What are Democrats? Republicans?

[2 Much Whine]

So this is how I see it. . . .

GUNS

Democrats no

Republicans yes

–

ABORTION

Democrats yes

Republicans no

–

DEATH PENALTY

Democrats no

Republicans yes

–

LEGAL WEED

Democrats yes

Republicans no

–

FRACKING

Democrats no

Republicans yes

–

IMMIGRATION

Democrats yes

Republicans no

–

CLEAR CUTTING FORESTS

Democrats no

Republicans yes

–

GOV’T HEALTHCARE

Democrats yes

Republicans no

–

RELIGION

Democrats no

Republicans yes

–

ALTERNATIVE ENERGY

Democrats yes

Republicans no

–

FOX NEWS

Democrats no

Republicans yes

–

GAY MARRIAGE

Democrats yes

Republicans no

–

HUNTING

Democrats no

Republicans yes

–

GLOBAL WARMING

Democrats yes

Republicans no

–

IDIOTS & COWARDS

Democrats yes

Republicans yes

–

GENIUSES & HEROES

Democrats yes

Republicans yes

So these are just a few and I KNOW there are more. I also know there are millions of exceptions but I think overall these are some talking points. Can you add to them? Care to comment?

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[Smitty]

Looks about right. I would make three changes for clarity:

1) “Man-made” Global Warming

2) “Illegal” Immigration

3) Renewable forestry

As for me personally:

Death Penalty No

Gay Marriage Yes (well, I would prefer the government recognize civil unions for ALL and people can get “married” on their own accord.

This should be a good post, thanks!

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[skeeter]

I disagree on clear-cutting forests. Both Dems and Repubs support logging. I don’t think either party supports logging in a manner that permanently destroys a resource.

Most Dems and Repubs are in favor of the death penalty.

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[2 Much Whine]

On the logging thing – if neither Dems or Repubs support clear cutting then is it the socialists that allow it to happen? There are huge swaths of forests cut down. I tend to think of the classic “tree hugger” as being more inclined toward Dem than Repub.

Also, I should have added:

NPR

Democrats yes

Republicans no

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[skeeter]

I should have been more clear. I think repubs allow clear cutting. I think dems allow clear cutting. That’s why I said “I disagree” with the original position that repubs are yes and dems are no on clear cutting. I think both are for it.

Though I agree that those who are opposed to logging and/or clear cutting are more likely to be Dems. But they would be in the minority of Dems. Way too many jobs in logging for any major party to oppose it.

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[HMC Rich]

Please read this article regarding clearcut forests from the West Virginia University Extension Service. http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/forestry/clrcut.htm

Bet some of you didn’t know that Clearcutting has massive benefits but people don’t take the time to learn about it.

So, in the name of proper forestry practices

Dems Yes

Reps Yes

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[VBD]

Sorry to extend this tangent on the topic, but I have to make a comment on clear cutting: It IS deforestation.

Once a forest is cut, it will be re-cut in about 70 years. Nearly all the lowland forest in Washington State is second growth. Sad.

A true oldgrowth northwest forest contains trees of all ages up to as much as 1,000 years old. There are young cedars next to old Douglas Fir. There are spruce, pine, and yew of all ages, with plenty of fallen logs.

Once logged, the trees are replanted, often with a single species. The environment created by the second growth trees bears little resemblance to the original forest, since the type and age of the trees are uniform. It will be cut again long before it ever truly matures.

I dislike the term “reforestation”. What it really means is turning a former forest into a farm.

Calling a re-planted area a “forest” is like calling a corn field a “prairie”.

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[HMC Rich]

Our State has the 11th most Federally held Acreage in the country. Here are the facts…

Total state acreage: 42,693,760

Total federal land acreage: 12,173,813

Federal land percentage of state: 28.5%

Number of national parks: 13

Number of visitors to national parks (2012): 7,529,549

Economic benefits from national park tourism (2012): $419,200,000

Over 1/4 of all lands in this state belong to the Feds to decide whether or not they want trees cut or be left alone.

