Video: Big turnout for Fauntleroy briefing on new overflow proposal

| Fauntleroy | West Seattle news

A crowd estimated at more than 100 people came to The Hall at Fauntleroy on Monday night for King County’s briefing on the latest development in the quest to reduce Combined Sewer Overflows from the Murray Pump Station at Lowman Beach. First – we put the entire meeting on video, with the first hour (the county’s presentation) in the top clip, the second hour (attendee discussion) in this next one:

Toplines: The newest option under consideration was chosen by the Citizens’ Advisory Group convened at the behest of Murray “basin” residents concerned about all three of the original potential options, especially one that would dig up the park to bury a big holding tank to reduce overflows. But the option preferred by the group after a summer of work – which at one point had 17 options under consideration (here’s their final report) – is not technically in the Murray basin area; it would involve most of the storage going under Lincoln Park’s south parking lot, which is in Fauntleroy (where a separate pump station, Barton, does not have an overflow-reduction plan chosen yet).

Many Fauntleroy residents who spoke at the meeting voiced concerns about traffic trouble if this latest proposal was chosen by King County – not just from the loss of the parking lot during years of construction, but also because it could overlap with other projects in the area. There also was widespread concern that the group settled on this option without input from area residents; Fauntleroy had one representative on the advisory group, Vlad Oustimovitch, who had voiced those same concerns while the group was making its decision a month ago. Advisory group member Donna Sandstrom said last night that they had tried to be as fair as possible.

One attendee wondered about the status of possibly using private property near Lowman Beach for the storage, which was envisioned in one of the first three options the county had brought forward last spring; area property owners who were at the meeting indicated they had no intention of voluntarily selling.

What’s next? The county has the final say on choosing one potential option for further study, and is not bound by the advisory group’s preference. It’s still taking public comments, so if you have something to say, they want to hear from you by November 15th – here’s how.

what gives? November 2, 2010 (8:57 am)

I am not usually the type to complain about these major construction jobs like this, but what exactly is it that makes these pump station projects take so long? Is it labor requirements? Like I said, I am not the type to usually complain about the unions like many republicans often do, but these projects take far too long for the scale and the scope. The pump station project on 56th at Alki took more than two years and blocked traffic the entire time. The county has zero sense of urgency in completing these. The contract should be awarded to a bidder with incentives for early completion. Are these projects done with crews entirely from King County?

kgdlg November 2, 2010 (11:56 am)

@what gives

have you been following all the problems that kc has come up against in siting this facility? here in seattle i would argue that it is the public “process” that eats up so much of the time in getting these kinds of projects planned and completed. i am sure that these will be union jobs when bid, but i have no idea if that adds time. from my perspective these kinds of projects are pretty time intensive and complicated since they involve monitoring by the feds because of clean water act requirements. i am sure the design, siting, etc. all has to have upper level approval and i for one want this, so that we don’t build something that in a few years will be out of date and/or missing the mark in terms of approved water quality for the sound. but back to the siting issue, i really hope that we can resolve the location soon, because the overflow is a serious problem that needs to be addressed. and correct me if I am wrong, but given that the recommendation isn’t even in the basin, doesn’t that mean that water would have to be pumped up hill to the Lincoln parking lot to be treated? isn’t one of the reasons lowman was chosen was its ideal geography as the bottom point where all the runoff goes anyway? i sure hope the county prices out these alternatives!

what gives? November 2, 2010 (12:16 pm)

Those are good questions kgdlg. In the case of the 56th Pump Station at Alki, it was two years once the cones went up, not from the time the public process began.

I too want careful management to make sure that such projects are up to spec, but I know from observation that they seemed to keep an 11-3 workday, 4 days per week.

