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January 13, 2008 at 5:42 am #586232
flipjackParticipantJust like the 2000 and 2004 elections were shrouded in controversy; lost ballots, people denied votes in Florida, intentionally rigged voting machines owned by private corporations that gave money to the Republican party etc….
What makes you think it won’t happen again? Nothing has been done and it’s already happening in the primaries (the New Hampshire primary).
If you think everything has been hunky dory in the past few elections you just aren’t paying attention.
What do you think??
http://www.dennis4president.com/go/homepage-items/help-defend-the-integrity-of-our-voting-system/
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/archives/cat_vote_fraud.html
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen
January 13, 2008 at 6:00 am #613839
flipjackParticipant(From the Rolling Stone article in the above link)
“American history is littered with vote fraud — but rather than learning from our shameful past and cleaning up the system, we have allowed the problem to grow even worse. If the last two elections have taught us anything, it is this: The single greatest threat to our democracy is the insecurity of our voting system. If people lose faith that their votes are accurately and faithfully recorded, they will abandon the ballot box. Nothing less is at stake here than the entire idea of a government by the people.
Voting, as Thomas Paine said, ”is the right upon which all other rights depend.” Unless we ensure that right, everything else we hold dear is in jeopardy.”
January 13, 2008 at 6:04 am #613840
flipjackParticipantThe whole “running for election thing” seems to be just a HUGE waste of time and money. Nothing more than a really long spectator sport. Or another MAJOR distraction from what is really going on in this country and the world.
I always vote anyway, but I truly do not trust the system as it stands at all.
January 13, 2008 at 9:11 am #613841
WSBKeymasterFlip – which do you think is less corruptible/corrupted, voting in person or voting by mail? Just curious.
January 13, 2008 at 6:13 pm #613842
flipjackParticipantI don’t think it matters if they are tallying the votes up the same way, with a computer running windows software, from what I’ve read it’s pretty easy to change the votes.
I suppose I would feel more certain that my ballot made it into the computer if I voted in person, but I usually vote by mail.
January 13, 2008 at 11:43 pm #613843
JanSParticipantflipjack..many of us are very cynical aobut that…but…what’s the point? well, if you don’t vote, you can’t bitch…we’ll start there :)
January 14, 2008 at 2:26 am #613844
acemotelParticipanthe said: “I always vote anyway…”, and the point is that the possibility of vote fraud should always be in the forefront. The great thing about this country is that <i>everyone</i> has the right – and freedom – to criticize, voter or not. :-)
January 14, 2008 at 6:13 am #613845
flipjackParticipantJAN, That’s right I DO vote. And yes as acemotel says, it should be in the forefront. OK, I tend to be cynical but what’s wrong with that. A little cynicism is good as long as it’s not just a bunch of negativity.
If we had more critical thinkers in this country, we might not be in the mess we’re in now. But who knows maybe we’re not in a mess and the whole thing will work out fine and Kucinich will end up winning the the presidency.
January 14, 2008 at 7:33 am #613846
KenParticipantTo paraphrase my mom:
Nothing wrong with a bit of skepticism until someone loses an eye.
Election fraud is the correct term rather than voter fraud. Voter fraud is mostly a myth of the republicans who are intent on reducing turnout and disenfranchising voters of historically Democratic voting blocks. Note in this state the only recent cases of voter fraud uncovered in 2004 were all Republicans voting for Rossi.
Election fraud is much more difficult to detect and the safeguards run counter to the business model currently in use. The more speedy and efficient the process, the more vulnerable it is to single point failures and manipulation.
However you are in luck in King county. You can monitor the thing yourself. If you are a party member, you can even get paid to do so. Contact your district chair and tell them you wish to be an official observer for the next election. There are several people who are regulars in this function but often several slots open up.
Also any citizen with a pulse and a drivers license can sign in as an observer at most if not all of the venues where the ballots are received, stored, counted and tabulated.
