Home › Forums › West Seattle Rants & Raves › RANT: Police Ticket Camera at OLG on 35th and Myrtle
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October 31, 2012 at 6:48 am #775682
singularnameParticipantThis entire thread of the majority folks all cool with blowing through a school zone and/or without owning up to getting caught is sorta dumb-founding.
kgdlg, Does this ring a bell?
“I drive 35th every day. I was tailgated the other day for going 20 in a school zone and then 35 down the hill to Morgan and 35th. The man sped past me and then weaved in and out to the junction. Maybe it was you Danny? ***I go the speed limit on 35th, always.*** I wish others would too!”
And unless you’re in a trial for retina identification with the DMV and DOL, or you share an address with your friend the car owner and haven’t actually checked that it’s your name on the citation, your story is completely implausible on that point.
October 31, 2012 at 1:42 pm #775683
JoBParticipantEdSane
“It’s generally best to contest all tickets.”
I recently attempted to fight an undeserved speeding ticket in what turns out to be a real speed trap right here in West Seattle.
Imagine my surprise when i found myself in traffic court confronted with a prosecutor.
Probably not such a good idea to have let the mediator bully me into a court date the day after i returned from a 3 week European working vacation?
Fighting a traffic ticket is not as easy as it once was.
the funny thing is that if i had been aware of the circumstances i was facing and hadn’t been jet lagged i could have provided the kind of evidence that should have had the ticket dismissed. Proof of the disability that prevents me from bouncing through the potholes on that road was in my purse but it didn’t occur to me to prove a medical condition that was evident to the judge.
As far as i am concerned, that process is a total waste of your time unless the ticket will impact your driving record enough to warrant hiring an attorney.
As it turns out, my age, not my driving record would have made hiring an attorney a financially feasible choice had my driving record not already qualified us for something called “incident exemption” for our rates.
For those who want to know.. the speed trap is in the small section of the access road along 509 that is technically first avenue. There is no posted speed on that section of Marginal/2nd/1st so even though the posted speed is 35 on every road leading into that section.. the speed on that short section is 30mph…
and if the officer says he pointed his radar gun at you and you were speeding.. all the officer has to prove is that the radar was calibrated before and after you were cited.. not that he actually measured your car with the device…
or that he noted the correct color or make of your car.. or…
that was not a positive experience on any level.
October 31, 2012 at 1:53 pm #775684
anonymeParticipantGenesee hit the nail on the head – twice. And CJ drove it in.
If you’re so distracted while driving that you can’t see a big, flashing light, or going so fast that you can’t slow from 35 to 20 – you deserve a ticket. Period.
I will say that the school zone law could use refinement. Signs saying “while children are present” are meaningless. The speed restriction should be in effect during regular, posted school hours, and/or only when the lights are flashing.
That said, I wish there were more speed cameras on 35th. Everyone these days seems to think that they are personally exempt from the law. Get over it.
October 31, 2012 at 2:50 pm #775685
kgdlgParticipantWow, sorry I put myself out here so honestly. I am actually a very speed conscious person. I was very very surprised when my friend got this in the mail as I always feel like I slow appropriately on the speed zone. I am not lying about my situation, I was honest. Thanks for the feedback everyone.
I am sorry we have reached a day when we cannot constructively talk about going 26 in a 20 zone (no I am not the worst person ever for this) and the fact that a picture of me was taken versus an actual moving violation. I guess no one is bothered by the fact that everyone here was cited for 26 miles per hour and 30 dollars over per hour. I honestly have no idea if we were all doing this because I have stated before, I am very speed conscious. And again, I am being honest.
October 31, 2012 at 3:53 pm #775686
KellyParticipantWow is right. You are entitled to your opinions. I personally don’t think that going 25 or 26 is “blowing through a school zone.” But I guess things look different from the top of high horse.
October 31, 2012 at 4:30 pm #775687
skeeterParticipantKgdlg – I think some of the confusion on this thread is some readers do not understand the details. In your first post you said “I got a ticket for going 25 in a 20 school zone.” That’s not what happened. You did not get a ticket. The owner of the vehicle got a ticket. The owner of the vehicle can either (1) pay the ticket or (2) sign an affidavit that he/she was not operating the vehicle at the time of the citation and the ticket is dismissed. That’s the law. If the legislature had intended otherwise, they would have made the law differently.
As a driver it is your job to operate the vehicle safely. But it is not your obligation, or the owner’s obligation, to pay a fee you are not legally required to pay. You just got lucky that you happened to be in a borrowed vehicle.
October 31, 2012 at 4:46 pm #775688
EdSaneParticipant@Skeeter. In the affidavit they actually ask for the information in regards to had control of the vehicle. They will then forward the infraction to that individual.
