Home › Forums › Open Discussion › To microwave or not to microwave, what’s your decision?
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January 4, 2014 at 8:44 pm #802514
angelescrestParticipantOops, Breezy. Sorry if I came off that way. They just scare me; I can’t equate their use with healthy eating.
January 4, 2014 at 10:44 pm #802515
singularnameParticipantMy decision has been no my whole life, because as I told my dad, after he finally looked me in the eye and asked the question after a couple of decades of desperately trying to give me microwaves that kept coming into his life through relative deaths, building buyouts, etc., “Because it makes you craaaaa-zy.”
January 5, 2014 at 2:23 pm #802516
metrognomeParticipantVDB — having been raised by a health-conscious scientist, statements such as, ‘There is simply no scientific validity to the claims you made …’ really raise red flags for the simple reason that, believe it or not, scientists do not yet know everything. And, even more stunningly, some scientists disagree with the methodology and findings of other scientists. Hard to believe, but some scientists used to believe that the earth was the center of the universe and that if you walked to the end you would fall off.
http://sacredlilac.hubpages.com/hub/The-Hidden-Messages-in-Water-Book
Kevin — it is highly unlikely that anyone has died from the chemicals contained in a single bag of microwaved popcorn. The problem is the accretion of minute doses of ingested chemicals over years. Since the advent of heavily processed convenience foods in the post-war years, we have been gradually consuming pesticides, fertilizers, preservatives, artificial coloring agents, etc. Doesn’t matter if they are canned, ‘just add water’ mixes, frozen or provided by your local fast food chain who has their food trucked in from the East Coast. Microwaving or oven-heating in plastic or plasticized containers is particularly problematic. Study after study has shown the long-term costs we are likely paying in terms of health issues that didn’t exist (in such huge numbers) 50 or 60 years ago. Since you’ve only been doing it for 25 years, you’ll have to wait awhile longer before your hair starts falling out, etc.
Fascinating history of the development of the microwave oven (is that a Mr. Goodbar melting in your pocket or are you not happy to see me …)
January 5, 2014 at 5:42 pm #802517
VBDParticipantmetrognome, as a scientist myself (a health physicist specifically), and one who has specialized in the biological effects of radio frequency radiation, I can tell you that I understand this subject quite well. My statements represent my opinion, but that opinion is based on years of study. I firmly believe microwaves do not create the sort of molecular changes claimed by Mr Emoto.
As to whether Emoto is a fraud or not, he most certainly is. He has never once demonstrated his hypothesis, nor has any replication of his claims ever been confirmed. He refuses to cooperate with any study meant to evaluate his claims. He also has made quite a lot of money with his books and products. Revealing the fraud would ruin his livelihood.
Many great discoveries start with big ideas. All ideas are “fringe” until proven true. The key step in the process of scientific discovery is validation of the hypothesis. Science requires proof that something is true.
The Wright brothers would never have flown if they never tested their ideas. Many people before them also believed they knew how to fly. Hundreds of tests were conducted, and most failed.
If science was only about believing, human flight would never have happened.
Carl Sagan said, “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”
January 5, 2014 at 5:53 pm #802518
JoBParticipantVBD..
i don’t know anything about Emoto.. and frankly am not curious enough to find out..
but i do know that categorically stating someone is a fraud because what they have discovered may or may not be provable within the contexts of acknowledged science is risky at best.
January 5, 2014 at 6:04 pm #802519
PangolinPieParticipantWhen you start charging people over $2000 for a class on your made-up pseudoscience, then I think you cross over into “fraud” territory:
http://www.masaru-emoto.net/english/hado-instructor-school-05.html
January 5, 2014 at 6:17 pm #802520
metrognomeParticipantVDB — in my opinion, you stated your opinion as unassailable fact. I have no opinion on either Dr. Emoto’s proposition nor on the opinion of those who disagree with his conclusions. I was merely pointing out that the history of science is filled with absolute certainties that were later proven to be incorrect.
Pangolin Pie — it’s up to people to decide how to spend their money when exploring what they believe or don’t believe. Using your definition, I can think of lots of televangelists and colleges that could be accused of fraud, and they charge lots more money.
three and out.
January 5, 2014 at 6:21 pm #802521
KBearParticipantSo we should avoid using the microwave because it might hurt the water molecules’ feelings? More so than several minutes on the stove?
January 5, 2014 at 6:27 pm #802522
JoBParticipantPangolinPie
the allegation of fraud depends upon the phrase “made up”…
how do we know whether what is today considered made up will tomorrow be considered acknowledged scientific fact? we don’t.
there is a woman on Vashon Island teaching nutrition classes that a whole lot of forum readers have taken.
Her classes fly in the face of acknowledged nutritional science .. yet what she teaches seems to work very well for a lot of people.
i don’t know what to think and thus far have not invested in her classes… but i have to admit that I choose not to invest my money because i believe the jury is still out.. not because i think she is a fraud…
and lest you say.. well that is different.. it’s not so different..
she has a scientific background and explains the science behind her nutritional information too..
it’s not the science we were taught… nor that acknowledged in medical journals… yet it may well be the cutting edge of things we do not yet understand.
who knows?
i don’t.
January 5, 2014 at 6:29 pm #802523
VBDParticipantJoB, the effect Emoto claims is occurring is simple to test. A basic cause and effect phenomenon. He does something, and the crystals form a certain way. This is not a philosophical claim, but a physical one. Very simple to validate using basic scientific principles.
All attempts at replicating his claims have failed. He will not perform the procedure in front of an impartial observer. That, and the fact he makes tons of money selling his BS leaves little doubt that he’s a world class fraud.