I have done such duty myself. I also happen to know that while they probably will not comment on this thread, about 2/3rds of those who are long term employees of the King County elections offices, seem to live in West Seattle…. and are hardworking, honest people who would blow the whistle if anything obvious or underhanded was done within their sight or hearing.
The nature of the combination of Windows, Access database, and secrecy by the vendor Diebold of the underlying code and scripts, continue to fuel the suspicions of anyone who understands the nature of computers and the proven vulnerabilities of the various components used in the “black box” part of the tabulating software.
Open source code and transparency is the only viable fix as I see it but that is probably a long ways off here in the heart of Microsoft and the place where millions of people use computers without understanding either how they work or how they can be compromised without any indication to the user.
The shift to vote by mail will actually remove one of the potential failure points in the chain of custody of pre tabulated votes. The memory cards. The majority of the vulnerabilities discovered by computer scientist given access to various voting machines, could most easily be compromised via code introduced into memory cards.
That’s enough for tonight. If anyone wants a long rundown of the king county elections processes circa 2004-2006, let me know and I will pull out my notes and the boxes of records and reports I had to sign off on.
January 14, 2008 at 9:16 am #613847
JanSParticipantflipjack…I wasn’t saying that you didn’t vote…I read what you said, and I concur. It’s the voting that allows us to bitch. :) If I didn’t take the time to go out and vote and at least have my say, then I should keep my mouth shut if I don’t like the results…that’s what I was saying.So…as cynical as we may be, we vote, and that allows us to grouse as much as we want :)
January 14, 2008 at 5:58 pm #613848
flipjackParticipantJan, yeah, I agree, that’s why I vote..haha.
KEN, thanks for the clarification, and the informed information..the observer program is at least a step in the right direction.
January 14, 2008 at 6:41 pm #613849
KenParticipantNote Bev Harris and Jim March of http://www.blackboxvoting.org are sometimes citizen observers of the King county system.
They are more critical of the vote by mail system than I am if I remember correctly.
January 17, 2008 at 5:16 pm #613850
cheyenneMemberI too am more critical of the vote by mail system. The current in-person scantron system is better, at least partly because voting by mail you run the risk of not receiving your ballot on time, losing it, etc. Just to let you know, I am a poll worker. I prefer that voters go to the precinct they are listed in, rather than voting by provisional ballot, since those are not always counted except in recounts.
January 17, 2008 at 6:32 pm #613851
flipjackParticipantYeah and it’s always good to get out amongst the people! Maybe I’ll do that this year.
January 17, 2008 at 7:36 pm #613852
KenParticipantI am hoping that anyone who wants their voice heard will understand the situation in the short term.
The primary is only important if you are a republican.
The Caucus on Saturday Feb. 9th at 1 pm is the only place presidential nominee delegates will be chosen this year.
I checked my ballot on the primary page at king county elections and there are NO ballot measures, annexation votes or fire of school district measures on it.
https://www.metrokc.gov/elections/pollingplace/voterlookup.aspx
I am thinking of choosing the worst possible candidate and voting in the Republican primary since they will be choosing half the Republican delegates via the primary.
Last time the primary was cancelled due to neither party choosing delegates from its results with a savings of several million taxpayer dollars.
If you want to “get out among the people” this year, you should join your neighbors at the caucus on Feb 9th and let your voice be heard.
Also note anyone who wants to make their local party, be it Republican or Democrat, either more progressive or more conservative, has very nearly only one path to do so. Join the local district organization and become a voting member.
If you’re a Democrat or even a green or socialist leaning independent, your only chance to tilt district policy in the direction you want is to join and speak up.
http://www.34dems.org/members-join.htm
If you are a Republican then use google to look for your contact and caucus info. I think the WA Republican party has purged most of the moderates but a few are still hanging on here in Seattle. If you identify yourself as a moderate Republican, please join your party and help save them from the crazies.
Note: the 34th district includes all of West Seattle, Vashon Island and parts of Burien
Caucus info is updated regularly here:
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