there is a health issue at Nickelsville

[Talaki34]

One of the biggest problems NV has is that they are still in a sustaining mode and are not making any shift to forward movement.

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[JanS]

Thanks for the headsup, Charla

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[Genesee Hill]

Bums have been around far longer than I have.

They are bums. Looking for a hand-out. Nothing wrong with that. Eventually they get the “bums’ rush”.

I think that is what is happening here. The bums are getting the bums’ rush outta here.

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[JoB]

DBP… Super-helping as an addiction… hmmm

is that really your considered opinion?

i am guessing you don’t go for all of that measure of a people is how they treat the least among them stuff…

hammerhead… it’s more likely that the lack of an address or inability to reliably contact applicants or lack of proper identification or criminal histories or inability to pass the old P test are reasons for being unable to find a job than tattoos, piercings or hair color.

sleep deprivation and lack of adequate nutrition and medical care combined with being a walking target for any kind of harassment are likely to be the reasons jobs are hard to keep once found.

but hey.. they are all bums.. throw them… where?

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[Genesee Hill]

JoB:

Nobody has to throw the bums anywhere.

They will find a temporary home. Leeching on those who pity them, cry for them, and care for them.

Then, it will be obvious to darn near everyone, they are bums.

And they will move on.

To the next group of suckers.

Forever….

Goodbye, to the bums who call their latest village “Nickelsville”.

I am sure you will clean up after yourselves. ROFL.

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[JoB]

Genesee Hill..

even bums need to be fed

and i have met more than a few at Nickelsville

i have met people who would benefit greatly from in-house care… somewhere where medication and services would be regular

but i have also met people who are just plain down on their luck

and don’t fit the template for overnight or even temporary shelter

some make it out and regain their footing..

no matter how fragile

some don’t

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[JanS]

But they’re all bums..sub human, if you will. We should just leave them to their own devices, and ship them out on rail. We treat dogs better :(

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[Jiggers]

Hey Jan, I think a kinder word would be “deadbeat.”

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[JoB]

I am not sure a kinder word is the point

the point is that they aren’t all the same..

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[hammerhead]

@Jan I love you to death, but no sadly 4 legged animals are treated WAY worse then the 2 legged human ones at NV.

We are going to specifically talk about the NV peeps, ok.

While we all know it is NOT perfect, they have a tent or some type of shelter, food, and I do know for a FACT, while again not perfect they do have some access to medical care even if it is Harbor View.

Animals: some have NONE of that. starved to death, or emaciated, tied up on a chain, NO shelter, abused and I can go on. Again the humans do have choices and services, animals well they just have a us rescuers who can only hope to find/help them in time.

So comparing NV people to how animals are being treated is apples to oranges.

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[JoB]

hammerhead..

many people post pictures of abandoned animals to inspire sympathy and elicit assistance for all animals.

it’s only within the last few months that one poster on facebook has been able to find a way to do the same thing with the homeless. (Homeless in Seattle)

I can understand that your heart responds to the plight of animals more than that of people…

who can or should choose what our heart’s respond to?

Jans has a point…

If Nickelsville were a shelter for animals instead of one for people, we would find the conditions intolerable and shut it down immediately,

in a fundamental way we are all concerned with the same thing

homelessness is the issue..

whether we are dealing with people or pets..

we don’t have to choose one over the other

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[hammerhead]

But the homeless people are not “being mistreated” they just have no place to go.

NO the shelter would just kill the animals. BIG difference.

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[JoB]

hammerhead..

homeless people do get mistreated, especially women.

think about how much security your locked door gives you and what might happen if you didn’t have it.

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[hammerhead]

um single women here I was robbed twice in 5 days last year. So in some ways i am no safer. (and I have dogs)

As for the women are they being raped or beaten or something? I have of course have not heard anything about that. If that is the case then criminal charges need to be filed. I am mostly just hearing about drugs and I am seeing that myself.

I guess “mistreated” will depend on your definition and mine.

Animals being mistreated: beaten, starved to death, sitting in their feces, ect

This is NOT happening to the people at NV.

NV being “mistreated”: no place to go when they are evicted, as many have stated they will just go up into the woods. They have food and port a potties.

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[JoB]

hammerhead..

reports are filed but charges are often easier to come by if you seem to be a credible witness.

unfortunately, credibility is in the eye of the beholder.

everyone seems to think homeless people should just move on…

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[Jiggers]

? I wonder what the average length stay is at NV? Are there folks who have been at the camp since they were allowed to move onto the site and still camping there?

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[Talaki34]

NV is not working because nothing changes except some of the faces. Every resource provided from the outside is for keeping them going from one calamity to the next. People who have done crisis intervention know that you have to move beyond just dealing with immediate needs and events. This often means tough choices.

To move beyond crisis intervention the classification of individuals who are homeless has to happen. It must be determined who wants to be helped with services (Then subcategorized into what type of services) and those who don’t want any help/prefer living on the fringes of society. Once this happens, things can begin to change.