October 31, 2012 at 5:13 pm #775689
dhgParticipantI knew there would be a few judgmental people posting from their high horse when I stuck my oar out. They can’t help it, they are the moral few. I typically don’t meet them on the road because I’m usually the one that’s the rock in stream that slows down cars wanting to go 50 on beach drive. The moral few are tremendously capable people who can keep an eye out on the driver who is pulling into the road into the left turn lane having timed things perfectly so that he’ll be on your bumper (and not in your car) so long as you maintain speed and watching the car on the right that doesn’t brake for the stop sign until nearly in your lane and STILL see the flashing yellow light in the trees.
There are two points to be made here, even for those who cannot get off their high horses long enough to actually drive a car:
1. The flashing lights are easily missed and are insufficient
2. The $189 citation is outrageous. It is not just punitive, it is revenue enhancement for a city that can’t figure out how to honestly balance its books.
October 31, 2012 at 5:55 pm #775690
jaif31MemberQuestion… what is the acceptable speed ABOVE the posted limit for the speed camera? Can you go over 1, 2, 3 MPH without receiving a ticket?
It seems much less safe to me to have to slow down abruptly and then be looking at your odometer to make sure you’re all the way under 20 MPH then it is to slow down to a reasonable speed.
Just curious what, if any, leeway the camera allows.
October 31, 2012 at 6:04 pm #775691
skeeterParticipantEdSane (#32) – thanks for that information. I didn’t realize that was the case.
October 31, 2012 at 7:28 pm #775692
pigeonmomParticipantHigh horse?? Isn’t a law a law?
November 1, 2012 at 12:17 am #775693
DBPMemberHere’s the view looking north on 35 Ave SW. I snapped this shot from about half-way between SW Myrtle and Our Lady of Guadalupe. To get as close as I could to the driver’s perspective, I stepped out into center of the right lane. When traffic was clear, of course.
Please note: I used the telephoto feature on my camera to enlarge the subject, so in real life the sign would NOT appear to be this big from where I was standing.
This was how things looked at about 1 PM today, Wednesday. As you know, it’s been overcast, but the visibility is still pretty good. If the lights had been flashing, the sign would’ve been even more noticeable.
My conclusion:
The signage is visible from both directions on 35th. However, I can STILL see how this could sneak up on someone. There’s just a few seconds (as the car flies) between when the “school zone” sign first becomes visible to drivers and when those drivers need to be going 15 mph slower.
Add to this the fact that there is another (older) sign just 15 feet or so behind the school zone sign, and the fact that this other sign also has flashing lights, and you can see how the new school zone sign might not register with some drivers who are not expecting it to be there.
Oveall I feel that SDOT has done a good job making the school zone signs visible, so I can’t really fault them. However, given the special traffic circumstances on 35th, it might have helped if they’d put up “school zone ahead” signs or something.
On the other hand, perhaps that’s coddling.
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One more thing: As you know, 35th is a very busy street and school kids almost never venture across it. In fact, the nearest controlled intersection where they do cross is Myrtle SW, which is actually outside the 20-mph zone.
However, the purpose of the slow zone is not to make it safer for kids to cross the street there. The purpose is to make it safer for kids to get into cars as they pull over in front of the school.
November 1, 2012 at 12:34 am #775694
JoBParticipantDBP
i would note that these pictures were taken after the leaves had fallen from the trees making the signage very easy to see…
November 1, 2012 at 1:05 am #775695
waterworldParticipantEdSane and Skeeter: Seattle, Bellevue, Burien (and likely other cities) all have form affidavits, usually titled something like “declaration of non-responsibility.” However, neither state law nor the municipal code require the registered owner to use those forms or to provide information about who was in control of the car. The affidavit can be in any form, so long as it includes the language from the statute. An owner could probably also just ignore those spaces where the city asks that the owner identify the “driver.”
This doesn’t have anything to do with whether people are “all cool with blowing through a school zone.” It is not immoral to not pay a fine for a traffic infraction when the law does not require it. The law requires the registered owner to pay a fine, or else to state under oath that he or she did not have custody and control of the car.
November 1, 2012 at 1:08 am #775696
Genesee HillParticipantYes, dhg. I am a judgemental person who got a speeding ticket in a school zone approximately eight years ago.
I was upset.
But rather than blaming everyone and everything for ME speeding through a SCHOOL ZONE, I tried to look at it as a “learning experience”.
I have not had a ticket since.
Signed,
High Horse Rider
November 1, 2012 at 1:25 am #775697
miwsParticipantJoB has a good point about the better visibility what with the leaves having fallen.
But, as DBP alluded to, it looks very “busy” with all of the signage, etc there, whether the lights were flashing or not.