Duckitude November 2, 2010 (1:27 pm)

Just a couple of comments. There are phases to the construction of such an underground tank, and the excavation phase which would create the most construction traffic does not last that long. The construction phase is very complex given the controls and piping and plumbing that have to be done absolutely right. It would be less disruptive by far.
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As for the location issue, honestly, logically, the community advisory group that put together the recommended locations took into consideration all of the factors, including short-term disruptions and shared burden of the solution and undergound in the south parking lot of Lincoln Park was and still is the cheapest and least technically demanding.
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As you may not know, or may know, King County installed an additional pipe between Barton and Murray through Lincoln Park when the old pipe broke a few years back. So, there are two large pipes instead of just one old pipe that was relined. Those pipes can carry the overflow that enters Murray basin at the already present Murray Pump station and gravity feed to the proposed tank underground at Lincoln Park. There will be a smaller tank needed at Lowman no matter what, but instead of further industrializing Lowman (remember, it is already heavily industrialized and there is more going in there no matter where the tank goes), it can be put under the street in Beach Drive.
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Everyone talks about how the bottom of the basin is the best place… well, for Murray, the South Parking lot is as bottom of the basin as Lowman is. So, that is not the issue. The issue is sharing the burden. Since the proposed solution for the Barton Pump station CSO is located uphill at the Fauntleroy School, it cannot, itself, capture all of the bottom of the basin at Barton, and thus, the tank under the South Parking lot in Lincoln would help capture what enters the system between the Fauntleroy School and the bottom of the basin at Barton.
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The bottom of the basin argument is just as relevant to Barton as it is to Murray (Lowman Beach Park). You can’t really, honestly, logically argue against a non-bottom of the basin solution for Murray when Barton is pursuing a non-bottom of the basin solution.

Duckitude November 3, 2010 (9:09 am)

One more very important thing. As much as there are lots of logistical challenges to the South Parking lot solution, they can be addressed in a number of ways, if the community wants to do that. It appears that instead of trying to come together with the neighbors who spent so much time and honest sweat to come up with the right solution for everyone, that the Fauntleroy community does not want to look at how to make it work, but how NOT to make it work.
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As much as I believe that the Murray Basin Community Advisory Group should have been the Murray and Barton Basin Community Advisory Group, and as much as I tried to make that happen when the group was being formed by KCWTD and their consultants, it did not happen. However, the group that was comprised was very attentive and considerate of all neighbors and to try to depict us as having some kind of unawareness or insensitivity to the Barton basin community is just absolute mud-slinging for its effect.
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One thing the last meeting revealed is how much misunderstanding is going on in the Barton Basin.
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The major, most important misunderstanding and spurious claim on their part is that somehow Lincoln Park is not part of the Murray Basin but part of the Barton Basin.
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Check you maps, people. We wondered a lot about that, and, in fact, drainage from Lincoln Park goes to Murray, not to Barton, and the map of the basins clearly shows Lincoln Park to be in the Murray Basin. We have the same rights as the Barton Basin folks to make determinations about what is best for all neighbors, but particularly for our Basin and to try to characterize the Lincoln Park South Parking Lot solution as being in Barton Basin’s territory is clearly wrong.
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Again, check the map that was handed out at the November 1 meeting — Lincoln Park is clearly part of the Murray Basin and to characterize it any other way is wrong.
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Now, I am NOT saying that there aren’t problems with the South Parking Lot Solution, but, honestly, it is the least technically demanding, the safest all around, and the cheapest solution. Ratepayers pay for these CSO projects, they aren’t coming out of state taxes.
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In addition, again, I will reiterate, Parks needs to upgrade and expand parking and other amenities (a second disabled access road, for instance — the one that is there is impossible for people who travel to the park on public transportation, for instance). King County can contribute to such upgrades as part of its “mitigation” responsibilities, and, in the end, the traffic and parking and access to the park will be substantially improved (unless, of course, you don’t really care about access to the park and want to limit it as much as possible).

BB November 3, 2010 (3:03 pm)

Duckitude,

You state “You very attentive and considerate of all neighbors” Are you kidding me!
You did not give the neighbors who live directly across the street from the south parking lot any opportunity to participate or voice our concerns to your so called Advisory Group…we NEVER received any notice whatsoever that the south parking lot was even being considered.

