the Dems who hate Hillary come to their senses – it’s understandable that they prefer Bernie (I do, too!), but Hillary is smart, strong, and worlds better than any of the Repub candidates.

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[Jeannie]

P.S. I think Bernie supporters who won’t vote if Hillary gets the nomination are being … well…petulant and immature. Sort of like a certain spiteful, obnoxious dude whose last name rhymes with “Dump.” Not voting is a dangerous choice.

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[redblack]

jeannie, it’s not that we loathe hillary so much as we loathe the same old b.s. pay-to-play corporate media electioneering. good lord, hillary was the foregone nominee as soon as obama was reelected

i, for one, am sick of it. i’ve never liked her, and i’m tired of the “well, it could be a republican” argument.

we can do better.

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[Smitty]

I think you are 100% right wake. Trump will crumble (wish this would have happened 4 months ago!) and Cruz is going to fall.

I wish I could say I really like Rubio, but my instincts tell me he is not trustworthy. I think people will gravitate toward him because they think he can beat Hillary (most can beat Bernie)………and she will beat him like a red-headed stepchild (no offense to red-headed step children) in debates.

Ugh(for me)!!!!!!

Edit. I like your Haley idea………a smart and nuanced Palin with an actual track record of success.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Smitty.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Smitty.

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[JoB]

all i can say is the uglies are coming out of the closet. It’s amazing how bold the right wing has become on social media…

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[JoB]

oh.. and i have to say.. i am not impressed with the uglier side of either the HIllary or Bernie fans.
anyone who doesn’t get that this is a long game with a whole lot to lose is letting their ideology get in the way of their common sense…
and that’s not good for any of us

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[JTB]

Some impressions, not based on any data I’ve seen.
I wouldn’t be quick to equate the ire directed at Hillary by Republicans with the indifference of young voters who see the status quo for what it is.

To many of these young people and others wanting systemic change, the difference between Hillary and Rubio, while real, isn’t ultimately apt to make a substantive difference in how the system flails and leaves increasing numbers of working people struggling to maintain a stable life.

Another way of saying that is they both will advance the same neoliberal reforms that characterize global capitalism—-deregulation, privatization of public services, fiscal austerity, increasing public debt (due to tax policy).

Clinton argues against the idealism of Sanders’ call for a political revolution and offers a “realistic” alternative which actually consists of little more than tying to protect the gains that were won previously. I suspect she’ll be just as much in the thrall of Wall Street, the market, as were Bill and is Obama. She’s not going to reign it in and she’s not going to dramatically alter tax policy, two fundamental tasks that are essential to reverse the income inequality and promote real economic growth.

I fear there is not an adequate political, moral or social foundation for the American people to rise to the occasion and seize the political revolution Sanders calls for. It’s more likely people will be too afraid of the uncertainty and instead will hope they can hold on to what they have or at least not lose too much. That’s the frightened, passive mindset that allows a Trump or a Hitler to come to power.

The Democrats and even liberal pundits are increasingly closing ranks with Hillary rather than falling into “status quo” and “political revolution” camps. If there was some of the latter in the coming Senate and House campaigns, there might a slim chance of having a radical Coffee Party caucus comparable to the Tea Party. But I don’t see that happening.

So at best, we are likely left with the old, defeatist notion of “when things get bad enough, then the people will act.” Which gets to my belief that it will take a large scale, sustained version of OWS to force a political revolution in this country. I don’t see the electoral process as being up to the challenge.

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[wakeflood]

I agree, JTB. You only have to look as far as the selection of Debbie Wasserman Schultz to know that the establishment D’s are looking merely to placate the grumbling masses.

I’m holding out hope that while we are still fomenting the revolution, we can get a D to flip the SCOTUS to the inverse 5-4 position. It’s the long game but if we can start overturning some of these insane positions, we’ll have more traction and legitimacy going forward.

That’s the only reason I’m going to vote for HRC, if she ends up the nominee.