I love going to the Hoh Rain Forest, Mt. Rainier National Park etc. It would be a tragedy to cut in those lands that have been set aside, but I am all for logging in other areas.

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[JanS]

Rich…I am vacationing at the moment near the Columbia Gorge. Just drove today from Hood River to the Timberline Lodge, and various places in between, before coming to Portland. So..as long as they don’t do it in the Hoh rainforest, Mt. Rainier area, you’re perfectly fine with denuding the rest of the state?The area between Portland/Vancouver, and Pendleton on the OR side, and all along the WA part of the Gorge are a treasure, as is the North Cascades, the Alpine Wilderness, and on and on. Ask the people in Oso what they think of the results of clearcutting/logging. No matter if it’s the Feds or the State calling the shots, we should al be concerned about all the areas around us.

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[waynster]

well here is a couple of examples…

A Republican bathroom…..

http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/2010/06/26#.U2UIzyimX38

A Democrat amusement ride at Disneyworld ….

http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/2011/08/11#.U2UKJSimX38

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[HMC Rich]

Jan, You misunderstood me. I must not have been clear enough. Over 1/4 of our state is protected. The other 3/4 have to abide by the laws the state and Feds have. Forgive me but I like it both ways. Helping certain areas stay pristine and other areas that allow we humans to use the natural resources nature provides.

When I head to Neah Bay, I remember when it had more old growth forests. Yes, I miss seeing that at times but did harvesting help out local families? I bet it did. Did it help and hurt some wildlife? I bet it did. Does the state make millions of dollars off our natural parks and landmarks? Yes it does.

Did you read my link about clear cut forests?

Everything in moderation.

Regarding Oso. I wouldn’t particularly point to logging until the facts are in. The only fact that I know is that the contractors, realtors, and SOME residents, but not all residents, who built there were warned not to.

This link is extremely important to read… Here is a fantastic link regarding the warnings that were made to the residents of Oso.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/01/opinion/miller-landslide-washington/

This was a deep slide in an area that has history with slides. Here is an article that points out possible causes but will wait for the scientists to give their two cents. http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/6498/20140401/investigation-into-causes-of-oso-landslide-underway.htm

Funny how humans take “acceptable risks”. We live next to Mt. Rainier. It is an acceptable risk for most of us. But I sure don’t want a Lahar barreling down on Orting, or the Kent Valley, or the Nisqually Basin etc…..

I am forever thankful that the ash from Mt. St. Helens was not filled with more carcinogens instead of mostly benign ash/silica. I remember the sky getting black and then the thickest dust storm with no wind encircling everything around us as it rained down from the heavens. That sucked. But it did not kill me. Only my car’s engine.

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[Talaki34]

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[kayo]

Controlling women’s healthcare decisions:

Democrats – No

Republicans – Yes

Birth Control:

Democrats – yes

Republicans -no

Pandering to corporations:

Democrats -yes

Republicans – yes

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[redblack]

sorry, 2MW, but regarding your tally sheet, you’re painting with a pretty broad brush.

i’m not happy with the democratic party. and i have nothing in common with the republican party. they’re both kissing the asses of big banks, big insurance, big pharma, and big telecom, and they’re pretty much pissing on everyone else. neither party’s leadership knows the definition of compromise, and neither has the courage of their professed convictions.

not sure i’m much of a democrat these days, but i do consider myself a liberal.

as a union guy, i’m against open-door immigration.

i also support gun rights, but believe there needs to be serious overhaul of the permitting process and 21st century tracking of fully automatic weapons.

i’m okay with the death penalty; some cancers can’t be cured, so to speak, and they just need to be excised.

just saying that there’s a lot of subtlety.

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[redblack]

i just re-read my post from last night and i can see how my expressed views might be considered conservative. let me assure the uninitiated that this isn’t the case.

por ejemplo:

local/state/federal single-payer/universal health care insurance? yes.

complete and total confidentiality between a woman and her doctor regarding reproduction? what business is it of anyone else’s?

taking advantage of relative economic prosperity to ensure parity for the unemployed or disadvantaged? tax me you betcha.

kshama sawant? i voted for her.

deep bore tunnel? nope.

mike mcginn? i miss him.

ed murray? milquetoast sheep… in sheep’s clothing.

what else you all got? any other pigeon holes you want to herd us into?

or maybe you could stop helping big media sell HFCS, foreign-made cars, and viagra by convincing us that we’re at war with each other…

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[redblack]

hillary clinton? no.