Duckitude November 3, 2010 (6:40 pm)

Again, I will say it again. I wanted adequate representation from the Lincoln Park area residents (Barton Basin and Fauntleroy), but it was not a recommendation that was heeded. The idea of the South Parking Lot was not properly vetted by the KCWTD technical team until the last minute. I always made it clear to everyone I talked to that a Lincoln Park siting might be an option. I never hid that and got a lot of flak for it early on. I was proposing something under the middle parking lot, but that was considered not feasible, so the KCWTD folks looked at the South Parking Lot.
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Lincoln Park was always an option and it was never hidden from anyone. These were open meetings that anybody could attend. Why no one attended from your area or the FCA other than Vlad from the FCA is not clear. But, it wasn’t because anything about Lincoln Park siting was being hidden in any way.
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I suppose my “very attentive and considerate to all neighbors” should be withdrawn, since I did not personally go out and knock on doors to let people know that there was such a consideration on the table. I apologize for not going the second mile on that one, but, honestly, if the decision of the CAG had been to put it in my sidewalk (2 feet from my living room window), I would have accepted it. I feel the group was made up of some very concerned, smart, considerate, and neighborly people and if that is what they thought was the best, then I would have accepted it.
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As I said, I understand the feelings of those who were excluded from this CAG, but, again, the CAG’s decisions were not made on the basis of who can we dump on next, but what would be best in the circumstances for everyone.
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I trust the KCWTD on their engineering and technical skills. I had a huge boiler sitting two feet from my living room for a week, churning out very hot water to line the old pipes that failed back in 2006 or so. My wife and I had to sleep downstairs in the basement to get away from at least enough of the noise to sleep.
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We deal with upgrades, noise, odors, all the time from the Murray Pump Station, but we consider it part of the price of fixing the Sound and the price of living in this paradise.

nulu November 5, 2010 (9:48 pm)

“Since the proposed solution for the Barton Pump station CSO is located uphill at the Fauntleroy School, it cannot, itself, capture all of the bottom of the basin at Barton, and thus, the tank under the South Parking lot in Lincoln would help capture what enters the system between the Fauntleroy School and the bottom of the basin at Barton.” Duckitude

“Again, check the map that was handed out at the November 1 meeting — Lincoln Park is clearly part of the Murray Basin and to characterize it any other way is wrong.”Duckitude

Well Ducky, Right hear you certainly characterize it both ways.

“Why no one attended from your area or the FCA other than Vlad from the FCA is not clear.” Duckitude
Well Ducky, wrong again. I attended one boisterous meeting and experienced you charging to the front with interruptions and denunciations.
I heard the “poopy diaper Lady” claim a 20 minute detour drive from Lowman to Beach Drive via Jacobsen Road!
I heard a screaming bunch of NIMBYs demanding “anywhere but here”.
I here Duckitude claim that,”We deal with upgrades, noise, odors, all the time from the Murray Pump Station.” How about right now?
And, “I had a huge boiler sitting two feet from my living room for a week,” which I find difficult to believe. How about a photo of that Duckitude?

Such false pronouncements seem to justify Duckitude’s absolute certainty, “You can’t really, honestly, logically argue…”
anything that proposes anything in his back yard.

Duckitude November 10, 2010 (10:28 am)

Wow.. nulu. Give it a rest. I was only one of 11 “official” members and many, many, non-official members, so, unless you think I know how to hypnotize people, then, all those folks who live nowhere near Murray Pump Station are guilty of NIMBY… really?
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And “false pronouncements”? Really, why don’t you just call me a liar? There is nothing false about any of the facts that you quote me on. Do a fact check.
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As for the boiler camped out next to my living room, yah, I have pics. Here’s a couple.
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http://www.ronsterling.com/boiler2006.htm
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The boiler exhaust actually burned back a tree and almost melted telephone and other wires above it.
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Honestly, nulu, maybe you should ask questios, check facts, before you essentially call people “liars.”
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As for Vlad’s assignment as a member of the advisory group, part of it was to communicate with the community. So, guess he didn’t do much of that since FCA and those many people at the Nov. 1 meeting never showed up at any of the PUBLIC advisory meetings.
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Lincoln Park was always on the table from the first meeting onward. Where in Lincoln Park was not always clear, since the location had to be run by technical people, engineers, etc., and that takes time. WSB keeps reporting that wrongly and not sure who they think they are quoting, but Lincoln Park was always on the table.
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Not that I expect you to listen to logic…

Sorry, comment time is over.