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[JTB]

I was going to say I’d vote for her under the lesser of two evils angle, but I’m beginning to wonder if it might be better to just let the GOP have at it and hope that people eventually get fed up. That might be a better long game.

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[wakeflood]

Obviously, frustration is palpable. But man, I’d hate to see 4-8 more yrs. of this. SCOTUS is so key. Overturn gerrymandering, which breaks down the wall that keeps the House so fricking red in spite of being outvoted by millions. Keeping ACA intact. Further environmental damage, etc.

I hear you but unless you’re in the streets doing what you can now, throwing in the towel on the ballot seems a bit premature? Everybody has their own breaking point so I can’t judge.

Let’s just see if we can get Bernie to push HRC into taking some tough public stands, if we can’t get him onto the ballot? I understand that stuff gets pushed aside frequently after elections but Barack has shown her that trying to play nice is useless and maybe she’ll play her first term like his second?

We can try to hold her to that anyway.

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[JanS]

@Smitty, @ Wakeflood: from Robert Reich on Rubio:
Ten things you should know about Marco Rubio:
1. He says everyone should own a gun to protect themselves from criminals and terrorists, and would shut down “any place where radicals are being inspired.”
2. He denies human beings are responsible for climate change.
3. His tax plan gives the top 1 percent over $200,000 in tax cuts per year, and would completely eliminate taxes on capital gains. That’s more than Jeb Bush’s proposed tax cuts for the rich, and about on par with Donald Trump’s.
4. He wants to freeze federal spending at 2008 levels for everything except defense.
5. He wants a permanent U.S. presence in Iraq, and would end the nuclear deal with Iran.
6. He wants to repeal Obamacare.
7. We have no way to know where he is on immigration because he’s flip-flopped — first working on legislation to regularize citizenship for undocumented immigrants, and now firmly anti-legalization.
8. He’s fibbed about his personal history – saying his parents were Cuban exiles although they left Cuba before the revolution.
9. He’s been careless with official money. When serving in the Florida House he charged personal expenses (including a $130 haircut) to a Republican Party credit card intended for official use.
10. And although elected to the Senate as a Tea Party favorite, he’s now the establishment’s favorite Republican. Among his top donors are Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Wells Fargo, and hedge-fund billionaire Paul Singer – along with Koch Industries.
What do you think?

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[JoB]

JTB.. young people are disillusioned? they want systemic change?
why does this sound familiar? hmmmm…

maybe because we have been there and done that. I know it is popular these days to equate the youth movement of the 60s with drugs, sex and rock and roll.. but that was the least of it.

i was in the midst of all that political angst and at one time was the stockpile point in my circle for food.. we actually expected a revolution complete with guns and the national guard to break out at any time and we were prepared.

this time Bernie talks about a peaceful political revolution… but you have to ask exactly how that is going to play out… and how any long game could be strengthened by weakening citizen protections in our rule of law.. or will law be somehow magically thrown out with the bathwater too?

The gains in social democracy of the 70s were a direct result of the political pressure exerted in the 60s. There is no reason to assume that this movement won’t be equally effective in generating change.

But we democrats/progressives/lefties aren’t going to get a FDR style shake up because our political pendulum has not swung far enough to provide our next President with a Congress that will allow for sweeping reforms…

that is unless we elect a Republican who takes their Republican Congress and runs with it to decimate our clean air and clean water standards, our publicly held lands, our educational system, women’s rights, consumer protections, gay rights, etc… and codify it all in law.. endorsed by the Supreme Court.

That’s a long game that would take decades to dig out of… and we would have to literally dig because the notion of a people rising up against the biggest military power in the world.. while possible .. is exceedingly expensive in terms of human life.

You fear what would happen if Hillary became President… yet you say you would not be ruled by fear.

In my not so humble opinion. the best outcome of this democratic primary would be that Hillary was our nominee and Bernie’s movement not only backed her but pressed her to use her considerable political skill in their favor… with Bernie and Elizabeth in the Senate to back her and the people behind her it is possible that we could achieve a lot.

