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August 10, 2009 at 7:29 pm #674086
I’m witholding judgment too — I think there’s a very good possibility that the “final bill” will be reform that only helps big insurance, big pharma, and big hospita/devices. (The medical-industrial complex.)
I am not on the “anything is better than nothing,” side of this debate. “Reform” without a public option is worse* than nothing. Reform that emphasizes cost-cutting (and “tort reform”) is deadly. Both seem possible with this current crew of Republicans and Republicans masquerading as Democrats.August 11, 2009 at 2:09 am #674087
but i would still like to hope.August 11, 2009 at 4:27 am #674088
JoB, I’m the most hopeful pessimist you’ll ever know:-) I harbor hope, but I’m determined (this time) not to let my hope get in the way of common sense. I’m afraid we’ll put a happy face on a disastrous “reform” plan because we need it so badly.
Long ago, when this started, I said (cynically) that we’d get true universal health CARE when 51 percent of the population was uninsured. Now it appears that, once again, my cynicism was based in reality.August 11, 2009 at 8:22 am #674089
RubyRed1, You just proved the point of how many disenfranchised voters feel. You asked some questions and you were in a few instances “shouted down” and marginalized. That is a complaint I have heard the past 20 years or so. Isn’t that what some of the fuss is about at the moment? Wow, people (PAID OR NOT) speaking out! What amendment was that?
From 2001 – State Senator Barack Obama —” To that extent, as radical as I think people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn’t that radical. It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as its been interpreted and Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Says what the states can’t do to you. Says what the Federal government can’t do to you, but it doesn’t say what the Federal government or State government must do on your behalf, and that hasn’t shifted and one of the, I think, the tragedies of the civil rights movement was because the civil rights movement became so court focused I think there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalitions of powers through which you bring about redistributive change. In some ways we still suffer from that.”
umm … community organizing? coalitions? constraints? negative liberties?
And the office of the Prez wants people to email the white house on “questionable” people or statements. That is against the law really. Lobbyists, community organizers, it’s all the same and now he is telling a portion of the country not to do what he did.
Correct, no bill. Committees BUT remember IT WAS IMPERATIVE TO PASS THIS BY AUGUST which BHO stated, just like the Bush Stimulus, Omnibus Spending Bill, and Budget. The sprint is almost finished. Americans (sorry CharlaBob) are wanting the debate to slow down. Some are yelling very loudly. Some want it to pass, others want to kill it.
The Pro Government Insurance people were hoping to get this in place quickly and build on it. I can’t blame them. The problem is the other items I mentioned above may well cause this one to stall.
I am a bit concerned about the rhetoric coming out. I saw the SS sign on the Democrat commericial but Mrs. Pelosi’s Nazi reference certainly will not help her cause. Why do I get the feeling efforts by her to resurrect the Fairness Doctrine will be doubled?
I am finished with the partisanship. I have always felt that children and the retirees should have “free” health care and that all citizens who work should have to pay for it. I have also felt the rest of the people between 19 and 65 should pay for their own insurance unless they absolutely can’t. I would also have a Medicaid safety net for those who cannot afford medical procedures. We all have to pay some way and if there isn’t too much interference from the government then the cost should be better than a government option.
Bluebird. I have cut down my fat intake to just 3 visits to Mickey D’s to three visits per week. Thanks for your concern. I especially like the new Mushroom and Cheese Angus burger. ;-)
My goal is to be at Snap fitness at least one time more than my fast food ventures. Lets call it a draw at the moment.