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[au]

democrats and republicans…how i see it…

a looong time ago in my mid 20’s i had a cartoon clip from the new yorker on the fridge. two cows, bovine, grazing in a pasture, bucolic..anyway, one cow turns to the other, they were chatting about politics, elections, party’s and such…and

says,”you know, there’s not a dimes worth of difference between the candidates, they both eat meat.”

since then, that’s pretty much been my perception of our two party political system

for the subtleties i see the repubs as being honest about wanting to screw people over and the dems as trying to be nice about it

i also believe there are honest people out there in both parties trying to do the right thing,

but i could be completely naive about that last part and there are no more honest people left, but i don’t think so

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[wakeflood]

I second your thought R/B on the progressive vs. Dem position. I used to think that we needed to use the “semi-sold-out” position represented by Clintonistas as a way to help get the pendulum moving back from crazy-level-sold-out oligarchy that currently holds sway in the GOP.

I’ve seen the damage that middle ground can yield (you note several Industrial Complexes that have been either tacitly or actively supported by “reasonable” Dems) and I realize that you have to tug the pendulum effing hard to get it to move.

The GOP realized this years ago, hence their many-fronted effort that has seen ideas once so ridiculous as to be publicly unspeakable, now have been mainstreamed, thanks to: Funded think tanks, purchased politicians, appointing foxes to run henhouses, deregulation, debasing civics and science at every turn, funding a radical party to the right of your own positions for leverage, and funding 24/7 media propaganda machines.

All done with intent and malice of forethought.

There’s two ways this can go. Progressives can spend billions and decades moving the needle or we can have some sort of tipping point which flips the whole thing on its ear. Which way will it go? What’s Vegas got the odds at today?

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[wakeflood]

And in case you thought that Hillary wasn’t part of the “good old boys” cabal that is Wall Street, here’s a quote from Politico:

“Dozens of major GOP donors, Wall Street Republicans, and corporate lobbyists have told Politico that if Jeb Bush decides against running and Chris Christie doesn’t recover politically, they’ll support Hillary Clinton. “The darkest secret in the big money world of the Republican coastal elite is that the most palatable alternative to a nominee such as Senator Ted Cruz of Texas or Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky would be Clinton.”

To which I would add the following question: What about that connection between Wall Street and Clinton comforts anyone who thinks they’re a Progressive, wants economic justice, and hates Too Big To Fail?

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[JoB]

when your only choice is between the lesser of two evils

perhaps you are wise to choose the lesser of the two evils

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[wakeflood]

And many of us, me included, have tacitly supported the self-fulfilling notion that we can only choose between those lesser evils.

Wisdom being relative, maybe its time to break down the system that gives us these Hobson’s choices year after year, cycle after cycle?

And doesn’t that process start with outing these “choices” as being false to begin with?

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[wakeflood]

Just wait until Elizabeth Warren starts to dip her toes into the water and see how fast the Dem’s apparatchik start torpedoing her as a “radical” or outside the mainstream, etc. And some of the worst part of it will be that they’ll do it through surrogates and people they think have credibility with the progressive wing but have nothing to lose by taking shots at her.

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[wakeflood]

And I have no problem with folks who support Hillary because they like what she represents, which is a significant portion of the self-identified Dems. I just don’t want them to spend energy trying to convince the rank and file that she’s really a progressive or populist by any stretch. She’s a very sharp and politically savvy person, but a progressive, she ain’t.

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[JoB]

wakeflood.. i think that depends upon how you define progressive. Hillary is exceedingly progressive when it comes to women’s rights.

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[wakeflood]

OK, I’ll give you that. She has 1 in the Prog column. How many others can you plausibly add?

I submit to you the answer stops there.

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[Author]

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