None of this would happen immediately.. what started in the 60s as a political movement didn’t really bear fruit until the 70s… but the fact that it did bear fruit is proof that it could.

If you were going to pick a President to sign social justice reforms.. trust me LBJ would never have been your first choice.. yet look what happened.

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[JoB]

i hope what i posted makes sense. i can’t see it let alone edit it and it’s unlikely i will be able to do so later…
oh well ..

and this posted but not the one i wrote earlier.. ????

• This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by JoB.

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[wakeflood]

Jan – I hoped I wasn’t giving the impression that I think Rubio is anything but a disaster for the country, I was merely pointing out his likely nomination, given the GOP state of affairs.

And I just want everyone who cares to keep our eye on the SCOTUS ball. It’s the most powerful branch of gov’t and it has literally changed the face of our democracy since the Rehnquist and now into the Roberts primacy. With literally ONE STINKING, TIE-BREAKING vote after vote they have legalized criminal behavior and laid the foundation for the oligarchy’s ascendance. 5 to 4, 5 to 4, 5 to 4…like knocking down targets at a shooting gallery.

Campaign Finance, voting law, racial equality, torture, corporate personhood, gerrymandering, gutting class-action, preventing personal bankruptcy while protecting corporate ones, the legalized usury, gutting environmental laws, etc., etc.

And 2 or 3 of these justices will be changed over the next 4+ yrs.

Our future as a functioning society of the people, by the people, and for the people, hangs in the balance. Let’s take our country back. It starts with not letting an R anywhere near the White House a year from now.

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[JTB]

JoB, it’s there and it makes sense—-well, sorta. (Hopefully you can hear me laughing at the entirely playful joke).

Again, I believe Hillary, as well-intended as she is, will continue the task fallen to politicians in OECD countries of implementing neoliberal reforms. She may be against privatizing the VA, but her parsing about Social Security benefits should make any “middle income” recipients get ready for benefit cuts even while the very poor are protected.

As has been pointed out elsewhere, her comment last night about telling Wall Street executives they needed to stop their “shenanigans” is a few steps removed from the charge of “fraud” which was actually the case. That comment was made as part of her response challenging the notion that she was influenced by speaking fees from the likes of Goldman Sachs. Otherwise her Wall Street reform plan is judged to be incremental and certain to be lobbied down in the process of any laws or regulation actually coming out of it.

My view is that unless and until we have a political revolution, the many things you and I care about will continue to be diminished; it’s just a matter of how much and how fast. For every step forward, there is an exemption, a restriction, or defunding put in place by the Congress or some statehouse. Presidential vetoes are rear guard actions inviting later attacks.

I heard what I hope was a telling comment from Bernie last night and not simply some metaphorical illustration which I think indicates he’s well aware that the normal political process isn’t going to produce the required results. It was when he said, “No, you just can’t negotiate with Mitch McConnell. Mitch is gonna have to look out the window and see a whole lot of people saying, “Mitch, stop representing the billionaire class. Start listening to working families.”

“look out the window and see a whole lot of people. . . ”

There’s none of that in Hillary. She would likely be a more savvy Obama, only more hawkish.

My comment to Wake about letting the GOP have its way was mostly tongue in cheek, but within it is a belief that both Hillary and Rubio will continue the course of enabling the corporate elite to run the country at the expense of ordinary people. The debate over reform versus revolution raged throughout the 19th and 20th Century and played out between the social democrats and socialists. Now here we are where there is no serious socialist movement anywhere and social democrats who are looking for some way to save capitalism from itself.

I suppose in the short term, it is certainly preferable to try and hang on to the modest benefits that have been achieved and watch them slowly deteriorate rather than have them lost abruptly. But in the long term, a fundamental change to the system is the only way to really protect them.

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[JanS]

wake..no, I understood you. I was posting that in case others didn’t.