Ken, for me Thank God the Progressive movement eventually gave up the militaristic platform. When McCain referenced Teddy Roosevelt, I shuddered. Not all that was done in the early years was bad but as you can tell, I am not a fan of the movement.August 11, 2009 at 1:55 pm #674090
Great story WSMom… what a piece of work. The stupidity of these people is astounding.August 11, 2009 at 2:42 pm #674091
Jon Stewart, the most trusted name in journalism.August 11, 2009 at 5:58 pm #674092
One of the things that has entered my mind through this discussion is that I bet not one of us has actually been to one of these rallies to see first hand what is going on. Everything that we feel about these protesters, pro and con, which includes HMC, me, Charlabob, etc, etc…only comes from what’s on the news – and it depends on the slant that the news that you watch gives it. Then the ideas that we already have kick in. HMC, you have no idea if these people are paid or not, nor do I. I have an inkling that some are totally misinformed when they go there (ref. the don’t take my Medicare away line) And I can bet there’s misinformation on both sides. What I see are signs that are not made by these people, but mass produced…someone has to be behind that. What I see is people who have no knowledge about what’s being discussed in health care reform, but do object to having a black man named Obama for president (doesn’t matter how good he might be)(ref. “birthers”). What I see is something that is getting out of hand..it’s not “this is what America is about, free speech, etc.” WhatI see is ugly, and an embarrassment to this country. What I see is ignorance. What I see is denial, heads buried in the sand. I don’t like what I see these days, and I wish it was different.
There is a town hall meeting on Wednesday night at Fauntleroy Hall. I am going to do everything I can to be there. I want to be more informed. I don’t want to get my information from just the interwebs. I would like for my neighbors to be there. We owe that to ourselves, don’t you think? Communication and discussion are good things, don’t you think? How else can we talk about this rationally? Education is everything , in my book.August 11, 2009 at 6:22 pm #674093
did you miss the part where a public option was not on the table.. was not even invited to the original meetings on health care reform?
Or was that unimportant in your rush to reiterate the conservative talking points about how Health Care Reform is is an attempt by the “Pro Government Insurance people” … “to get this in place quickly and build on it” … aka socialism?
perhaps it is better to drop the pretense of bipartisan .. because there is no bipartisan effort in that rhetoric.
health care reform isn’t just about the public option.. it’s about the incredible number of uninsured who are rising as quickly as the unemployment numbers…
when those people get sick.. someone is picking up the tab. That someone is everyone who is currently paying for health care.. whether insured or not.
Today i listened to a hospital administrator on NPR justify the $600 cost for a bag of saline administered by IV drip by pointing out that every procedure has to factor in the overall cost of maintaining the hospital facility and covering it’s costs.
What do you think a bag of saline really costs?
His was a non-profit facility.. so they didn’t have to factor in the overall profit of the facility into every IV bag of saline administered… but that’s ok because profit is added into the costs when your insurance company calculates it’s rates…
Health Care costs are the number one cause of bankruptcy int he United States.. not bad mortgages or gambling debts or drug use or poor investments or …
Do you think maybe you pay for that too in the interest rates and fees levied by lending institutions?
There is no question that there is a need for health care reform.. the question is whether the reform will benefit insurance companies or the average American more.
Without the public option added in.. and even with it if the lobbyists get their way.. the clear winner will be the insurance companies.
Is that really what you want?
If not, you should be invested in real conversation.. not warring protests…
These town hall meetings are supposed to be about health care.. not about whose party is the big dog in the room.
Tell me how anyone has a chance to be heard over the kind of demonstrations that have been orchestrated by the conservative right? When the demonstration turns to violence and protesters end up hospitalized for injuries it stops being a laughing matter.
What exactly are the groups currently disrupting the town hall meetings afraid of?
Because someone is deathly afraid of something when they will go so far as to fund public mayhem to prevent citizen input.
Shall we move on to the subject of free speech now.. and the current attempt of one group to deny all others their right to free speech?
enough already… when do the grownups show up?August 12, 2009 at 7:37 pm #674094
I’ll see the rest of you at Fauntleroy Hall tonight. Meanwhile, there are record amounts of lobbying dollars being spent on fighting health care reform – hence all the outrageous emails and misrepresentations of issues.
If you’re trying to figure out truth from fiction, check out a reputable fact checker.
Here’s Politifact’s health care page:
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