Plans can begin to be formulated for housing, education, medical care and mental health services. Communities can effectively channel their resources to those that can best benefit from their time and money. Police, Fire, other city services and the Feds (Veterans) can better assist those that want the help.

Grouping all homeless people together is such a disservice to those who want to get out. I personally feel that in an effort to be politically correct we are undermining the very people we profess we want to help. As hard as it is we have to stop spending time, money and resources on those that cannot benefit and move it to those that can.

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[JoB]

Talakai34

You are right.. at least to some extent..

i can still make a case in my heart for making sure even the hardcore drunks and druggies are fed…

but the current management of nickelsville strongly discourages the kinds of services you are talking about that allow people to move on…

citizen volunteers have been incredibly effective at mentoring individuals from Nickelsville and walking beside them as they work their way through services and into a strong desire for a more normal life.

The transition isn’t easy and you have to really want it to happen to succeed.. even temporarily.

the way Nickelsville is set up now there are a lot of wasted resources.. many flowing through the front door.. into an individuals tent and then into the dumpster the day they are required to vacate camp.

you are right that there has to be a better way..

but there is one thing that nickelsville does well..

it provides stability for those who can stay under the radar and stay in camp long enough for them to be able to access the services from other agencies that will help set them on their own personal path to a more reliable stability.

i know the “best” advice is to lave it to the experts…

but i can tell you that our litte band of citizen volunteers has a long term success rate at helping people move towards stability that would be the envy of most social service agencies… and we are the first to admit that we couldn’t do it without the services those agencies provide..

this problem is large enough to have room for as many solutions as there are individuals willing to invest in them.

what looks like a waste of resources to you looks like an investment to me.

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[DBP]

Talaki I agree with what you say about homeless people needing to get together with someone so their needs can be sorted out and a recovery/housing plan can be worked out.

In fact, many people at Nickelsville have worked hard, taken advantage of City services and have gotten out of there. Some months ago I interviewed a couple who did just that and posted it here on the Blog. From the interview, it’s clear what a long and difficult process recovery can be . . .

https://westseattleblog.com/forum/topic/homeward-bound

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

If the City was running Nickelsville, or had an official presence there, they could do a much better job of facilitating people getting the services they need. However, since the City has no presence there, and since lately the City seems to be feuding with the camp “authorities” more than talking with them, it appears that Nickelsville is really not the best place for homeless people to get connected with the help they need.

In fact, I worry that there are some people there who WANT help but are actually PREVENTED from getting it by people in charge of the camp. Some months ago, one of the super-helpers related to me details of how the camp authorities actually intimidate campers into NOT seeking outside help. At first I thought that was just camp gossip, but now I believe her . . .

So, in that sense Nickelsville, as it is currently being managed, is not helping people. It is actually holding them back.

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[JoB]

this is like anything else

the more citizen/taxpayer eyes are on it..

the more likely it is that solutions are effective.

you don’t have to go to camp or become what DBP has labeled a super-helper to demand better access to services for the residents of Nickelsville.

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[DBP]

Jo, in theory you’re right.

But you’re too late.

Let’s not forget that hundreds of folks have already talked to the City on this issue. And some of us, folks like you and me, have contacted them several times.

Ironically, part of the problem is that the City has been getting mixed messages on Nickelsville. And that, in a way, has given them an excuse for dragging their feet on finding a solution. Depending on which news outlet you’re reading/watching, you might conclude that Nickelsville is (a) a democratic eco-village, a fun place for the whole family, or (b) a combination garbage dump and outdoor flophouse.

I was there myself two summers ago when camera crews were trotting around behind Council members as they interviewed happy campers and petted the goats.

I myself have posted many charming photos of the place, right on this here Blog.

And now we’re hearing that even the poh-LEECE are afraid to go in there!

We’re all suffering from a massive case of cognitive dissonance here: Our hearts tell us one story about the camp, but our experience tells us another.

* * * * * * * * * * *

Anyway, it’s not like the City hasn’t heard from enough people. They’ve heard plenty. It’s too late for a letter campaign to change anything now. The City is either gonna do the right thing and close down the camp (and that quick) or they’re gonna get sued.

And if that happens, there ain’t a goat in the world that’s cute enough to sooth Mr. Conlin’s troubled soul.

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[DBP]

Artwork by DBP

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[JoB]

DBP..

it is never too late to care.

all of this either/or my way/hiway throw the bums out talk makes viable solutions very difficult to come by…

but nothing is impossible.

escalating rhetoric may precipitate action

but it doesn’t create solutions

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[Jiggers]

I voted on a)DBP. It’s fun for the whole family. Where else can you learn how to camp and smoke crack all in one day? And you don’t need to obtain a camping license either. And they get fed too. Its all free!

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[JoB]

so much rhetoric

so little compassion

it’s Easter Weekend

and we are being granted a huge reprieve from winter

go outside

you will find trees blooming, spring bulbs filling the air with the sweet perfume that never fails to remind me of my grandmother and every sort of perennial pushing itself up out of the darkness and into the light.

this is happening in even the most neglected patches of ground

even at Nickelsville

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[Author]

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