You are concerned with SCOTUS, as am I and many others. And then there’s women’s rights, LGBTQ rights, social programs that help those with less, and my favorite, as it affects me directly, SS, Medicare/Medicaid. JTB, I don’t want to see us allow a repub so we can hit bottom, as a friend said the other day. That’s 4-8 years of so much change that I’m afraid that this country couldn’t survive. I also feel that it’s time we started looking at those running in local, state elections, etc. It’s time to change the face of Congress, especially the make up of the House. Oh, and Mitch McConnell..maybe his face will slide off completely and he’ll have to finally move into the old folks home.

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[HMC Rich]

Oh my. Where are the Middle of the Road Democratic candidates? At least Bernie speaks the truth. I respect him. I can believe him. I won’t vote for him but I trust him.

Hillary pissed off the FBI the other night in the debate. We will see if they find anything. If they do her campaign will be dead. That’s why the youngsters are looking at Bernie. They know she is not trustworthy. Looks like you might need to feel the Bern because Hillary may implode. He was very careful not to attack some of her biggest supporters in that debate. Smart move Bernie.

I wish I could see Fiorina debate Hillary head to head. Massacre. In fact I do believe Hillary will get roasted by any Republican because she has so much baggage. You had better hope Bernie wins.

Wake, I take a bit of exception to your ethnic classification of Rubio. His parents moved here from Cuba. So, saying that his family assimilated into the melting pot is a bad thing? Is he too White? Is it a political crime not to be socialist and white? (Some of you would say yes!!) You didn’t say that about President Obama did you? Was he too white or black? If you are a conservative your race is part of your person but your actions and character define the person. Martin Luther King said it based on your “content of character”! Be proud of your heritage, be proud about yourself. The American flag is not one color and neither is this country.

Interesting that both Rubio and Clinton both made statements about when their relatives came to the US. He made some wrong comments about the time his parents came the to the US. Just like Hillary did, saying her Grandparents were immigrants. (Maybe they should run together, eh)? So if you’re going to hit Rubio on Ancestry related misstatements you must also hit Clinton. (Fair and Balanced). Regardless both embellished the facts and we do not want liars in the Oval Office. (Something we have seen before from the spouse of Hillary).

But, since diversity is a hot topic which cannot be ignored, I must say I see a lot more diversity from the Republican Candidates in these debates than the Democratic debates. The Republican party is changing very slowly demographically but it is changing.

Will the Republican Establishment and the Democratic Establishment not be represented if two outsiders are running for President after the Primaries? Lets see how this shakes out.

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[JoB]

JTb
having participated in the first “revolution” I am not so impressed with the notion than another will create anything but misery..

moreover… i am not willing to hand my equal rights over to the next revolutionary who says they have my back.. it’s been 40+ years and laws passing in states right now look more like 1950 than 2015.

the revolution is am interested in is the one where women and children and people with disabilities and seniors and minorities are prioritized.

that’s not given lip service.. but prioritized.

Now THAT would be truly revolutionary.

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[JTB]

JoB, I’m not really following your train of thought as far as some expectation of handing your rights over to anyone. My sense from reading and listening to Sanders is that he has a better appreciation of what it will take and how to fund the very programs you prioritize.

I appreciate the importance of the many social programs you and others have cited as being vulnerable to a continuing attack from conservatives. But without addressing the systemic, economic problems that are at the core of our slide into the American Nightmare, those programs will go away through insolvency if not political attack.

For some time, since the 70’s, economic growth has been insufficient to sustain the social contract arrived at in OECD countries between the populace and ownership. The fight over the increasingly slim pickings has been won by ownership through tax breaks and increasingly transferring the cost of benefits onto employees. Government debt has increased as a direct result of that dynamic and has led to a world where government’s main preoccupation is with reassuring creditors of the country’s commitment to prioritize that obligation over EVERYTHING else the government is responsible for. Programs for poor women and children or people with disabilities don’t enter into that calculation.

Also, in terms of recent history I don’t believe there has been anything amounting to a political revolution apart from the civil rights movement in which mass action directly drove legislative change. However, that movement soon dissipated and was even co-opted to some extent and steadily lost momentum, leaving us in the current sad state of affairs we have today. All the other political stuff in the 60’s never amounted to a political revolution.

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