January 5, 2014 at 6:33 pm #802524
VBDParticipantmetrognome, I agree with you; there are a LOT of fraudulent televangelists (perhaps most) and a few colleges as well.
A fool and his money….
January 5, 2014 at 6:45 pm #802525
miwsParticipantI have a hunch that the woman JoB is referring to is Ms. Abascal, who was featured in KING 5’s Healthlink this morning:
http://www.king5.com/health/jean/The-Anti-Inflammation-Diet-and-why-it-seems-to-work-231242511.html
Mike
January 5, 2014 at 7:23 pm #802526
VBDParticipantIf that is the woman JoB spoke of, I would disagree strongly that she is not scientific in her approach. The inclusion of methods for controlling variables by introducing foods one at a time, and making determinations based on results, is a scientific process.
It’s true that many of the claims in the videos were testimony, but those health outcomes should be testable over time. Sounds like she’s on to something worth studying.
January 5, 2014 at 7:27 pm #802527
PangolinPieParticipant“I can think of lots of televangelists and colleges that could be accused of fraud, and they charge lots more money.” I totally agree, metro!
January 5, 2014 at 8:22 pm #802528
Spring ChickenMemberRe #38: I agreed with you up to now, you’ve lost me. Where’s the science in this videoclip? Testimonials are not science. Customers self-select based on whether they believe the restaurant is helping them. People who feel worse or die don’t come back, are not interviewed. You could hear similar rave reviews talking to pilgrims bathing in the holy waters of Lourdes! Placebo Effect, or wanting to believe, can help people feel better (whereas laboratory tests cannot be fooled).
Has her diet been administered in a clinical setting, with a control group, were blood tests taken which indicate it reduces inflammation? That’s science.
Kathy Abascal is not a medical doctor. She has a bachelor’s degree in neurobiology, her doctorate is in law.
Her food looks tasty! In the video she advises people start by eliminating refined carbs and eating more vegetables, that’s not a new discovery but would help most anyone feel better and lose weight.
Re original topic: Microwave ovens have been in use since 1954 and cause no adverse health effects.
January 5, 2014 at 8:43 pm #802529
2 Much WhineParticipantWhat does a lady on Vashon Island have to do with making water sad in a microwave? I would think that drinking water and turning it into urine would make it more sad than heating it in a microwave. But that’s just me.
January 5, 2014 at 8:51 pm #802530
VBDParticipantSpring Chicken; “The inclusion of methods for controlling variables by introducing foods one at a time, and making determinations based on results, is a scientific process.”
Not a lot of science, but it’s a good technique. I agree, testimonials are not complete science. They need validation. I thought I indicated that caveat.
January 5, 2014 at 8:59 pm #802531
VBDParticipant2 Much Whine, not just sad, EVIL. When water gets microwaved, evil wins… According to Mr Emoto, anyway. His quote:
“In my lectures, I talk about how water and water crystals are 10 percent goodness, 10 percent evil, and the rest — 80 percent — is opportunist. When the 10 percent that is goodness and the 10 percent that is badness in water crystals fight, then the 10 percent that is goodness wins and overpowers evilness. “
January 5, 2014 at 11:05 pm #802532
JoBParticipantVBD..
so you like Ms Abascal…
but Emoto is a fraud…
one must ring true to you and the other not
because the science Ms Abascal uses to justify her approach is not exactly what anyone can call acknowledged nutritional science..
which is not to say that she isn’t on to something with her diet recommendations..
i am keeping an open mind
i think i will keep an open mind on Emoto too :)
January 5, 2014 at 11:27 pm #802533
JeannieParticipantDr. Emoto?! Really? Sounds like the name of a Victorian magician or a present-day hypnotist in a third-rate Vegas lounge. He talks to water? I’ll keep that in mind and be sure to say only positive things next time I fill my glass. “Nice water. Thank you for sustaining me.”
January 6, 2014 at 12:53 am #802534
SueParticipantSorry I created such a controversy over Dr. Emoto. I was not aware of his class, so thank you for sharing about that, PangolinPie. I also don’t pretend to have done research into the validity of his work on a scientific basis, but it’s something that resonated with me and helped influence my decisions, whether others agree with it or not. The original question here was why we did or didn’t use microwaves. I actually have many reasons why, but didn’t feel like writing a manifesto or rehashing what others had said, so I mentioned something different. I totally respect that others don’t buy into it (or the other reasons), and I certainly don’t tell anyone they’re wrong for using a microwave.
January 6, 2014 at 1:19 am #802535
VBDParticipantNo apology necessary, Sue. I appreciate your acknowledgement, and that you introduced a angle that interests me.
I have a habit of aggressively jumping on topics that I feel would benefit another point of view. Not everybody agrees my contributions are welcome, but I try to at least be civil in my response. Hopefully I can keep myself from looking like a jerk…. at least sometimes…
I’m relatively new to this blog, and what I really like about the community here is that people have a lot of varying opinions and passion, yet remain largely civil and polite.
January 6, 2014 at 2:45 am #802536
PangolinPieParticipantWhat VBD said. Sorry if any of my comments came across as arrogant or snippy.
January 6, 2014 at 3:25 am #802537
amaliaParticipantOMG, really? How can ANYONE think this “Dr Emoto” is anything but a fraud – at best?! “Water crystals”??! Assigned human feelings, no less!
.
Someone(s) failed remedial physics!
Well, good for a laugh.
January 6, 2014 at 4:52 am #802538
amaliaParticipantAnd just so no one thinks I’m insulting them, I think it’s totally justified to wonder about microwaves. I only put plastic in them when I’m feeling particularly lazy.
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