Mike
November 1, 2012 at 3:18 am #775698
dhgParticipantThere is a difference between getting caught because of negligence and getting caught because of poor signage. When I get a citation, I do not immediately blame everyone (even though it is clearly your fault, Genesee Hill). But when I get cited despite being very careful, I have to review my actions and wonder what happened several days ago. Was I taking chances? being reckless? was I negligent? I’m usually the one who is in the headlight glare of the impatient. I missed the warning light. If the light was flashing, my best guess for that neighborhood is that I was distracted by a driver on the cross street who timed his merge to get in just behind me. Happens all the time. People can’t wait another 3 seconds for when the lane is actually clear. So I watch them in case I have to brake. It is a distraction.
I feel it is an unjust citation because the signage is very poor, little chance of seeing it, and because the fee is so high.
Good on you for being so noble and taking it on the chin without a single whine. I’m sure you deserved it.
November 1, 2012 at 2:02 pm #775699
anonymeParticipantFrankly, the photo by DBP makes it appear that the signage/flashing light would be more hard to miss than hard to see. There’s such an array of signage there that it’s almost distracting. Was this the first time the OP had ever driven down this stretch of road, and therefore had never, ever had an opportunity to become aware of the school zone? Highly unlikely.
This situation brings to mind a common scenario: Child gets caught stealing candy. Parent makes child come clean and apologize to storekeeper. After apology, parent insists child pay off candy debt as part of punishment. Child cries “But I was HONEST!! Why do I have to pay, too?” You’ve “honestly” (note how often this word is repeated) admitted to speeding. Whether or not you’re “usually” very careful to slow down doesn’t cut it. Time to pay the consequences.
Also, has the fine been paid yet? Because an “honest” person would do so quickly, rather than pay back a friend kind enough to loan a car by burdening them with a ticket in collections.
November 1, 2012 at 9:25 pm #775700
WSBKeymasterFYI all interested in this topic – I didn’t know the Gatewood camera hadn’t gone live yet. Today, says SPD, is day 1.
November 2, 2012 at 12:54 am #775701
Genesee HillParticipantThank you for your comments, dhg. It is never fun to get nailed for speeding.
In my case, I realized, after being VERY UPSET having been caught, that I had two choices:
1) Make excuses.
2) Pay the fine and re-double my efforts to ensure that I would not lose FOCUS while driving a motor vehicle.
I chose the latter, angry, and with my tail between my legs. Knock on wood that I keep that focus. You, of course, can do whatever you want.
November 2, 2012 at 4:27 am #775702
rockergirl5678ParticipantThe school is actually located on Myrtle and 34th not 35th – kids load in cars in the parking lots not on 35th. Parents turn left across two lanes of traffic coming and going in and out of the lots so it makes it a little safer for them to get in and out of the area. Other than that I do not really see any reason to have a school zone sign or reduced speed zone there in my opinion. It is there now though so make sure not to speed or risk paying an outrageous $189 fee for doing so.
November 2, 2012 at 4:47 pm #775703
cwitParticipantI’m against these speed cameras myself but I’m wondering what the reaction would be if it was an actual police officer who pulled the OP over and issued a ticket?
It could, of course, be argued that a police officer may not have bothered pursuing someone going 5 miles over but what if it actually happened? Would the reaction be the same? Just curious.
When police cars stake out the school zone by Arbor Heights Elementary, they often do brisk business. People zoom by that section all the time. There are no trees obstructing the lights, etc. – I think people may just tend to not pay attention to them.
November 2, 2012 at 5:17 pm #775704
diane2726ParticipantIt is a school zone.. school zones you drive 20 MPH. You got nailed there..pay the ticket. It stinks that the ticket is so much. But, children do cross 35th to get to OLG. Kids do walk too and from school on 35th. Mine included..For the safty of my children (who are at OLG) and the safty of ALL CHILDREN- pls slow down. The camera was request..they finally got one installed. Not just OLG kids..there is also public school one block in..I would rather slow down then hit some kid or adult who is droping their kids off at school. Just my opinion..
November 2, 2012 at 6:12 pm #775705
DBPMemberCorrections to my earlier post (#37):
► The view of the photo is looking north from Othello toward Myrtle.
► Myrtle (where the kids cross with a light and a crosswalk) is well within the school speed zone.
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People definitely do cross 35th at the crosswalk on 35th at Myrtle.
People may also be crossing 35th at other places, too, but they really shouldn’t be. It isn’t safe.
November 2, 2012 at 6:38 pm #775706
cwitParticipantDBP – I may have misinterpreted your earlier post (post #37), but isn’t the Myrtle crossing within the school/20-mph zone? I think the southward school zone light is a little past Willow St when headed south. So folks headed south would need to slow down before Myrtle.
I’ve seen some accidents there involving people attempting left turns and I’ve always been extra cautious there in general since there’s a little less visibility due to it being the crest of the hill.
I’ve also seen parents park on the west side of 35th & Myrtle and walk their kids across the intersection. So the school zone certainly helps for those cases.
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